You guys/gals wana fight? (computer systems)

[ShutteringFocus]

Alright...so here's the skinny

I'm headed of to college next year, so I'm going to get me a lap-top before I go. Question is...which one?

Mac? PC?

now, a few years ago I would have said Mac hands down. But now...I don’t know. All of the programs I have now are run on PC because that’s what my home computer is.

The one program that can go on the PC that I would want would be Final Cut Pro for editing slideshows/videos.

Anybody want to duke it out over the pros and cons, Mac vs. PC systems as far as being "photo/video machines" goes?

[boomerang]

Your lucky because there is no reason to not get a MAC.
They are the most stable and hard working system on the market. I worked with PCs for years made the switch 2 years ago and wish I had done it way before!

Never have a system crash or freeze, I handle volumes of video and photos with ease.

Go spend some time in a MAC store and you will be hooked! Apple is more than a system it is a small community.

Also wait till after NAB(next week) and see if any new hardware is going to be released.

[UncleDoug]

My vote is for Mac.

We have 12'' and 15'' powerbooks. Indespensibe in the field.
Solid & stable, can handle a drop to concrete from 5'(personal experience)
OS X works well with the brains of photographers and creative pros.

If you load the beast with FCP, ACS and Macromedia products you are right there with the "big boys" in the industry.

[Barb42]

Check with your college of choice first. They may have a purchasing program (saving money is good) or a requirement to purchase what they have on hand as part of the tuition, or perhaps to meet a standard. If they don't care, all depends on what you plan to study and where.

[And I have known people who had crashes with MAC's. No computer system is perfect and all have problems and advantages. Just be sure you are familiar with the type of system you want to use. Forget the MAC vs PC fight - its so 20th century!]

If you are going into business or science, think seriously about a PC and the primary Windows products. Nothing worse than working with some idiot who can't function in MS Office once they hit the corporate world. You will need to be at ease in MS Word, Excel, and Powerpoint. And MS Access is a plus because it will prepare you for databases - not designing DBs, but functioning in it, and finding basic information. If you want to succeed, its about being at ease with the tools of the trade. Even in the art field, understanding the tools of communication and business is a must. If you haven't had a keyboarding class, sign up for one. Idiots who can't type are worse than idiots who can't work in the basic programs.

Its about what happens after college, and that depends on what you do in college.

Good Luck -

[UncleDoug]

If you are going into business or science, think seriously about a PC and the primary Windows products. Nothing worse than working with some idiot who can't function in MS Office once they hit the corporate world. You will need to be at ease in MS Word, Excel, and Powerpoint. And MS Access is a plus because it will prepare you for databases - not designing DBs, but functioning in it, and finding basic information. If you want to succeed, its about being at ease with the tools of the trade. Even in the art field, understanding the tools of communication and business is a must. If you haven't had a keyboarding class, sign up for one. Idiots who can't type are worse than idiots who can't work in the basic programs.


Just got MS Office 2004 for Mac. Have been using Office for Mac for quite some time.
So this is taken out of the equasion.

[KevC]

Ya know... if you love the mac you could always dual boot linux and windows. XP is a pretty darn sturdy OS. And OSX is unix based anyway so you can use linux to get the stability and power you'd get from a mac.

Also, with the new 64bit processors you can take advantage of that using a 64bit distro of linux and a XP64 when it is finalised.

[thomasrhee]

I've been a devoted Mac user since 1984 (bought the very first 128k model). So, the Mac evangelist in me says, go with a Mac, especially if it's for personal use. Reasons are:

- MUCH more stable & robust OS
- Access to thousands of software titles. Lack of software is not an issue.
- MUCH less prone to virus and security issues
- More reliable hardware (my opinion & experience from having owned several WinPC's)
- Mac platform, still the industry standard in graphics & video editing
- Better overall user interface

However, having said all that, you also need to think about your future use with computers as mentioned by Barb42. It's a fact of life that Windows dominates the PC market with over 90% market share. If you're planning to study computer science/IT, it would make sense to buy a PC because the Mac IT market is a speck of dust on a football field by comparison. Same holds true for the mass corporate market. Also, you have to consider if a Mac will fit in with your useage in school. When I was a student at Boston University and Parsons School of Design, Macs were everywhere so it was no problem for me to use a Mac.

Even if you decide to go with a Mac, in today's job market, you really need to be familiar with the Windows environment as well.

[PJ Saine]

Alright...so here's the skinny

I'm headed of to college next year, so I'm going to get me a lap-top before I go. Question is...which one?

Confirmed Mac User here - with 2 daughters who went off to college with Macs five (U of Iowa) and three (Ithaca College) years ago. My perspective?

1. Mac are cooler.
2. Non-creative personalities bring PCs to school.
3. It doesn't matter so much what you choose because whatever you buy will be 'obsolete' (ready for replacement) in 4 years when you are through with your degree.
4. Buy a really big hard drive because music files will fill it up.
5. Ask for an iPod also....

Pat
www.pjsaine.com

[Anteros]

Honestly, it really doesn't matter these days unless you want to play games. Almost all of the programs you could ever need are available for both.

It's all about personal preference. Try out MacOS or Windows (or Linux/BSD if that's your style) and see which one suits your needs the most and forget most of the evangelizing. It's like choosing a camera - what one person considers a major annoyance, another person considers a feature.

[markubig]

Hey, can a mac and PC co-exist on the same home wireless network? Would picture formats be easily exchanged between the two platorms? In other words, can I edit a JPEG on a PC and and then open and edit it again on a MAC and vice-versa?

[Barb42]

What I was talking about was being comfortable with the windows world. In business, especially IT, you have to do a lot on your own and a firm knowledge of PC/windows world is a huge help. I really don't care if you like MAC or PC, but I have found that people who only know MAC are lost in the corporate world - outside of the advertising department. I consider myself an artist and a corporate personality as well, so MACs are not only for "creative" types. That concept is just an old culturalism that goes back aways. Most of the fine art photographers I know choose PC but a number also use MACs . Its usually just what you are familar with....do what you want but be sure you have a broad view of the whole computer knowledge thing. You don't want to be limited when the whole world is in front you.

Ah, if I could just do it all over again.....but, then, I probably be just as stupid. ~sigh

[UncleDoug]

Hey, can a mac and PC co-exist on the same home wireless network? Would picture formats be easily exchanged between the two platorms? In other words, can I edit a JPEG on a PC and and then open and edit it again on a MAC and vice-versa?

Wireless, not to sure.
But we have a LAN with 6 Macs and 2 PC's.
Doing what you are talking abut is not an issue.
PC seems to have some issues with Mac files on occasion.
Mac has no problems opening PC files.

[jimsolt]

Am I somehow missing the discussion about post processing and printing?
Jim

[UncleDoug]

What I was talking about was being comfortable with the windows world. In business, especially IT, you have to do a lot on your own and a firm knowledge of PC/windows world is a huge help. I really don't care if you like MAC or PC, but I have found that people who only know MAC are lost in the corporate world - outside of the advertising department.

In the IT world I agree completely, since the majority of servers out there are running on MS/UNIX software, not OS X.
But on the non-IT side there are differences between PC OS and Mac OS but the line is heavily blurred these days. Jumping back & forth between them is a snap, or moving from one OS to the other.
Hey, if my parents can handle the move, from PC to Mac for my dad and Mac to PC for my mom(they have both) this should not be an issue for the tech savy yougsters outhere.

[UncleDoug]

Am I somehow missing the discussion about post processing and printing?
Jim

If you don't have a computer you can't postporcess...... :)

[rssfhs]

Cigarettes, TVs and those boring PCs are forbidden in my house!

[Steven M. Anthony]

Your lucky because there is no reason to not get a MAC.
They are the most stable and hard working system on the market. I worked with PCs for years made the switch 2 years ago and wish I had done it way before!

Never have a system crash or freeze, I handle volumes of video and photos with ease.

Go spend some time in a MAC store and you will be hooked! Apple is more than a system it is a small community.

Also wait till after NAB(next week) and see if any new hardware is going to be released.

I've used both. Now I use a PC/laptop with Windows XP (NOT service pack 2 "enabled!"). With Windows Me, I had to reboot 3 or 4 times a day. With my Sony laptop and XP, which I've had since Fall 2002, I've had to re-boot 3 times. Maybe the Mac is more stable than that--but if so, it's not by a huge factor.

If you want the "Comunity" then sure, go for Mac (although, I guess while PC users are a community as well, we just see ourselves as "people who use a PC!"). But know that with a "small" community comes potential limitations on software.

But like I said, I've used macs over the years and they are fine (and stylishly designed) machines. I landed with a PC laptop for price and size issues (I travel a ton and my Sony weighs less than 3 pounds!). I don't think you can really go wrong with either.

[NEC1236]

Who drank all the Kool-aid, I looked in the MAC pitcher and it was all gone with a note left to make more. I looked in the the Win-tel "PC" pitcher and it was all gone also, the note left in the PC pitcher said you better make more or you won't survive. Then I looked in the linux jug and a penguin looked up and hiccup'ed. oh well I guess I am not getting my math done tonight.

MAC OS = Creative
MS OS = Management / BA
Linux = IT / Programmer

under all OS'sssss is a math marvel. Got that math done yet?

[PJ Saine]

Hey, can a mac and PC co-exist on the same home wireless network? Would picture formats be easily exchanged between the two platorms? In other words, can I edit a JPEG on a PC and and then open and edit it again on a MAC and vice-versa?


No problem in all conditions described above.

PJ
www.pjsaine.com

[markubig]

so in terms of "photoediting" , does MAC offer better options than PC? isn't photoshop just photoshop?

[Pelao]

Hi
For day to day use there is little difference now.

I work with both, in a mixed Windows / Mac environment. We don't have any issues with networking, wireless or wired. The WIN machines require a few more steps to set up.

I think the days of seeing Macs as more for the creative side of business are long gone. Our sales team and Execs have the choice, and either works well. More and more are choosing Macs because they find them easier to configure and maintain.

As I see it, the Macs require less management to keep them stable and working well.

My suggestion is to buy the smallest yet most fully featured machine you can afford, then purchase a nice LCD. This maximizes mobility between classes / library / Starbucks, but gives acres of nice screen when back at base. A pound of extra weight might not sound like much now, but your campus may be large, and you will be carrying books etc too. Invest in a backpack designed for laptops.

Get the largest hard drive available.

Please invest in an external hard drive and good backup software. Backup daily. Your computer will be a target for thieves, and by their nature laptops take more abuse and therefore experience more failures. If you have a backup all is not lost. These hard drives are very cheap these days.

[the7ferret]

My next computer will be a Mac.
the only reason I have a PC was from video games but now Mac are starting to get good games.

[Avalonthas]

Mac is great because its stable, but simply put, they are to expensive for what you get. Not the most powerful of machines for the cost, they just look flashy. Also with XP Pro, good hardware and if ur not in pornography, any new PC is pretty stable and reliable if u know how to use it correctly. Also software for mac is expensive, hard to find, and very poor third party support. Open source stuff is pretty weak too, so i would go with PC, especially since college is expensive, and it will save u alot.

[ScottE]

I use a PC because some of the business programs I use only run on that platform. If I didn't have to use those programs I would be indifferent between PC or Mac.

[chris.bailey]

I just bought my wife a widescreen Sony Vaio and that has just about got to be the most sexy piece of electronics ever and the screen is superb and even she has not yet managed to crash it.

[Goofup]

Then there's the other side....

I was a die-hard Mac fanatic for 10 years, proud that I had the "best computer on the market". I struggled all that time being an "outcast" using the "other" computer. I gave up when Windows came out and never looked back. We have about 400 computers running XP Pro at work, on 24/7. I personally haven't had to reboot mine in over 6 months. And my home machines haven't crashed in years.

The "trick" with a Win computer is to get a name brand that uses standard componets (to avoid conflicts), then keep it updated with MS auto update. Then you won't have any problems with "stability".

A friend of mine builds his own with the "best" (but way off-brand) parts, then spends weeks trying to get them all working together. He's also a Linux nut, and it took him months to get it working- not to mention learning how to use it.

Sorry, my vote is to get a PC. The fact is that it's a PC world out there, You don't have to use a Mac, but you will have to use a PC.

(PS: I have a Sony Vaio also- RZ22G w/ 17" LCD. Love it!!!)

[gaza]

Alright...so here's the skinny


Mac? PC?

The one program that can go on the PC that I would want would be Final Cut Pro for editing slideshows/videos.


This is the salient point, its the software that you should consider first, then get the hardware that runs it.

Gaz

[NEC1236]

Okay, so the question is? What Operating System runs Final Cut Pro the best?
And or what COMPUTER (video card, RAM, Mother board, Chip...) runs Final Cut Pro the best?

[Homer]

NEC
As far as I know, Final Cut Pro is only available for the Apple platform. Best computer for it would be the 2.5 GHz Dual Processor, 8GB RAM and a nice 30" Apple display.
As for the Apple and Windows debate, both are fine, I have an Apple Powermac and Powerbook at home and use PCs at work. They both have advantages and disadvantages. I personally don't find the Macs anymore stable than Windows.. actually my Macs probably crash more regularly than the PC I use.

[Doom1701e]

PC. Nuff said. ;)

[NickC]

MAC = Media access control or MAC address, a unique hex address that is on every networking module such as ethernet cards, wireless cards, Bluetooth modules, etc.

Mac = Macintosh

I don't know why people seem to want to use "MAC" for "Mac" -- even Mac users do it. Weird. I mean, you don't spell it MACINTOSH with capitals -- if so, then MAC would be correct. But it isn't.

Nitpicking over. :)

[UncleDoug]

MAC = Media access control or MAC address, a unique hex address that is on every networking module such as ethernet cards, wireless cards, Bluetooth modules, etc.

Mac = Macintosh

I don't know why people seem to want to use "MAC" for "Mac" -- even Mac users do it. Weird. I mean, you don't spell it MACINTOSH with capitals -- if so, then MAC would be correct. But it isn't.

Nitpicking over. :)

BIG MAC.... :D

A bit hungry, no lunch.

[NEC1236]

ShutteringFocus seeing how you you requested to be able to use Final Cut Pro

Final Cut Studio System Requirements
Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G4 (867MHz or faster) or G5 processor; HD features require 1GHz or faster single or dual processor; authoring of HD DVDs requires a PowerPC G5 processor.
512MB of physical RAM; HD features require 1GB of RAM or more (2GB recommended)
Mac OS X v10.3.9 or Mac OS X v10.4 (or later); Core Image Units and 16- and 32-bit float rendering in Motion 2 require Mac OS X v10.4 or later
Display with at least 1024 x 768 resolution
QuickTime 7 (or later)
DVD drive required for installation
DLT drive required for replication of DVDs authored in DVD Studio Pro 4
AGP Quartz Extreme graphics card
Motion 2 requires the standard graphics card found on any Power Mac G5 or iMac G5, a 1.25GHz or faster PowerBook G4 or a 1.25GHz or faster flat-panel iMac. Any of the following graphics cards is highly recommended: NVIDIA GeForce FX 6800 Ultra DDL, NVIDIA GeForce FX 6800 GT DDL (NV40), ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (RV M11), ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (R350) or ATI Radeon 9800 XT (R360).
4GB of disk space required to install all applications; additional 41GB required to install all optional templates, loops, content and tutorials (may be installed on separate disks)
Playback of HD DVDs authored in DVD Studio Pro 4 requires a PowerPC G5 processor, Mac OS X v10.4 and Apple DVD Player 4.6 (or later)

not avail. for PC that I can see.
thanks Homer

dude you gotta get a mac.

[UncleDoug]

Another thing to consider if you are a photographer or someone who will be dealing with images from other people and sending images to others....

Mac's will open just about any file, regardless of the extension(.tif, .bmp, etc..)
PC's will NOT. If you do not have the extension at the end, just adding the extension to the file name will not work, you can not open the file.

Spent, no wasted, alot of time dealing with this yesterday.

[Avalonthas]

Another thing to consider if you are a photographer or someone who will be dealing with images from other people and sending images to others....

Mac's will open just about any file, regardless of the extension(.tif, .bmp, etc..)
PC's will NOT. If you do not have the extension at the end, just adding the extension to the file name will not work, you can not open the file.

Spent, no wasted, alot of time dealing with this yesterday.

changing the extension on a PC will work, u just have to have program(s) that support it. The mac is basically a media computer so the software that comes preinstalled has just about every extension available supported by the programs, which is the only reason mac opens them all. Not the operating system persay, its more of a software issue. Because mac regulates most of the stuff that comes or can be installed on there systems, they make sure there is alot of support. For PC it is different since there is hundreds of companies making them, with all sorts of compatibilites, software packages etc, and most of all, a huge amount of third party software which adds more and more extensions. So the lack of regulation forces computer makers or programmers to only support the more popular extensions.

[UncleDoug]

changing the extension on a PC will work, u just have to have program(s) that support it. The mac is basically a media computer so the software that comes preinstalled has just about every extension available supported by the programs, which is the only reason mac opens them all. Not the operating system persay, its more of a software issue. Because mac regulates most of the stuff that comes or can be installed on there systems, they make sure there is alot of support. For PC it is different since there is hundreds of companies making them, with all sorts of compatibilites, software packages etc, and most of all, a huge amount of third party software which adds more and more extensions. So the lack of regulation forces computer makers or programmers to only support the more popular extensions.

I think you might have misinterpreted or misunderstood what I was saying...

Why will PSCS on my Mac open ANY tiff file, with or without the extension, regardless of image creator and a PC running PSCS will not? Same program...different results...

Just changing or adding the extension, i.e. the file name, did not work for 2 clients of mine....so I opened the image, saved as so the ".tif" would be attached via PS and they worked fine.....

One would think that due to the plethora of apps for the PC that there would be some conscious effort made to increase the compatability and flexibility of programs with various file types, since there are more variables out there in the PC world.
Especially Photoshop..... Or is this an OS related quirk of the PC environment?

[CyberDyneSystems]

Quirk,..

You simply need to have a file extension ( ie: a ".tif" or ".jpg" ) for the PC to know what program to use to open a given file.

All files in the PC eveironment have a three or somtimes four letter file extension.
Unfortunately in MS' infinite wisdom,. with Win95 they decided that file extensions,. though still absolutley necessary,. were ugly. So they decided that by default,. they should be hidden from the user ???!!

There still there,. just not visible on most PCs

One of the first things any PC owner should do with a new system is be sure to change this default so that you can see what file type you are dealing with at all times.

[Canonfanatic]

HI to you all.
Markubig asked above if PC's and Macs can co-exist on a wireless platform.
I run a mixed network at home. I have two Windows machines, a desktop and a laptop, and also two Mac machines, a desktop G4 and an old black powerbook. The Macs run OS X and the PC's run Win XP. All are connected over a Wi-Fi network and all work together well. Having said that, I had a heck of a job to get the PC's to "see" the Macs but eventually I worked it out. I found that books on PC's and books on Macs tended to avoid the detail of exactly how to link them, so I had to spend a lot of time working it out for myself. Don't bother asking knowledgeable friends about it-not many people know anything about mixed networks!
I found that the PC's would only "see" two folders on the Mac machines-the Shared folder and the Public folder. This is I believe designed in by Apple as a security feature. Eventually I found a small program, Sharepoints from www.hornware.com/sharepoints which allowed the PC's to "see" whatever folder I specified on the Macs. All I need now is a little program that converts the icons of my images on the Macs to thumbnails!
My Mac desktop is a dual 1.42 GHZ PowerPC with 2 GB of RAM and, although I haven't run any timimgs,it appears to run rings around my desktop PC which is an Athlon 64 3000+ with 2.5 GB of RAM. The desktop PC is always causing me trouble, but I can honestly say I have never had either of the Macs cause me any problems such as crashing, etc. Why do I still run Windows machines? I review programs which often run only on a PC. Otherwise I would be tempted to go Mac only.

[TonyKInTexas]

The value Apple has added to their flavor of Unix is unmistakeable. Having used Linux in various distributions (Slackware, Mandrake and SuSE) I would not try to convince an ordinary user to switch to Linux. Setting up a Mac is easy. Depending on the distro of Linux you get, you could be in for a nightmare.

WinXP Pro is very stable. XP Home I avoide because it lacks some features/utilities that I need/like. Having used Windows continously since V3 and having dabbled with v2.1 I would say I have some experience with the issues the OS has. I avoided WinME and my systems have been very stable even though I am a programmer and at one time a gamer.

With Virtual PC 7 for the Mac, you could run the Windows programs you want (yes it would be slower than native programs) while you transition from Windows to Mac.

I use XP Pro at home and 2003 Server at work. My wife is thinking of getting a Mac after Tiger is released and stabelized. That is why I some info regarding Macs.

Take care,