MOB wants control of image use after wedding

[cory1848]

First time I have run into this. In my contract the model release states that I can use photos taken at the wedding for basically any purpose I choose.

MODEL RELEASE: THE CLIENT hereby assigns and grants Fixed Focus Photography and its legal representatives the irrevocable and unrestricted right to use and publish photographs of THE CLIENT or in which THE CLIENT may be included, for editorial, trade, advertising or any other purpose and in any manner and medium; to alter the same without restriction; and to copyright the same. THE CLIENT hereby releases Fixed Focus Photography and its legal representatives and assigns from all claims and liability relating to said photographs. It is agreed that Fixed Focus Photography may display and use the photographs taken for advertising, display, website and internet promotion, photographic contests, public display such as in malls, photography books, photography instructional books, store fronts, window displays, studio display, television advertising, magazine advertising and any other purpose thought proper by Fixed Focus Photography.


Pretty standard boilerplate clause. I am dealing with the mother of the bride with the contract (she is paying), and she is requesting that I do not use photos for public usage. I guess she is concerned that unflattering photos will be posted online for all to see.
I can see their point to a degree but I tried asking in a round about way how we would use any photo that would not be the best in portraying their wedding. Think there is more to it but didnt want to dig.

So in short, if I let them have what they want, I do not get to use the photos for promo which in essence is like giving up full rights. I will not give up full rights and for the amount we are charging, not having these for promo usage would make me rethink taking this job on. I am open to allowing her to pick photos but not sure if that is a good idea.

I dont plan of using any photos on any billboards but my clause states I have that ability. How can I reword my clause into something that would be ok with her?

I want to be able to use photos for promotion online and print. If I have that perfect shot, I want the option of being able to enter that into a competition as well. Not sure how to word the clause into allowing for that with restricting other areas.

Have any of you run into this situation before?

[tim]

If it's deal breaker for you decline the job. Personally I don't mind adding a "no public exhibition without permission from customer" type clause, it means I get the job and I still get paid. I have enough weddings in my portfolio, it's only really an issue for newbs.

[cory1848]

I just dont like the idea of not being able to control my own work...having someone else say I cant do this or cant do that with it. Still on the fence....

[tim]

Turn it down then. It would only be an issue for me if I really wanted the venue or couple in my portfolio.

[deletedpenguin]

Just curious - as a photographer, why would you put 'unflattering photos' in your portfolio (or elsewhere) with your name attached to it.

If the subject or photos don't live up to her standards, would it to yours? I'm not sure how you'd say that to the client...but yeah.

[cory1848]

Just curious - as a photographer, why would you put 'unflattering photos' in your portfolio (or elsewhere) with your name attached to it.

If the subject or photos don't live up to her standards, would it to yours? I'm not sure how you'd say that to the client...but yeah.

Thats what I thought and I tried to convey that to her. I do realize that opinions can differ and something I think is a killer shot, they may think its the worst thing ever.

[Karl Johnston]

Try negotiating the contract in this specific case with her. Shoot the wedding, ask for further permission on which shots are okay to use and which aren't.

I just re-read your claus...kind of odd question but would that mean you could sell the wedding photographs you take as stock ?

Another thing I read was photographic contests...there are a lot of contests out there that strip your copyright and hand it over to the sponsor of the contest (not sure if you're aware of that) just by submission; not always if it wins or not.

I can more see where the MOB is coming from if she's concerned if an unflattering shot of her daughter's wedding could be used for X-reason for Y-company in Z-country.

I have it written in my T&A as an optional permission
"Check here if it okay for (me) to use your images taken at (this place) (on this date) for advertising promotion of myself and my studio on an unrestricted, unlimited ...blah blah"
and
"Check here if it is okay for (me) to use your images taken at (this place on this date) to sell commercially or transfer copyright"

[Mark1]

Just curious....Do you really NEED every job to promote yourself?--keep in mind I have no idea on your standing-- Or is it you just WANT to POSSABLY use them as promo. Definatley paying the rent is better then possably having a shot to use. If you are at the point that you only want the shots, I would just let it slide and do the shoot. However if you need the promo, I would pass on hopes you get a gig that will allow you what you want. Lesson learned for next time.... Bump the price up a bit. Then offer a discount for the ability to use that shots. Customers LOVE discounts.

[cory1848]

Well all seems to be good now. I emailed her back with a compromise, I pick up to 25 images that she gets to approve for promo stuff. I never use more than that anyways so its works out. She was happy with that and grateful for working with her on it.

[deletedpenguin]

Glad to hear it all worked out.

[The Moose]

If it's deal breaker for you decline the job. Personally I don't mind adding a "no public exhibition without permission from customer" type clause, it means I get the job and I still get paid. I have enough weddings in my portfolio, it's only really an issue for newbs.

If you shot a wedding which had that clause in the contract and a photo you took at that wedding turned out to be your favourite shot that you've taken, would you honour that clause or would you call them and ask if you could use it, despite what was agreed?

[rottface4]

Maybe you could try to negotiate the contract so that photog has right to use X amount of photos for promo purposes. Where the MOB has selects the X amount from an sampling the photog presents. This way you get to use some of the photos for promo and she has to select some for that use.

[cory1848]

Maybe you could try to negotiate the contract so that photog has right to use X amount of photos for promo purposes. Where the MOB has selects the X amount from an sampling the photog presents. This way you get to use some of the photos for promo and she has to select some for that use.


That is exactly what I did and she agreed to it. I have no problem with that at all.

[tim]

If you shot a wedding which had that clause in the contract and a photo you took at that wedding turned out to be your favourite shot that you've taken, would you honour that clause or would you call them and ask if you could use it, despite what was agreed?

I'd ask nicely. Fortunately I don't have to deal with the MOB, my contract specifies that my customers are the B&G regardless of who pays the fee, and I require the person paying for the photography to sign the contract.

[PeaceFire]

Interesting topic. I have to say that I'm on your side. Not only as a photographer, but as a recent bride during my personal photography search I blog stalk like crazy. The best advertisement most photographers can have is their blogs and having the ability to update them frequently. Because of computer issues I haven't been able to update mine since March and my request for jobs has plummeted. Could be coincidence, or it could be that people are actually paying attention to it. It seems like everytime I update I get 5 jobs from people who saw the most recent update and comment on it.

[cory1848]

I'd ask nicely. Fortunately I don't have to deal with the MOB, my contract specifies that my customers are the B&G regardless of who pays the fee, and I require the person paying for the photography to sign the contract.

I currently dont have this as a requirement in my contract, however, the more I read into it, I am thinking I should. How do you deal with couples that are far away? My last three weddings, the MOB has made the arrangements and paid, but the MOB was local and the B&Gs were out of state getting married locally.

In a case like this, do you pass the contract around to get all the sigs? Should I have the B&G sign it at the ceremony?

[tim]

I always meet the couple before their wedding day, they can sign the contract then. Since the MOB has already signed it to agree the B&G are my customers it doesn't much matter.

[pigtailpat]

I'm not a pro, but I deal with the public in other areas, and believe me, this mother sounds like trouble and I would walk away fast. Even if you work out some compromise with her, I think she's trouble and you'll come to regret taking the job.

[cory1848]

I'm not a pro, but I deal with the public in other areas, and believe me, this mother sounds like trouble and I would walk away fast. Even if you work out some compromise with her, I think she's trouble and you'll come to regret taking the job.

I dont get that feeling at all. She posed a question that I havent run into yet so I wanted other peoples take on it. She just seems like she is really thorough.

[jblaschke]

I just dont like the idea of not being able to control my own work...having someone else say I cant do this or cant do that with it. Still on the fence....

True, but you can add a premium surcharge for the privilege of exclusivity. Put the ball in their court--are they willing to pony up an extra $500? Why should they get additional consideration from you (and you are giving up significant rights here) while you still face the risk that they'll scan and print their own copies of the prints rather than ordering additional copies from you.

If they want special consideration, they need to pay. What your price point is remains up to you.

[jgoodstein]

I have mostly done weddings as a volunteer or 2nd shooter (First paid ones on my own coming soon), so take what I say with a grain of salt. I have been asking my prospective clients to release 4-10 images of my choosing, not all of them. Not every picture is the greatest picture for your portfolio. I have received a positive response to this method. Plus, you generally will only use 1-2 per wedding anyway especially after your portfolio has been built up. I do however have a an exclusivity fee in the clause as well that up-charges $200 exactly like jblaschke mentioned.