Zoom with 5D2

[perfarny]

Hi All,
I've been reading / viewing all I can re: 5D2 video as I get closer and closer to taking the plunge. One thing I haven't seen: people zooming in/out while shooting a clip.

Is it doable? smooth? screw up focus too much? Other?

Any insight is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Per

[Karl Johnston]

It's all manual focus; so you have to work with the zoom and slowly manually focus as you're zooming. Has to be done on a tripod (unless you have 3-4 extra hands you haven't told us about) and can take some practise. Unfortunately no autofocus in the 5Dm2 video

[The Moose]

I thought the 5D2 had contrast-detect AF? I don't have one but I've seen one being used while filming. He'd been moving around and moving closer and further away while filming but the video I was shown afterwards seemed to be in focus the whole time (or for the most part at least).

[Karl Johnston]

Really?...If there is I've got no idea how to activate it :lol:

[smacafee]

Yes there is AF, press AF-On to activate it.

[osv]

it's not quite that simple.

most 35mm still camera lenses will not hold focus throughout the zoom range, they have to be re-focused when the zoom is stopped... hence the reason why the 5d has to be shot in film-style mode, it's not a video camera per se, because it doesn't have a real zoom lens.

also remember that the low resolution of the lcd doesn't allow you to do any critical focusing with it... people who are serious about using the 5d have external monitors for that purpose.

understand the workflow ahead of time, so you won't be disappointed.

[A.C.]

AF in the 5D MkII is very simple.

Steps:
-Go to Live View/Movie func. set. menu setting.
-Go down to AF mode
-Select either Live mode (contrast based) or Live face detection mode.

To focus during recording, all you need to do is hold the AF-ON button on the back of the camera. You can also move the "focus box" during filming to any area on the screen and focus on that specific point.

I don't understand why people say that the 5DmkII doesn't support AF during video recording...

[Karl Johnston]

That's interesting info...I didn't see it in the manual :(

[Blue S2]

The 5D contrast focusing is very slow and nothing like a point and shoot. If you are using a prime, its much faster to focus manually. If you don't have a parfocal zoom, its definitely going to be challenging.

[osv]

it would be very difficult to get pro results without a parfocal lense, to say the least... i wonder about rack focusing with dslr lenses?

autofocus while recording is not an option with any video camera, if you want professional-looking footage.

[tkoutdoor]

it would be very difficult to get pro results without a parfocal lense, to say the least... i wonder about rack focusing with dslr lenses?

autofocus while recording is not an option with any video camera, if you want professional-looking footage.When shooting in movie mode it seems like the first rule (when shooting with a still camera hybrid) would be to shoot at f/11 to f/16 or so unless one is trying to create a special effect with the aperture. Shutter speed is not significantly relevant in a static environment during movie mode since the movie can hand off from frame to frame quick enough that one doesn't notice much when it comes to whether or not the action was frozen. There may be times where one wants a higher shutter speed for a special effect (closer to seamless action from frame to frame in fast action sequences) or a lower shutter speed for a special effect (to be sure propellers or blur when filming moving planes). For many things the f stop would seem to be able to be chosen based more on having a wider margin for error for what's in focus than for the special effects. A par focal lens is good in this application, but narrow apertures would "seem to be" equally beneficial if not more beneficial. EDITED bold item for Wanderlust and accuracy.

EDIT: I don't own one of these cameras. If what I'm saying is not possible, please make your case and show why. I'm interested in the video capabilities of the camera and I'm presuming that the video would have the functions available that the camera has to work with. If that's not the case please detail what's different.

[ErrantWanderlust]

When shooting in movie mode it seems like the first rule (when shooting with a still camera hybrid) would be to shoot at f/11 to f/16 or so unless one is trying to create a special effect with the aperture. Shutter speed is not significantly relevant in a static environment during movie mode since the movie can hand off from frame to frame quick enough that one doesn't notice much when it comes to whether or not the action was frozen. There may be times where one wants a higher shutter speed for a special effect (closer to seamless action from frame to frame in fast action sequences) or a lower shutter speed for a special effect (to be sure propellers or blur when filming moving planes). For many things the f stop could be chosen based more on having a wider margin for error for what's in focus than for the special effects. A par focal lens is good in this application, but narrow apertures would be equally beneficial if not more beneficial.


OK. I'm going to try as hard as I can here to not be rude.

A. If you're shooting stopped down, why not just buy a camcorder? The whole point of using the 5D2 is for narrow DOF and low light capabilities.

B: If you owned a 5D2, you'd know that you can't control the aperture without using Nikon lenses or "tricking" the body by twisting an EOS lens partway off the body.

C: Do you intend to shoot with 12K HMI lights, or are you shooting only under midday sun? Because otherwise, F/16 ain't gonna cut it.


And to the OP: Yes, rudimentary autofocus is available. Don't use it. If you really want to shoot a lot of video, I suggest you buy two or three Nikon manual focus prime lenses and some EOS adapters (you can get good glass for less than $50.)

[tkoutdoor]

OK. I'm going to try as hard as I can here to not be rude.

A. If you're shooting stopped down, why not just buy a camcorder? The whole point of using the 5D2 is for narrow DOF and low light capabilities.

B: If you owned a 5D2, you'd know that you can't control the aperture without using Nikon lenses or "tricking" the body by twisting an EOS lens partway off the body.

C: Do you intend to shoot with 12K HMI lights, or are you shooting only under midday sun? Because otherwise, F/16 ain't gonna cut it.


And to the OP: Yes, rudimentary autofocus is available. Don't use it. If you really want to shoot a lot of video, I suggest you buy two or three Nikon manual focus prime lenses and some EOS adapters (you can get good glass for less than $50.)

I think you may be lost in still camera mentality as it's my understanding (could be incorrect, prove me wrong with facts) that video cameras (including pseudo video cameras like the 5DII) simply don't give a darfur about aperture. It has it's purpose, but it's not to operate better in low light as the stacking of multiple frames one on the other is a whole different animal than a still camera. If that's in fact the case use the aperture that gives decent sharpness due to "enough" DOF under typical conditions as I stated at first. You know how to use an ISO setting right? It just so happens that the 5D MKII has ISO to burn. If you had trouble shooting from f/11 to f/16 due to lack of light under typical conditions I think I'd have to school you on what ISO is for. I'll assume that you weren't thinking too clearly on that point. Either that or you're just trying to be clever. Of course there are special effects opportunities for shallow DOF/fast action (wide aperture) and motion blur (narrow aperture). That was stated as well. Did you think that wasn't possible or something? You sounded like you didn't hear me say those very things. Maybe you just had a brain fart.

It's true that I don't own a camera with video. I'm not surmising why someone would consider it worthwhile. I'll leave that for you to do. Who's talking about shooting a lot of video. I don't think anyone buys a 5D MkII to shoot a lot of video. Maybe you think they do. Not sure why you'd think that, but I'll leave that to rattle around in your head. I never said it. It really not that sensible of a thing to do, there are real video cameras out there for shooting a lot of video.

If you don't want to be rude, don't be. This is a forum that welcomes input from a variety of sources, including you. If I'm wrong on something show me why, fact by fact. I won't be the only one thinking what I've said. There's a whole lot of people that come here. Odds are I'm speaking what many people are thinking. No need to harsh anyones buzz on only your second post. Get a grip.

[smacafee]

B: If you owned a 5D2, you'd know that you can't control the aperture without using Nikon lenses or "tricking" the body by twisting an EOS lens partway off the body.


There are lots of options other than Nikon lenses for getting manual control, and many of them are cheaper (like m42 or pentax k-mount).
I think shooting video with old lenses is far superior to using new ones because they often have very smooth/firm focus adjustment, allowing you to change focus during video in a pleasing way.

[ErrantWanderlust]

I think you may be lost in still camera mentality as it's my understanding (could be incorrect, prove me wrong with facts) that video cameras (including pseudo video cameras like the 5DII) simply don't give a darfur about aperture. It has it's purpose, but it's not to operate better in low light as the stacking of multiple frames one on the other is a whole different animal than a still camera. If that's in fact the case use the aperture that gives decent sharpness due to "enough" DOF under typical conditions as I stated at first. You know how to use an ISO setting right? It just so happens that the 5D MKII has ISO to burn. If you had trouble shooting from f/11 to f/16 due to lack of light under typical conditions I think I'd have to school you on what ISO is for. I'll assume that you weren't thinking too clearly on that point. Either that or you're just trying to be clever. Of course there are special effects opportunities for shallow DOF/fast action (wide aperture) and motion blur (narrow aperture). That was stated as well. Did you think that wasn't possible or something? You sounded like you didn't hear me say those very things. Maybe you just had a brain fart.

It's true that I don't own a camera with video. I'm not surmising why someone would consider it worthwhile. I'll leave that for you to do. Who's talking about shooting a lot of video. I don't think anyone buys a 5D MkII to shoot a lot of video. Maybe you think they do. Not sure why you'd think that, but I'll leave that to rattle around in your head. I never said it. It really not that sensible of a thing to do, there are real video cameras out there for shooting a lot of video.

If you don't want to be rude, don't be. This is a forum that welcomes input from a variety of sources, including you. If I'm wrong on something show me why, fact by fact. I won't be the only one thinking what I've said. There's a whole lot of people that come here. Odds are I'm speaking what many people are thinking. No need to harsh anyones buzz on only your second post. Get a grip.


Perhaps I was a bit douchebaggish on that post, but if you're not familiar with the 5D2 as a video camera, why are you offering advice on it? As for your DOF/motion blur effects, yes, you read me correctly, the 5D2 offers NO controls over aperture, shutter speed, or ISO sensitivity in video mode. Period. As for the "nobody buys a 5DII to shoot a lot of video" comment, several full length feature films are being made with it right now. I hope I've addressed your concerns, let me know if I need schooling on anything else.

[ErrantWanderlust]

There are lots of options other than Nikon lenses for getting manual control, and many of them are cheaper (like m42 or pentax k-mount).
I think shooting video with old lenses is far superior to using new ones because they often have very smooth/firm focus adjustment, allowing you to change focus during video in a pleasing way.

Yes, and Zeiss and Panavision and a slew of others makes lenses that will fit too; I was just making a point. As for cheaper, all my Nikon primes cost between $30 and $50, which is cheap enough for me. And yes, MF lenses feel much better and are easy to mark up for focus points. And are practically disposable at the prices you can get them.
Canon has really pissed off a lot of people and effectively shot themselves in the foot on this one. All my Canon glass is going on Ebay.

[tkoutdoor]

Perhaps I was a bit douchebaggish on that post, but if you're not familiar with the 5D2 as a video camera, why are you offering advice on it? As for your DOF/motion blur effects, yes, you read me correctly, the 5D2 offers NO controls over aperture, shutter speed, or ISO sensitivity in video mode. Period. As for the "nobody buys a 5DII to shoot a lot of video" comment, several full length feature films are being made with it right now. I hope I've addressed your concerns, let me know if I need schooling on anything else.
My conversation was a theoretical discussion, which began with "When shooting in movie mode it seems like the first rule (when shooting with a still camera hybrid) would be to shoot at f/11 to f/16". It's true, I don't own one. This is a discussion forum. People can take or leave what I say. Discussion is the basis of this forum and you've pointed out errors in the logic. All fine, more power to you. That's the point of having a discussion. There is just as likely to be someone who comes along who says what you said is true, but only to a certain extent. That's how discussions go.

My discussion point is based on many conversations with a videographer friend of mine and the differences we've discussed about how things like aperture and shutter speed transfer and relate between the still camera mode and and variable shutter speed mode on video cameras. I'm interested in the topic and what I said is logically true (even if it's not empirically true). ..."it seems like the first rule would be to shoot at f/11 to f/16"... essentially to keep as much in focus as you can and not having to rely on a narrow AF band due to shallow aperture. Since it's first a still camera and I/we are photographers generally, one could see why it would be presumable that the typical still camera controls have not been disabled. You seemed to indicate that a person would buy a 5D MkII to take advantage of a shallow DOF in movie mode, yet you say it's not possible (at least as it relates to aperture settings). Clearly you understand at least that that is a natural beginning point for the topic when talking with a photographer instead of a videographer.

The other points I've made are related to the advantages of speeding up or slowing down shutter speeds (frame rate more or less) as well from the video camera side of it. Several points I've made should stand on their own as inherent truths whether I own one or not. I find it hard to believe that none of the settings that you claim to be without controls actually don't have controls. I'll be interested to hear other peoples views on this. Frame rate (correlates roughly to shutter speed for a photographer) would be commonly something that could be changed on the typical video camera (even if the controls are only changing from one video mode - with a certain frame rate - to another video mode with a different frame rate). That's my best understanding from conversations I've had with my friend and reading I've done in trying to understand his general points. Even that understanding may not be perfect, but until I own one all I have to work with is a theoretical understanding and conversations with people who do. I'll be genuinely surprised if not baffled to find out why at least some of those features haven't been included since at some level the controls would seem to be there on a still camera.

If these controls don't in fact do anything in video mode that is worthwhile to know. Of course these controls would relate to the overall topic of zoom with a 5D2, even if only to say that they have no effect (as a photographer may presume vs. a videographer). With a group this size many times there will be someone who's come up with a clever workaround or a way to help explain it more clearly so I won't be at all surprised if we find that this is not the end of the story and other people pipe in on this. It's just something we do around here. This place is a photography "think tank" in my book. There's a lot of resourceful people here and thinking/discussion is encouraged. Constructive comments and attitudes are especially encouraged. I hope you'll have something further to add in that vein.

[ErrantWanderlust]

(abridged by Wanderlust) I find it hard to believe that none of the settings that you claim to be without controls actually don't have controls. I'll be interested to hear other peoples views on this. Frame rate (correlates roughly to shutter speed for a photographer) would be commonly something that could be changed on the typical video camera (even if the controls are only changing from one video mode - with a certain frame rate - to another video mode with a different frame rate).


If these controls don't in fact do anything in video mode that is worthwhile to know. Of course these controls would relate to the overall topic of zoom with a 5D2, even if only to say that they have no effect (as a photographer may presume vs. a videographer). With a group this size many times there will be someone who's come up with a clever workaround or a way to help explain it more clearly so I won't be at all surprised if we find that this is not the end of the story and other people pipe in on this. It's just something we do around here. This place is a photography "think tank" in my book. There's a lot of resourceful people here and thinking/discussion is encouraged. Constructive comments and attitudes are especially encouraged. I hope you'll have something further to add in that vein.

I think it's appropriate to disclose that you don't have experience with the camera before you offer advice about it. Here's the facts on 5D2 video control: http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=187

The only workaround we've so far is to mount lenses with a manual aperture ring to the camera (i.e., Nikon, Pentax, Zeiss, etc. Ironically, pre-EOS Canon lenses won't work) to obtain aperture control. All other settings in video mode are left to the camera's magic elves, and can only be fooled inconsistently. Yes, this is counter-intuitive, and it's why so many of us are so pissed off.

[tkoutdoor]

When shooting in movie mode it seems like the first rule (when shooting with a still camera hybrid) would be to shoot at f/11 to f/16 or so unless one is trying to create a special effect with the aperture. Shutter speed is not significantly relevant in a static environment during movie mode since the movie can hand off from frame to frame quick enough that one doesn't notice much when it comes to whether or not the action was frozen. There may be times where one wants a higher shutter speed for a special effect (closer to seamless action from frame to frame in fast action sequences) or a lower shutter speed for a special effect (to be sure propellers or blur when filming moving planes). For many things the f stop could be chosen based more on having a wider margin for error for what's in focus than for the special effects. A par focal lens is good in this application, but narrow apertures would "seem to be" equally beneficial if not more beneficial.

EDIT: I don't own one of these cameras. If what I'm saying is not possible, please make your case and show why. I'm interested in the video capabilities of the camera and I'm presuming that the video would have the functions available that the camera has to work with. If that's not the case please detail what's different.

I think it's appropriate to disclose that you don't have experience with the camera before you offer advice about it. Here's the facts on 5D2 video control: http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=187

The only workaround we've so far is to mount lenses with a manual aperture ring to the camera (i.e., Nikon, Pentax, Zeiss, etc. Ironically, pre-EOS Canon lenses won't work) to obtain aperture control. All other settings in video mode are left to the camera's magic elves, and can only be fooled inconsistently. Yes, this is counter-intuitive, and it's why so many of us are so pissed off.

The civil tone is much appreciated by me. The actual advice is also much appreciated by me. It appears that some of the subtleties of the English language are escaping you however. I didn't offer advice. I offered an opinion and demonstrated it to be conjecture. To say, "It would seem to be x,y,z" is a whole different thing than saying , "x,y,z are true". To say something "would seem to be true" is to be talking in the realm of theory and conjecture. Not fact, but opinion. Not advice, but speculation. I edited one sentence where I had varied from the "it would seem to be" theme to make it less confusing as you pointed out. The other aspects about special effects for video I believe should be self-evident truths for video. It's possible that I'm wrong, but I believe them to be self-evident. They are my opinion as was the rest. I wish that both the English language and principles of analysis and logic were more readily apparent, but I made the point with reasonable accuracy. Sorry you didn't understand what was being said.

With the 5D MkII features in question apparently not being available I'd be p'd off too. I'm glad I've kept this camera on the back burner in favor of a 1DII or 1DIII body. I wouldn't have wanted to find out it's limitations after being too eager to buy one. I think I'm even more likely now to head for the 1D series since I already have a full frame body. You appear to be saying AF is possible, but not desirable. Is that your opinion? I noticed another guy above seemed to demonstrate that AF was possible. Are you essentially saying that you prefer MF because you can produce better quality video without the AF bouncing around doing its thing? Do you think that zoom is also not desirable with the 5D MkII in video mode? Having said all that, Does Nikon do it more intuitively for a photographer?

[perfarny]

Thanks everyone for chiming in. While I can appreciate opinion and general insight, I was definitely after a specific answer regarding zomming with the 5D2 while doing video (hence the title).

[tkoutdoor]

Thanks everyone for chiming in. While I can appreciate opinion and general insight, I was definitely after a specific answer regarding zomming with the 5D2 while doing video (hence the title).
I didn't notice any good news on the zooming issue in the rest of the thread. Did you see something useful in that regard or did you find more info elsewhere as you were looking (you said you were reading and gathering all the info you could)? The link Wanderlust posted in post 18 had a lot of good info on the camera. I didn't notice that it had any opinion on zoom, though I might have missed it. Pretty good link for exploring the limits and workarounds for the camera though.

I'm still not sure that I understand all of this info clearly, but it appears that with a MF (typically non-Canon) lens with an aperture ring that the aperture can still be selected (if one uses that type of lens for the video). If that's true, then I still think the point I made earlier about choosing f/11 to f/16 could be a valid point. Most valid when there's abundant light possibly, but it would seem to be valid nonetheless. So what I'm getting at is that f/11 to f/16 doesn't necessarily solve any zooming issues you may encounter, but it may give you a better safe zone so that the AF being adjusted slightly (if a lens is not par-focal, or if you're actually adjusting your lens) is a smoother process and less evident to the viewer of the video. This goes to your questions about "smoothness" and "screwing up focus" and it appears to me that it would be a way to make the situation smoother and less inclined to screw up focus if the camera was found to have problems with that.