Choice of 2 Strobist Cheapy Kits...

[Siberius]

Hi,

In another thread I asked for suggestions for cheapish strobist kits and the two main ideas I got were:

1…

The strobist starving student SC3 two-light kit from MPEX. http://www.mpex.com/page.htm?PG=Strobist%20Kits (http://www.mpex.com/page.htm?PG=Strobist%20Kits)


2…

a) Vivitar 285hv
b) 1/2 of a Impact light stand kit: 1 32" umbrellas, umbrella swivel mount, and 1 light stand.
c) Cactus v4 system



I’m pretty much thinking of going for one of these but I thought maybe a few recommendations from others who might have used them might help swing me one way or the other. I feel like I’ve heard both repeatedly mentioned so it’s a tricky choice.

Any tidbits would be very welcome.

(I'd be using it with a 40D if that helps any).

[GenuineRolla]

Having two strobes are nice. That way you can start with just one and learn how to light, then when you're ready..just add the 2nd one. I would go with some other triggers though.

[ZSutton]

I'd say go with one light for now. And I'd recommend the cybersync triggers. Not that much more expensive, and alot better trigger

[Siberius]

But assuming I was getting the same ammount of strobes either way. I should maybe have listed it that way rather than give the impression that I was either going to get 2 from one company or 1 from the other. It'd be two I think from whichever way I go.

It's more which ones people have used or think are best I guess.

Thanks for the input so far. :)

[speedster00]

Just a suggestion...but you can get a 2 light umbrella set up from cowboy gear off ebay for $55 shipped if you dont really want to put much money in it. Then pick up your 2 vivitar285's. You could even go with the ebay 301 triggers for about $45 which get great reviews and has 2 recievers...not trying to change your mind, but thats what I'm doing so I dont put money in it at first. Then if I get addicted, I can buy better gear later when I get better.

[Siberius]

I knew this would be risky cos people would give me other ideas :razz:.

Thanks though. I'll have to check those out too. Is this all compatible with each other though? I don't want to be mixing and matching only to find that, well, they don't match...

[Seanzky]

Just know that if you go with the Cactus or equivalent eBay radio triggers, you will most likely be disappointed. Very few has had success and satisfaction from them. Also, if you end up not-too-interested in off-camera lighting, you'd be hard-pressed trying to sell those off. If you want to dip your toes in OCF, go for something that's at least consistent and true. Sure they're not pocket change like the Cactus triggers, but at least it has a resale value. As opposed to $40 on Cactus triggers and if they don't make you happy, it's $40 gone.

I'll tell you what. If you buy a CyberSync transmitter and receivers and if you end up not liking them, I'll buy them off of you. :P

[Seanzky]

Oh, and to answer your question in the first post... if I had the chance to do everything all over again, I would get these:

1x Vivitar 285HV ($90)
1x Wescott umbrella ($20)
1x LumoPro LP633 umbrella swivel ($18 )
1x LumoPro 8 ft. light stand ($30)
1x Alien Bee CyberSync transmitter -CST ($60)
1x Alien Bee CyberSync receiver - CSRB ($70)

The total before shipping is equivalent to a Canon 430EX II, more or less ... except you're off camera and ready for on-location shooting.

[jeev]

If anyone having a 580EXII what setup do you suggest?

Oh, and to answer your question in the first post... if I had the chance to do everything all over again, I would get these:

1x Vivitar 285HV ($90)
1x Wescott umbrella ($20)
1x LumoPro LP633 umbrella swivel ($18 )
1x LumoPro 8 ft. light stand ($30)
1x Alien Bee CyberSync transmitter -CST ($60)
1x Alien Bee CyberSync receiver - CSRB ($70)

The total before shipping is equivalent to a Canon 430EX II, more or less ... except you're off camera and ready for on-location shooting.

[Siberius]

Oh, and to answer your question in the first post... if I had the chance to do everything all over again, I would get these:

1x Vivitar 285HV ($90)
1x Wescott umbrella ($20)
1x LumoPro LP633 umbrella swivel ($18 )
1x LumoPro 8 ft. light stand ($30)
1x Alien Bee CyberSync transmitter -CST ($60)
1x Alien Bee CyberSync receiver - CSRB ($70)

The total before shipping is equivalent to a Canon 430EX II, more or less ... except you're off camera and ready for on-location shooting.

Thanks for the reply. I love when people do lists like that that are so easy to follow. This really is putting me in a quandry though, the whole, spend a bit more and you'll probably get something more reliable.

Can you tell me how much of a difference it makes to go for the cybersyncs over the cactus's? Like I guess where is the major impact? Do they last longer or are they more solid or do they make your work more efficient somehow?

Just so I can help justify to myself one way or t'other. ;)

Thanks again. :)

[Seanzky]

Thanks for the reply. I love when people do lists like that that are so easy to follow. This really is putting me in a quandry though, the whole, spend a bit more and you'll probably get something more reliable.

Can you tell me how much of a difference it makes to go for the cybersyncs over the cactus's? Like I guess where is the major impact? Do they last longer or are they more solid or do they make your work more efficient somehow?

Just so I can help justify to myself one way or t'other. ;)

Thanks again. :)

I've heard Cactus V2 only having 85% consistency. I'll be honest with you, I've never tried my luck with them but that's thanks to the kind souls here who talked me out of it. From what I've seen on YouTube with the V4, it has become even more unpredictable.

For a set of CyberSyncs (transmitter and receiver), you're looking at around 3x the cost for a set of Cactus. But when you weigh the performance to cost ratio, it's a no-brainer. For CyberSyncs, they fire 100% of the time as long as your flash has recycled. For Cactus (or other cheap triggers), they are known to not fire and misfire or fire off-synch (delayed or ahead). To me, even just for fun, a piece of equipment like that is not worth my time. It might be worth the money, but most definitely not the time... not to mention the headache.

Remember, when you make an order, when it gets to your house you want to play with it and see it work. You didn't wait a week for it to come in the mail to see it misfire. That right there is a big waste of time.

[Titus213]

This kit from B&H is $100 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/425220-REG/Impact_DFUMK_Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html) - no lights. That means you are paying $100+ for the eBay triggers in the Mpex kit which is too much IMO.

Factor that into some of the suggestions for 2 flash units, which would mount on the Impact stands. You are at $250~300 for the kit with 2 lights instead of $400+.

Or am I missing something?

[Seanzky]

If anyone having a 580EXII what setup do you suggest?

If you want to take advantage of ETTL among other things, I would pick PocketWizards over Radiopoppers. Those two seem to be leading the pack in terms of mainstream popularity. Their prices are about the same but I think PWs can back their products better simply because they're on a bigger scale of opperation. Don't get me wrong, RPs are excellent, but us POTNers aren't that blind. We've seen that their products are known to miss release dates. Should there be a problem, I can imagine backorders and further delays. PW Mini/Flex on the other hand, even with their share of problems, gets fixed with software/firmware releases. That's enough to give a sense of security for many whose lives depend on photography.

There are many other angles to consider when looking at the "top end" triggers. Above is just my opinion, which is, when it comes to taking advanatage of the flash's tech, I'd go for PWs.

[Seanzky]

This kit from B&H is $100 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/425220-REG/Impact_DFUMK_Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html) - no lights. That means you are paying $100+ for the eBay triggers in the Mpex kit which is too much IMO.

Factor that into some of the suggestions for 2 flash units, which would mount on the Impact stands. You are at $250~300 for the kit with 2 lights instead of $400+.

Or am I missing something?

Not to knock on B&H but I own three of LumoPro's umbrella swivels and I've heared what Impact swivels tend to do (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=682788). I've also heard about their light stands though I have no links at the moment. Also, I don't know how much of a difference this makes (I'm no pro) but the Westcott umbrellas from MPEX are 43" I believe as opposed to B&H's 32"(?).

I have never bought any kit from MPEX, though, I always buy my stuff individually.

[Titus213]

Not to knock on B&H but I own three of LumoPro's umbrella swivels and I've heared what Impact swivels tend to do (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=682788). I've also heard about their light stands though I have no links at the moment. Also, I don't know how much of a difference this makes (I'm no pro) but the Westcott umbrellas from MPEX are 43" I believe as opposed to B&H's 32"(?).

I have never bought any kit from MPEX, though, I always buy my stuff individually.

I saw that thread - can't imagine what's breaking or why. The equipment I've used worked well and was pretty good value for the price. And one case of someone breaking them isn't anything I'd get excited about. I actually use the units from Flash Zebra and they are fine.

Now B&H's response might be pause for concern.:confused:

[Siberius]

Whew, this is getting more complicated by the second, hehe.

Hmm, in retrospect, I can see the argument for more consistency. I spent a bunch of money on the camera so that I wouldn't have to upgrade it in 10 minutes and so it makes sense not to dodge that principal again. Of course, like getting a 40D over the high end models, I'd like to get something decent enough without hitting the really expensive stuff.

So right now, I'm thinking that Sean's list looks pretty good.



1x Vivitar 285HV ($90)
1x Wescott umbrella ($20)
1x LumoPro LP633 umbrella swivel ($18 )
1x LumoPro 8 ft. light stand ($30)
1x Alien Bee CyberSync transmitter -CST ($60)
1x Alien Bee CyberSync receiver - CSRB ($70)




That would be $288 for one light in total though and I'm thinking $600 might be a bit of a stretch when I was hoping not to go above $500.

Still, perhaps it would be more sensible to get one light and get it going really well and know I can trust it rather than two lights that are a little inconsistent.

Am I still missing any ways to bring this down though? Or is there something I could insert in there that is a more sensible choice than something listed?

I know I say it every post but once again thanks. This help you are all giving me is (whilst mind-boggling) gradually getting me to the place where I can feel confident in what I get in an area which I as of yet know so little about. I'm really hoping that I can get solid on my decision by the weekend and take the plunge...

[Marloon]

hey...

-vivtar 285hv
-CTR-301 P (just search on ebay and list it by price + shipping: lowest)
-impact light stand kit (2 stands, 2 umbrellas, and 2 mounts)

thats all you need to get started... should cost about 160 per list stand set up. should cost you about 320 if you are doing both...

enjoy photography :D

[Siberius]

Thanks Marloon for replying in both places :cool:. I was just about to reply by pm but I'll carry it on out here, seeing as you posted here.

The Vivitars and the Light Stand Kit are now on the definate list. Lots of recommendations and both seeming really good value.

My last choice is between the CTR-301 Ps and the Cybersyncs.

I guess if I were going to go with the first, my total is looking like 320.

If I am adding up right, if I went with the second, the total is 550ish.

So quite a big difference in some ways. I did read the thread about the CTR-301 Ps though and people who had tested it were saying how it was far more reliable than the Cacti.

Which is where I wonder to just try that for now... decisions decisions...

[Marloon]

hey siberius...

Take this very seriously when i say this...

if you want THE BEST ebay triggers that goes hand in hand with the vivitar 285HV, you need to look for JIANISI PT-04TM WITH PC SYNC PORT RECEIVERS. These triggers are 100% reliable with my vivitar 285HVs. They also

The CTR-301 Ps are great too because of their low profile design... But seriously, i've had misfires on very different situations. whenever systems start to misfire even once, i call em out and i call them garbage. I am very picky about my products.

I've tested all of the following: Cactus V4, V2s, CTR - 301 P, Pt-04 Tms. The only that i ended up keeping were the CTR-301P and the Pt-04Tm.

Reasons:
CTR-301Ps = distance, and 90-95% reliability, and low profile design that has a 1/4 thread hole to mount straight onto light stands.... They also have a optical trigger system, which proved handy in certain situations. But when you deal with a wireless system, you never have to rely on optical triggers. Sadly, i needed it in a certain situation.

PT-04Tms = 100% reliability, shorter distance work... No misfiring problems. I would love to keep them but they have a really weird design...

Now, when i went to order new PT-04TMs i ran into a new type of receiver system. the PT-04 CN these have pc sync port...

Though i have never tested them, they seem to prove to be the best (potentially)... They combine the low profile design of CTR-301Ps, with the reliability of PT-04Tms. they can be found here:...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISHOOT-PT-04-CN-Wireless-Flash-Trigger-PT-04-3-receiver_W0QQitemZ270330329784QQcmdZViewItemQQptZC amera_Flash_Accessories?hash=item270330329784&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50#ht_3502wt_1167

but yeah... if you want the best (for portrait work and not sports or anything like that), go for JIANISI PT-04TM WITH PC SYNC PORTS. I can give you the link to go buy them... but you need to email the buyer asking for ones that come with a PC Sync Port.

shoot me a PM. I hope it works out for you. i am ordering a ton of the PC Sync soons..

and for those curious... YES I COULD HAVE BOUGHT CYBERSYNCS WITH HOWEVER MUCH IVE SPEND BUYING THE EBAY TRIGGERS. WHY HAVENT I? BECAUSE I DONT WANT TO BUY A WHOLE BUNCH OF CABLING YET... AND I'VE GONE OUT AND SOLD MY OTHER SETS (oops, caps is on ahaha)

[Seanzky]

I have a question, Marloon. Does the eBay seller cover defects for their products? What's their terms for warranty coverage? Also, I've never had to send anything to China (or outside the US for that matter), how much is that should there ever be a problem?

I'm asking because I have a friend who can't afford CyberSyncs and I really haven't tried any of these.

[juise]

Marloon,

Thanks for taking the time to write out and share your experience. I have a few questions.


PT-04Tms = 100% reliability, shorter distance work... No misfiring problems. I would love to keep them but they have a really weird design...

How short is their range? What's the fastest shutter speed you've been able to sync.
[Edit: Just to be clear, I read the ebay listing, but was wondering if they actually reached 30m and achieved 1/2000 sync.]


Though i have never tested them, they seem to prove to be the best (potentially)... They combine the low profile design of CTR-301Ps, with the reliability of PT-04Tms. they can be found here:...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISHOOT-PT-04-CN-Wireless-Flash-Trigger-PT-04-3-receiver_W0QQitemZ270330329784QQcmdZViewItemQQptZC amera_Flash_Accessories?hash=item270330329784&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50#ht_3502wt_1167


What leads you to believe that these are reliable? I haven't seen them discussed previously and they aren't manufactured by the same company (as far as I can tell).

[juise]

Marloon,What leads you to believe that these are reliable? I haven't seen them discussed previously and they aren't manufactured by the same company (as far as I can tell).

I may have answered my own question (Google is my friend :)).
Flickr Strobist discussion (http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157614223798593/) (nothing but rave reviews)
This guy claims 100m range! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/redjinxycat/3280517453/)

Appaently, there's an even newer version, the Pt-04 IS. There are some mixed reviews here (http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157615528998786/).
Here's a recent ebay listing (http://cgi.ebay.com/ISHOOT-PT-04-IS-Flash-Trigger-PT04-to-Nikon-2-receivers_W0QQitemZ270360805602QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ Camera_Flash_Accessories?hash=item270360805602&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A4|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A200) (with lots of photos).

[Marloon]

I have a question, Marloon. Does the eBay seller cover defects for their products? What's their terms for warranty coverage? Also, I've never had to send anything to China (or outside the US for that matter), how much is that should there ever be a problem?

I'm asking because I have a friend who can't afford CyberSyncs and I really haven't tried any of these.

seriously, for me, they are so cheap that i just dont care lol...

each receiver is like 10 dollars. if they fail, i am sure you will get your moneys worth out of them before they die.

the pt-04tms are great products, none have died on me so far

[Marloon]

Pt-04tm...
i got 1/200, to be safe, stay at 1/160

the distance? i am going to say 30 feet? i use a 70-200 on a 40D for portraits. i can crank out full body portraits at 135mm (which is 200 on FF)... so its pretty far...

the CTR-301 Ps got 60 feet @ 100%, 72 feet @ 90%

they are manufactured by the same company... i cant remember the factory name... but the guy who owns it, sent me a full catalogue of his products. all the hoods, and flash accessories come from the same company.

what leads me to believe that they are reliable?

Marloon,

Thanks for taking the time to write out and share your experience. I have a few questions.


How short is their range? What's the fastest shutter speed you've been able to sync.
[Edit: Just to be clear, I read the ebay listing, but was wondering if they actually reached 30m and achieved 1/2000 sync.]


What leads you to believe that these are reliable? I haven't seen them discussed previously and they aren't manufactured by the same company (as far as I can tell).

[juise]

what leads me to believe that they are reliable?

Thanks again for sharing your experience. My question was about the PT-04 CN triggers and why you thought they were reliable since you hadn't tested them. However, I found some good reviews of them, as linked in my post above.

[Marloon]

Thanks again for sharing your experience. My question was about the PT-04 CN triggers and why you thought they were reliable since you hadn't tested them. However, I found some good reviews of them, as linked in my post above.

They are potentially great because...
-Use the same chipwork as the PT-04tm II
-use a low profile design
-have a pc sync port
-use 2 AAA batts
-have a 1/4" thread hold

[OWSIU]

If I'm lucky my PT-04 IS will be here today. I picked them over the CN versions because of the better battery life, 1/500 sync speed and hotshoe foot. I wanted the cactus v4's, but the reviews have been too spotty.

[ShotByTom]

They are potentially great because...
-Use the same chipwork as the PT-04tm II
-use a low profile design
-have a pc sync port
-use 2 AAA batts
-have a 1/4" thread hold


I've used an older version of these for over a year, including 3 weddings and I've never had a problem with them. I prefer Sunpak 383 flashes over the vivitars, but that's just me.

The ebay triggers are fine, you don't need to spend a lot of money on them..in fact there is a set for sale in this forum:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=683510

[brecklundin]

On my 40D with a 430EX II, I get a sync speed of 1/250 with the PT-04 GY (which = PT-04 III = PT-04 IS as far as I have been able to find out)...so, if you want fast sync speeds, think about it...but I have had no significant issues with the set I got...only issue has been phantom triggering. I tracked it down to the battery door being loose enough that when pressed or moved slightly it can cause a flash...right into your face if you aren't careful. ;) I have tried taping the doors but no help, so maybe a flaky ground or something. But it is only on two of the four Rx units that came with my set. I only need two and wanted two as a backup...so, it's fine with me...but, your needs might be different.

Face it, if budget matters, the cheap triggers are simply a concession you must deal with until you can upgrade. That is the way I decided on what to do...and am not sorry I went the cheap route.

[Marloon]

Can someone explain to me the difference between the PT-04 CN and the PT-04 IS?

Can someone also tell me the max sync speed, range and if there are any ghosting?

[juise]

I picked them over the CN versions because of the better battery life, 1/500 sync speed and hotshoe foot.

Just to be clear, the sync speed is limited by your camera (as stated in the ebay listings) and not the necessarily by the triggers. For instance, the max sync speed on the 40D is 1/250. The 5D's listed max sync is 1/200. And depending on your set-up, your actual max speed may end up lower than the published number. The triggers may be able to do 1/500, but that won't do you any good if your camera doesn't sync faster.

(Disclaimer: I don't actually have experience with radio triggers, I've just been researching them lately.)

[Marloon]

Just to be clear, the sync speed is limited by your camera (as stated in the ebay listings) and not the necessarily by the triggers. For instance, the max sync speed on the 40D is 1/250. The 5D's listed max sync is 1/200. And depending on your set-up, your actual max speed may end up lower than the published number. The triggers may be able to do 1/500, but hat won't do you any good if your camera doesn't sync faster.

(Disclaimer: I don't actually have experience with radio triggers, I've just been researching them lately.)

dont worry, you are right...

some ebay triggers also have a max sync speed.

CTR-301P sit at 1/200 (safe at 1/160)
V4 sit at 1/250 (safe at 1/200)
PT-04TM is at 1/200 (safe at 1/160)

[Strayz]

I would say get the inpact kit from B&H and then get a pair of Sunpack/vivtar /sb-26/sb-28 flashes and one optical trigger and one set of cybersink or skyports call it good.

I have the above kit and minus the vivtar flashes I like it a lot. it works and I have not had any problems other than operator error.

[brecklundin]

Just to be clear, the sync speed is limited by your camera (as stated in the ebay listings) and not the necessarily by the triggers. For instance, the max sync speed on the 40D is 1/250. The 5D's listed max sync is 1/200. And depending on your set-up, your actual max speed may end up lower than the published number. The triggers may be able to do 1/500, but that won't do you any good if your camera doesn't sync faster.

(Disclaimer: I don't actually have experience with radio triggers, I've just been researching them lately.)

Exactly, that was why I mentioned it with mine. It is a wall I have found limiting at time. But with how most folks will use them, it' probably not that big a deal. I never read any one who ever got more than 1/250th that I actually believed. Especially when some of them made the claim using the same body I have, 40D. I put those people in the "me too" crowd. You know those who comment just to feel part of something in their lives? ;)

EDIT: Wait, I don't want ya to think I was commenting that your comment was a "me too" thing. It sorta reads like that is what I was writing...I am actually trying to agree, even if in a ham-handed fashion. :D

[OWSIU]

Just to be clear, the sync speed is limited by your camera (as stated in the ebay listings) and not the necessarily by the triggers. For instance, the max sync speed on the 40D is 1/250. The 5D's listed max sync is 1/200. And depending on your set-up, your actual max speed may end up lower than the published number. The triggers may be able to do 1/500, but that won't do you any good if your camera doesn't sync faster.

(Disclaimer: I don't actually have experience with radio triggers, I've just been researching them lately.)


That is correct, 1/500 is faster than the max on my 50D which is 1/250. It was more of extra assurance for me to know that the IS version will be able to reliably sync (hopefully) at 1/250 without any problems. I did end up getting them on saturday, but only played with them for a short while.

[juise]

That is correct, 1/500 is faster than the max on my 50D which is 1/250. It was more of extra assurance for me to know that the IS version will be able to reliably sync (hopefully) at 1/250 without any problems. I did end up getting them on saturday, but only played with them for a short while.

Sweet. Write up a little review when you get a chance. I think you'll be the first one on POTN to report on these particular triggers.

[OWSIU]

I posted some info over in this thread:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=684336

[Siberius]

Well, thought I'd update to say that I got all the stuff and tried it out a couple of times. I can see that once I get it all sorted in my head, I'm gonna love these things. So far only tried one light. Maybe I can show a couple of pics to show what I got.

Indoors, testing out for a portrait using myself as model, sadly, I forgot to get an expression :-P. I just used the flash through the umbrella.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g97/vaskel/StrobistTestRich1.jpg


Outdoors, no umbrella, just flash.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g97/vaskel/AngieField1.jpg


Only problems I have had are occasional non-flashes, which might be due to the batteries I suppose, what are the optimum to use? The other thing is receiver that goes between the flash and the light stand really doesn't seem to connect to the light stand adapter all that well, it almost seems too small and so does not lock in as tight as I'd like... anything I can do about that?

But anyways, thanks for all the help with my search, I feel like I'm on the way now. I just need to do the learning of how to use it all ;).

[RacingMoose]

Siberius....I was just reading through this thread and wondered what you ended up purchasing?

[Aeth]

For your number two picture, if you dropped the exposure on camera about two stops, the background would be nicely exposed and the flashes would make your model pop. Give it a go, it is a neat trick.

[Mr Wolfy]

I decided to go with two Sunpak PF-30X flashes and a Ebay CTR-301P Trigger & 2 receivers...thing is the Sunpak will not flash...apparently it is compatible but I have tried everything!!!....it is set up correctly....but it will not flash...anyone used this set up before?

[CosmoKid]

I decided to go with two Sunpak PF-30X flashes and a Ebay CTR-301P Trigger & 2 receivers...thing is the Sunpak will not flash...apparently it is compatible but I have tried everything!!!....it is set up correctly....but it will not flash...anyone used this set up before?


i think all 10 of your posts have been related to this issue. :)

seems like you are SOL. those Sunpaks can't operate in manual mode and the triggers won't operate in XTTL.