Couple quick ?'s for the Wedding Guys

[dsze]

1. Do you require a retainer fee/deposit at consulation time and then the remaining about prior to ceremony? If so, how much? 50% ?

2. Do you charge sales tax and list it on the contract for your service, not necessarily for prints?

thanks
daniel

[Moments]

Everyone does it different. Personally, I have a deposit when a client signs a contract, and then I list 4 more payments that are one, two weeks prior to the wedding , another when they pick up the proofs, another when they place the album order, and the last when they pick up the finished albums. The first, second and third deposit amounts are listed on the contract. Since most of my clients upgrade after they see the proofs, I then show a balance due, by that amount, the contract says that 50% of the remaining balance is due upon the album order, which is 30 days after the proofs are received, or a 1 1/2% interest per month will be charded until paid and the remaining balance is due upon delivery of the finished albums.

And yes I have the sales tax in the contract for the amount thats on the contract for what ever it includes at the time of signing of the contract. I list it as a separate line list so we have no confussion as to what I'm charging and what the state of new york is getting, not me. If the final invoice which is generated from the initial contract plus additional items or modifications is different from the initial contract, then the sales taxes changes also. I run a reputable studio, so I don't play with the sales taxes, The department of sales tax revenue does not play nice if you try to keep money from them.

[DaveG]

1. Do you require a retainer fee/deposit at consulation time and then the remaining about prior to ceremony? If so, how much? 50% ?

2. Do you charge sales tax and list it on the contract for your service, not necessarily for prints?

thanks
daniel

I charge an initial non-refundable, non transferrable booking fee. It's not all that much, only about 15% of my total fee. The main thing is that they stop shopping as soon as they pay this fee. If you don't charge a booking fee then they will keep shopping and may not even tell you if they find another photographer.

This is also a good faith deposit. One groom told me that they wanted to book me but weren't sure of the date, but it was one of three Saturdays in June. He said that he'd pay me the 15% deposit for those three days. I told him that I'd be happy to book their wedding this way but that I'd require two full payments for the two days that would be booked in what was obviously bad faith.

I don't think that it occured to him that I'd be giving up two days in as prime time as it gets, and for only 15% of my regular fees. Suffice to say I never heard from him again. But I booked all three of those days with regular weddings!

A few years ago another groom said that there was no way that he would pay a deposit. I told him that was OK as long as he understood that I'd shoot his wedding unless something better came up. He got the point and hired someone else.

Although this is probably sour grapes I wouldn't have taken that wedding either. Although you didn't ask about this there are times when turning down a wedding is the best commercial decision you can make. I try to do it in a way that they don't realize that I have turned them down. I had a groom get drunk at the wedding presentation, another (an MBA student) who wanted to sue someone, and a bride who refused to plan for rain ("It WILL NOT rain on my wedding day.", yeah right.), to one wedding couple who more or less broke up during the presentation! (I told the story of that one in a funny way but a couple of years later I actually think that it ended tragically.) In any case if I get a weird vibe I just keep going.

The remainder of the fee is due on the day of the wedding. I found that it was more trouble to arrange intermediate payments than the early payment was worth. Besides brides and grooms are cash rich on their wedding day. Once or twice a season I'll get to the reception and the groom will have forgotten to bring the cheque. The last thing that I want is him taking up a collection up at the reception so I just tell him not to worry. But when I call him to tell him that their wedding proofs are ready I ALWAYS tell him what the exact balance is, so he doesn't get to do this twice. There's just no way that they'd get any product without paying for it, but it's never been a problem.

I don't know about where you live but sales taxes are charged on every part of the sale around here. You don't get to decide as to what has tax added and what doesn't. I suggest that you talk to an accountant so you don't dig an expensive-to-fix hole.

[dsze]

Thanks for all the info...I keep saying I'm done with wedding, but then I get asked again and get excited about it. I know that I much more protected, and wise, than with my first 2 weddings though.

As for the sales tax, yes of course it applies around here also and of course I intend to pay my taxes on this small business; I was just asking whether or not the charges for taxes is explicitely spelled out on others' contracts or not.

thanks again!
-daniel

[natalka]

I require a retainer (retainers are non-refundable, deposits need to be returned if the couple cancels or books another photographer), and the balance due two weeks prior to the wedding date. The only two times I ever let people pay their balance on their wedding days, both checks bounced. And who has the money to pay their photographer after the wedding?

One thing I never understood about "professional" photographers is why they value themselves so much less than other wedding professionals? The wedding dress, the caterer, the cake baker, the videographer, the reception venue...all paid in advance. The caterer doesn't wait until after the dinner is served to get their final payment. My clients know what product they are going to get. That's what a contract is. It defines what both the client and myself will do. I will not deliver a product until I am paid. That's why I allow for two weeks before the wedding date to be paid, in case anything goes wrong, such as a bounced check or lost mail. And who wants to be shooting a wedding all day wondering if they will be paid in one month for the work they are doing today, or wondering if the couple will still be together for whatever reason? I personally know wedding photographers who have 5,6,7 year old wedding albums waiting to be picked up by their clients. Does that mean they are still waiting to be paid as well?

Natalie

[Moments]

I require a retainer (retainers are non-refundable, deposits need to be returned if the couple cancels or books another photographer), and the balance due two weeks prior to the wedding date. The only two times I ever let people pay their balance on their wedding days, both checks bounced. And who has the money to pay their photographer after the wedding?

One thing I never understood about "professional" photographers is why they value themselves so much less than other wedding professionals? The wedding dress, the caterer, the cake baker, the videographer, the reception venue...all paid in advance. The caterer doesn't wait until after the dinner is served to get their final payment. My clients know what product they are going to get. That's what a contract is. It defines what both the client and myself will do. I will not deliver a product until I am paid. That's why I allow for two weeks before the wedding date to be paid, in case anything goes wrong, such as a bounced check or lost mail. And who wants to be shooting a wedding all day wondering if they will be paid in one month for the work they are doing today, or wondering if the couple will still be together for whatever reason? I personally know wedding photographers who have 5,6,7 year old wedding albums waiting to be picked up by their clients. Does that mean they are still waiting to be paid as well?

Natalie

On the note about the deposits, my contract says that all deposits paid are non-refundable.

As far as being valued less than the other professionals, no, I'm not. I have the only thing that is left from the wedding, thier photographs. Everyone else is done, (Unless they have video) I'm not. I have what they want. I have a few more months to go before I'm done with more expense to come.

I also do not believe in taking payments on the wedding date. The payment system I use is also for cash flow thoughout the year in the studio. My third payment is when they pick up the proofs which is 3 weeks after the wedding. They are always running to pick up the proofs with cash in hand. They also order thier thank you cards that day. They are then given 30 days to place the album order which is also when they will pick up the Thank You cards. No Album order, No Thank You Cards. When I take the album order, I take 1/2 of the balance due. Now I'm doing work again about 2 - 3 hours, The final payment is when they pickup the albums.

I have had a few clints that have not come in to place thier album order, but I already have collected more than enough up to this point. To date, no one has not come in to pick up thier finished albums, even the couple this weekend that owed $1800.00 at the delivery. Most clients last payments range from $500 to $1200 depending upon the final upgrades they chose. We really try to weed out the clients that can't afford to pay for photography. Most couples like the terms of my payment system and they follow it.

I do between 50 - 60 wedding, Bar/Bats with other studio shoots and commercial shoots each year and I can say that my clients do value me and my studio. Out of 53 jobs last year, only two have not come in to place thier album order, and from the year before only 1. When or if they come in, it will cost them more for the albums to be produced. If I had collected all the money before, it would cost me more money to produce the albums now or I could owe them back money for something that was not produced and delivered to them.
You might not agree with me, but it has been working for me and the studio for years.

[natalka]

Moments...As you stated, everyone does it differently, and I described how I do it. Whatever works for you, and has, then that's great. Every photographer will give you a different answer. Put simply, I require a retainer, not a deposit, then a balance due two weeks prior to the wedding. That's it. Tax is calculated based on whatever package the couple has chosen, and prints and albums are taxed accordingly. That should answer dsze's question.

Natalie

[natalka]

Oops, just realized this post for the Wedding "Guys".

Natalie

[DocFrankenstein]

Oops, just realized this post for the Wedding "Guys".
I beleive that it's idiomatic and includes both genders.

[dsze]

Thanks for all the responses. I intended no gender biasing with my title.

-daniel

[GerryDavid]

I think in Ontario you dont have to sign up with gst or pst unless you make more than $5 or $10k or something, then you have to. I choose to sign up with both since you make a % of the tax you collect and you get tax back on your materials for the business. So if your a part timer doing weddings, and unless your making $$,$$$ each wedding, I dont think you need to worry about that here. But if you get more business later and have to charge tax, then I think the tax for the first part comes out of pocket since the customer has already paid.

When I do weddings I plan to do 50% of the bill to hold the date. Then 50% before the wedding.

How does everyone accept payment? Cash, checks, money orders, credit cards?

[cricket]

I state on my contract that a deposit of 1/3 is due at the signing of the contract. The balance is to be paid on the day of the wedding (before I start shooting). I then deliver the photos in 2 weeks time.

I have a clause that states that the deposit is non-refundable because I only do 1 wedding in a day, and I may have turned down other requests to do theirs. I have made a few exceptions due to tragedies, etc. and have refunded the deposit. It is at my discretion.

At the time of ordering extra prints, the order is to be paid in full. If they order/pay at the initial viewing, they get a discount (this is stated ahead of time so they are ready to pay at the initial viewing).

For my business, I have found this to be the best method for me.

[Todd Jacobsen]

Does anybody "sell" the jpegs?

That's what my wedding contract was for: Approximately 500 jpegs. We paid for just the CD, no prints.

We also had a very small wedding (the two of us, our kids (two dogs) and the JOP at a B&B getaway...)

[GerryDavid]

Ive seen people say its a bad practice to sell negatives, film or digital. You can usually make more money selling reprints than what you get for the negatives, depending on who your market is.

But it seems that todays couples demand the negatives in the package. I know of some people that were picking someone and they narrowed down the photographers to the ones that sell the negatives right away.

Once I move Ill do some market research and find otu what the competition is doing. If they are all including them in the package I may not have a choice in the matter.

[GerryDavid]

The photographer that I know that doesnt sell his negatives makes many times more in reprint sales than what he would get for the negatives in the first few months. He has them on sale for a while to encourage people to buy the reprints right away. Im hoping I can do this, assuming the competition doesnt give them away.

If you deal with a website/lab that you trust, you can have the client/friends/family order it straight from a website. This way you dont have to deal with waiting for a check to clear, deal with the credit card stuff, or hasstle of lab reprint forms, etc. In the rangefinder magazine from a few months back, a guy makes $500 more in reprint sales now than what he use to by using an online printing lab/site, of course he makes like $50,000 a wedding in the first place, im not sure how those numbers would translate to a normal level photographer.

Even if I dont go with an online site/printing lab combo I would rather do the reprints and make the extra money. The $/hour should be rather good since all you have to do is find the file, upload it to the printer and wait for it to arrive and deliver it or have it mailed to the person.

I would probably sell the negatives in 5 or so years after, just so I wouldnt have to worry about long term storage.

Good point about the credit card expenses for doing it in person. But it could loose some business. I wonder how many photogs offer paypal. You would pretty much have to charge extra for it since 5% or what ever the fee on $1000 or more is can get rather expensive.

[Harry Settle]

On the note about the deposits, my contract says that all deposits paid are non-refundable.

It doesn't matter that you say your "deposit" is non-refundable. The fact that you call it a "deposit" makes it refundable. (in the eyes of the court) That is why everyone is switching to calling it a "retainer", myself I call it a "reservation fee".

[Moments]

It doesn't matter that you say your "deposit" is non-refundable. The fact that you call it a "deposit" makes it refundable. (in the eyes of the court) That is why everyone is switching to calling it a "retainer", myself I call it a "reservation fee".

I will take up that point with my lawyer. Last time he looked over my contract, he never brought up that as someting that needed to be changed. He wanted to draw up a 2 page addendum that went into terms reguarding lawsiuts for nonpayment, interest fees and who is responsiblre for court fees etc. It seemed to be unrealistic and I thought it would give a bad taste to any potential clients. You know lawyers.

To date I have only had two clients cancell thier weddings. I had them sign paperwork stating the cancelleation of the wedding, and releasing me from being at the wedding on thier date. It also said that the deposit was not being refunded. In that paper work, I also said that if they rebook a wedding within 1 year from the cancellation date, and the wedding would take place within two years from that date, for a date that I or my other staff photographer was available, thier original deposit would be applied to a new contract, which would be at the current pricing of the new contracts time of writting and signing.