Condition of Entry "A copy of photographs"?

[Nevar]

I have had a quick read of the stickies and am still at a loss on whether my current situation is worth pursuing.

.:THE SITUATION:.

Currently I am just starting out in photography, and have taken from rather nice shots in paintball locally here in Australia. To do this however I require permission to enter the private property of the field owner. With each owner the requirements can differ greatly, so too can their understanding of the law here.

Here are two examples:
A. "All the photographs taken on my field I own".

By this I gather the owner of the field believes they own any photos taken on their field. I have been informed by a lawyer this is incorrect and can not be attached to condition of entry unless in written form and signed by me.

B. "As a condition of letting you take photos, we want a copy of all of them".

Perfectly legal the lawyer tells me as conditions can vary from person to person for the same property, and as ownership of the photos has not changed hands it does not need to written. Use of these photos however is another storey.

.:THE GOAL:.

Provide photos of a certain size to players for free, and aim to make a little money from advertising (model releases required) and article writing for magazines.

.:THE QUESTION:.

As it now seems I will have to engage the services of a lawyer to write up contacts specific to my requirements, I am wondering if its worth it?

I understand there are some Australian specifics here, but what have others done in this circumstance? What agreements have you negotiated to in the past?

Currently its feels that my good intentions to provide free photos for the players, and to raise awareness of paintball are being... well... slightly abused.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[dreamcatcher23]

Not an ideal situation, but if you don't want to get a lawyer involved you could do this...

If B. "As a condition of letting you take photos, we want a copy of all of them" is literally what is said, why not provide low resolution versions? There's no technical specifications given, so they can't complain if they don't receive certain things. Attach a licence to the images stating that they're for personal use only, not to be transferred, copied, sublicenced etc.

Have you got the advertising clients and magazines lined up? If so, great. If not, I'd probably look into that before going any further.

[bobinatcat]

^ im sure they will tell you to f off afterwards though if you do that a few times...even though they are asking simply for "copies" they will get annoyed and take away your privileges in the matter i imagine.

[S.Horton]

That's pretty extreme -- What do other photographers say who are shooting there?

[sspellman]

Nevar,

When you have a real media assignment, your editor will arrange access to the paitball field which gets the publicity of the article in return. The field will then not requre you to provide photos(which no legit media will do). The key issue is that without a media assignment, why should the paintball field provide you priveledged access to take pictures that generate $$$ and get nothing in exchange?

Your stated goals are confusing. Why would you provide pictures to players for free? How do you plan on making money off advertising and magazines? A better aproach is to have a team, field, or business hire you to take pictures, and they would arrange for access to the games.

Scott

[Nevar]

Your stated goals are confusing. Why would you provide pictures to players for free? How do you plan on making money off advertising and magazines? A better aproach is to have a team, field, or business hire you to take pictures, and they would arrange for access to the games.

Scott

They are a little, granted. My main goal is to provide photos to the players for free. They already fork out a fortune playing the sport, and I already love taking the photos so that's my payment there.

I only see articles and mags as making some extra money to improve my gear. I am a long way from doing this.

I thought the fields would see this as a bonus to their player population, not an easy way to save advertising money.

I suppose all I have to do is state this to them. I get to take photos of a sport I love to watch, the players get free photos, they get free service to players for no extra cost (Another reason to come to their events). If they want to use my work for advertising or promotional work then they have to pay for it. Period.

Thanks all for your comments. I have my pitch set now, and basically if I am not happy with the agreement, then then there is not point in doing it. Hopefully there will be a field out there that sees the benefits for all.

[rawshorty]

Firstly in this country the second your shutter closes YOU own the copyright and it can NOT be used for commercial purposes without your written consent.But on a lighter note if you are just starting out i would suggest you let them use your photo's for free but with the condition they acknowledge you in any advertising material having your name against the photo could possibly bring some paid work your way.

[PhotosGuy]

THE GOAL: Provide photos of a certain size to players for free, and aim to make a little money from advertising (model releases required) and article writing for magazines. If I were you & I had "rather nice shots", then I'd start contacting the magazines now. What do you have to lose?

As for "B. "As a condition of letting you take photos, we want a copy of all of them"., read this for some hints:
A couple questions. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=683465)