Portraits and Myspace

[dufrenbk]

Hi all, I recently did a senior photoshoot for someone I know well. The client's mom paid what I asked, they got good pics blah blah blah... I'll cut to the point. The client's mom scanned my photos and put them on Myspace. I know lots of people that print pictures off of Myspace... if they print them, we photographers don't get any money from that. She didn't put many pics up. A few days before she scanned them, she called me and wanted a CD with the pictures on them to put on Myspace. I told her I would think about it and call her back (I don't wanna give out originals for obvious reasons). I called her and told her I could send her smaller sized pics with a watermark on them. She said that would be fine and I did just that. Days go by and she didn't put any on Myspace. Today I check it out and she's put scanned photos on her page. I send her a nice email asking her to take those down and put the watermarked pics I gave her up because the scanned ones were poor quality, I didn't want anyone to be able to print them easily, I wanted advertisement for it, so on and so on. It was really a nice letter. She responds saying that she only put a few up and that other people have their senior pictures on Myspace without watermarks, she won't make other pics out of the scans, she didn't really care for the watermark I put on them...

I am just starting out with making money with photography. I didn't have them sign any paperwork.

Do you professionals worry about Myspace or anything like it? How do you go about safeguarding your work? I know almost no one gives out digital files, but I guarantee you lots of people scan photos.

[Gary_Evans]

The client's mom paid what I asked, ..........

I know lots of people that print pictures off of Myspace... if they print them, we photographers don't get any money from that.


Either charge more for the initial shoot and treat any additional orders as a bonus, or use a situation like this to upsell disc of images, or simply dont sell prints in a size that fit on a scanner

[jloehle]

In my opinion, she paid for the photo session and prints, so I would not worry about her using it on a personal web site. Seems she should have the right to.

Joe

[bacchanal]

In the future add the price of a small digital file onto your print price and include a disk with the images that people purchase. People want to use photos on myspace. Sell them what they want.

[Mike30D]

Lesson learned for next time: Make them sign a contract that states your policy on scanning prints.

A lot of photographers that shoot seniors are now offering a disc with low-res (72 ppi and small size) images for Myspace, Facebook, etc. Just include it with your package and price accordingly.

I doubt now that she has them up there you'll get her to remove them.

[dufrenbk]

In my opinion, she paid for the photo session and prints, so I would not worry about her using it on a personal web site. Seems she should have the right to.

Joe

The way I look at it, she paid for the PRINTS, not the right to do whatever she wants with them. If she scans them and they come out crappy looking (which they did), guess who they reflect on... ME. "O, he took those pictures? Man those look bad, I'll never go to him...". Myspace now has a direct link I believe to print the picture straight from a picture page. If someone prints that picture off that page for free, guess what, I lose a sale. And trust me, I have family members that print lots of photos straight from Myspace.

Lesson learned for next time: Make them sign a contract that states your policy on scanning prints.

A lot of photographers that shoot seniors are now offering a disc with low-res (72 ppi and small size) images for Myspace, Facebook, etc. Just include it with your package and price accordingly.

I doubt now that she has them up there you'll get her to remove them.

I will most likely start offering the low res small pics as you suggested. That seems to be the only way to somewhat stop them. Any idea how many pixels I would need to size them down to to prevent them from even being able to print a decent 4x6?

[kauffman v36]

being a photog i agree somewhat but losing a sale i think not. if i pay xx amount for senior pictures and i want to make one my myspace default i shouldnt have to pay if i can just scan an original. it wont be good quality, so if someone decides to print itll be ****ty so good luck to them. i dnt think pictures printed from myspace reflect on you as a photographer as much as you think.

[Mike30D]

I will most likely start offering the low res small pics as you suggested. That seems to be the only way to somewhat stop them. Any idea how many pixels I would need to size them down to to prevent them from even being able to print a decent 4x6?

I'm not sure how you edit your pictures but after I export mine out of Lightroom at 800 ppi. When I open them up in Photoshop I can just resize them to 72 ppi and that takes the image down to 315 px. x 210 px. You could also crop them to (wallet size) 2.5 in. x 3.5 in. @ 72 ppi. Either way, if they try to go up in size the file will distort and become pixelated.

You could also have your lab spray your prints with different textures.

[dufrenbk]

OK, so someway or another they're most likely gonna get the pictures onto Myspace. I would rather give them a CD with the picture on it than have them scan it. Trust me, the scan was pretty bad, and I don't even want the possibility of someone seeing that bad quality and pointing their finger at me. Now, the question is, how do I go about doing this? Do I just give them smaller sized pics to where they can't print even a 4x6 out of it, or do I watermark it? I know some people don't like to have a photographer's name all across their pics. I'm trying to even apply this logic to my non-senior clients. Do I just give my prices and don't care what they do with the prints after I get the money?

[tmoore99]

Do I just give my prices and don't care what they do with the prints after I get the money?

That's the only realistic option if your not dealing with images and clients worth going to court over.
I've been making some burger money with photos I took for a ballroom dance event. Some of the people 'get' the fact that I put time and effort into creating good, print/frame worthy images. They gladly give me $20+/- for a CD and/or prints that would have cost lots more had a pro photographer been contracted to photo the event. Other people think they're 'sticking it to the man' by dup'ing the CD and printing stuff on plain paper on their home printer.
There's just not much you can do about the way people think.

[g-money]

I actually include a disk of up to 10 pics, they choose, for the kids to post on myspace or facebook as part of my senior package. I resize them and put a watermark with my web address across the bottom of the pictures. They kids love it, it gives me advertising. and If they want to print a 4x6 with my logo on it so be it.

Greg

[Blue S2]

Times are changing. I would include a CD with selected images at a low to medium resolution files on there. Nothing that can be printed bigger than a 4x6. Most people don't want huge files anyways. Making money from "print sales" is changing as the "photo album" of yesteryear is changing. Don't include the whole shoot, but again 5 - 10 shots that were the best. You will keep your clients happy. Watermarks...im half and half. The most I usually do is list my web address in a small font size, half transparent, at the bottom. Its there for people, but doesnt interfere with the image. WOrd of mouth is going to be stronger than people seeing a prominent watermark.

In fact, if other people see such a watermark, they might expect their own pictures to have that and they won't "want their pictures to look like that." Digital cameras have changed the game. Anyone can take a decent picture. Good photographers make stunning pictures and art. You get what you pay for. I tell customers i don't care what they do with the low and medium resolution shots. IF they want to print 4x6 images, they can buy them through my site directly...or they can take the CD to a local shop and do it themselves.

I don't offer guarantees on the work of other print labs unless I create the prints. I also highly encourage large prints of 8x10 or greater to be done through me. I explain my processes and sell why my large prints are superior to the drugstore prints. I show examples of large prints. Ide rather them buy one large print from me than try to nickel and dime for scans, small prints, and CDs. It's a waste of my time.

[HammerCope]

You are right they should be paying you for the right to post them on myspace facebook or what ever is next. Some of the rodeo photogrphers I work with have prices of $10-$15per picture of low resolution pic. Thats what I plan to start charging soon.

[Tarzanman]

I think Blue S2 is the only one on the thread who "gets it."

[hawkeye60]

Whatever you try do to try and stop them, people are going to figure out a way around it. Add some low-rez images specifically for Facebook and charge a little extra for the service. There's an old saying, "If you can't fight them, join them".

[NYC2BGI]

I think Blue S2 is the only one on the thread who "gets it."Yep.

[Blue S2]

Even a right click protected image can be print-screen captured, upsized in photoshop cleanly if needed enough for web use and printed small or posted anywhere. 1200 pixels to a side is still decently large for web viewing. You really don't need to push things that far.

Someone posting their picture on myspace without permission is going to do what? You lose sales of prints? Hard argument now a days. Do you take action? Against who? Some teen that had their senior shots done? At my school we just lined up and some lifetouch employee pulled the shutter release. Thats that.

Make your money on your time initially. Residual income is going to be a tougher catch today. You are the service, not your prints or pictures anymore. Sell your time there. To general portrait consumers, they will always expect a lot. Give them good solid artistic images that are inspiring. Give them the pictures, but seal the deal on you. They need YOU for images. Otherwise you won't be having any repeat business or referrals. I have only heard "wow I love this fantastic print you made of me!" once. No one cares. Its framed and on the wall. No one ever touches it again. (I wonder why I still print and proof to fanatical standards?)

However, when clients say, "wow...ive never seen myself like this before." Your job is done right. That will sell you to someone else, and sell you again and again. Sell the relationship, the service, and the uniqueness. Differentiate based on what people can get nowhere else...you.

Something to think about when pricing and making packages.