Am I pro material? C&C feedback

[tmoore99]

POTN has been an awesome learning experience for me the past few months. I'd appreciate insightful feedback on my current and potential life as a 'photographer'.
For reference, I peaked as a green box mode GWC with these photos taken last Thanksgiving. Since then I've upgraded gear, learned enough to use 'M' mode, and got formally hired to do a shoot. Kewl. Pursuant to that, I talked to the veteran pro who transformed those clicks into commercial print for a local magazine and got a substantial confidence boost.
What do you think? Should I get serious about stepping out of the green box and getting compensation for my photo work?
I know there's a lot of room for PP improvement, but wanna know what you think about my eye for imaging. I've got tough skin. :)

Link removed, thread dead

Thank for previous feedback.

[Zansho]

A pro at doing what? Illustrative, commercial, portrait, landscape, what? You also need to learn the business side of being a photographer - being a professional photographer probably is 80% business, 20% shooting.

I realize this sounds like a dream job, where you get paid to take photos - and to be honest, your work at the moment is... well, snapshot quality at best. Improve your flash use, learn how to use it off camera and bounce it, learn more about post work, and the business side of the job before you consider a career as a pro.

[Mark Anthony]

+1

I don't see any commercial value in those images

[Mark Anthony]

+1

I don't see any commercial value in those images

[tmoore99]

Thanks for the feedback. Let me re-emphasize, these are green box snapshots. I've been doing that for a long time and recently people are coming to me requesting my services for pay. What I'm really asking is whether the professional photography community would see potential in my GWC snapshots.


A pro at doing what? Illustrative, commercial, portrait, landscape, what?


Commercial, portrait and documentary.

Re: 80% business, 20% shooting
Technically, I'm a published proprofessional photographer; primarily because I'm professionally minded and a GWC that has some gear my non photo career affords me. In other words, I've got the 80% in the bag. The artistic eye is what I'm seeking feedback on. Technique is a work in progress, and I'm debating how vigorously to pursue it.

Thanks

[Mike]

I may be being dumb here but what is GWC?

I'm afraid I have to echo the others' sentiments here that the examples you posted were average.

[dollei]

as far as an "artistic" perspective, i'd work on the composition. like others have stated, these seem more like everyday snapshots than photos worth any value. there are distractions in the backgrounds along with objects being cut off, etc. also, lighting was direct, the lobsters were oof, as were the teddy bears, the last one has no point of interest, etc. little things like that can go a long way if done right!

[RolyRatman]

A long reply from me and for that I am sorry, but in a nutshell it is the advice that was offered to me when I got my first DSLR..

I think GWC is Guy With Camera, proberly refering to an average Joe that owns a camera and shoots with it in fully automatic. I am proberly wrong but that's how I understood it...

Have you got any links to the photos that you had published, for me personally (And I'm no pro) but the pictures you linked to are at best fun family shots and I have to agree with the others that there is very little if any commercial value in them. I assume you have more pictures as your gear list states you have a 5D and the EXIF on the pictures says Rebel.

Right for some advice that I have found works for me....

Have a trawl through the various forums on here that you have interest in, for example People and Pets sections and look at the quality of the captures on there, you will learn a lot about composition and how things like depth of field can tranform a average snapshot into a winner,

I have only shot one session where I was being paid and I can tell you that those who say taking the pictures is only 20% of the business are not wrong. For example I shot someones pet dog for them (with a camera) and when discussing their requirements and what they were looking for I honestly came away thinking "How am I going to capture what they are looking for", because it's not all about taking a technically correct exposure of their pet but capturing the personality. You have to try and make a photgraphic record of how they see their best friend and it's not easy.

Along with that you have to make money, there is no point snapping away for 4 hours and 4 days processing them for $20, so you need to know how much to charge to make any profit, you need to be able to produce high quality prints for the client, have contracts so both parties have some form of security that states who retains the right to the images and what they can be used for etc.

On the surface it looks like you take some pictures, print them off and sell them but honestly the reality is a minefield..

With that being said, someone else pointed out in a thread the other day that pictures only need to be as good as the bad taste of the client so I guess anything is possible.

Get out of the green box, using it is letting your camera decide how the finished pictures look. Try the other modes like AV, TV and Manual which will show you how adjusting shutter speed, Aperture and ISO can have effects on how the finished pictures look, Understanding Exposure by Brian Peterson is an excellent book which takes you through the process of creative photography and will give you a better knowlege of what the difference is between a snap shot and a saleable image.

You will enter a stage where I am at the moment which is 'The more I learn the less I know' stage, this is where your not really happy with anything you shoot as when you look at the images on the computer your harsh on yourself 'I should of used a slower shutter speed', 'I should of tried for more depth of field' etc. But by sticking with it through this stage you should end up with a good idea of how to capture what you or a client would like to see from a particular capture and having the technical skill to pull it off.

But the most important advice anyone on here will give you is, SHOOT, SHOOT and SHOOT, you will soon see a marked improvement..

Sorry if this isn't the sort of advice you were looking for I figured that it would be more informative than simply saying I don't see anything worth selling. If it's not what your looking for just ignore me and I will crawl back under my rock...:)

Please keep posting your images though and show us how you develop, it's an interesting journey that you will never stop learning from....:)

[Stealthy Ninja]

No, you're not there yet. :)

[Stealthy Ninja]

No, you're not there yet. :)

Though... if people want to pay for it, that's their choice.

[jbrown7815]

Is this a joke?

[jbrown7815]

If you are not joking, no you are not near pro material. You have much to work on, and you should start by looking at pro's pictures/portfolios and compare them to yours.

Good luck on your learning journey! :D

[Cosha]

Chase the dream not the money...

[evolved]

IMO no where near close, my wife takes better shots with her S3IS.... but we all know quality doesn't matter it's all about how you market yourself. There are some truly awful "pro" photographers out there that make an excellent living selling themselves.

[NicholasP]

Being completely honest - I'd work on things a bit more before marketing yourself as a professional. Those photos have nothing exceptional about them in my opinion.

Just constructive criticism. Keep practicing though. Shoot - Shoot - Shoot and find your niche.

[Tarzanman]

I'll give you some criticism...and i'm not even a pro!

Your pix seem to be all over the place. Some are soft, some are poorly lit, poorly exposed, and others seem to be 'random' shots without a strong sense of composition (what you're trying to get across in the photo).

Even pro's who don't take spectacular photos exhibit more consistency in the quality (either technical or artistic) of their shots.

You'll learn more from a bad shot in a creative mode (like Av) than a bad shot in automatic mode. Play around.

[tmoore99]

Is this a joke?


Haha, no. It's an ill concieved post (by me) gone horribly wrong. :oops:

I should have been more clear and said, compared to the snapshots your friends and neghbors take with their P&S cameras, how do mine rate. In rereading what I actually posted that request was convoluted at best. My bad.

I'll post some of my relatively 'pro' work in a minute and get some feed back on those. That seems to be message I sent above.

[tmoore99]

There are some truly awful "pro" photographers out there that make an excellent living selling themselves.

To further clarify, I'm on the fringe of being 'that guy', but don't want to be. I've gotta decide if I'm gonna get serious or bow down and simply enjoy the pats on the back I get for my amateur photos.

[Draigon]

Now that you have "mastered M mode" you need to master the fine art of AWB.

[hawkeye60]

I should have been more clear and said, compared to the snapshots your friends and neghbors take with their P&S cameras, how do mine rate.

My answer would be that they look pretty much the same as the snapshots my friends and neighbors take. Honestly, I wouldn't want my name on any of those photos, but that's up to you, and if people are willing to pay you for snapshots, it's up to them.

[jbrown7815]

Now that you have "mastered M mode" you need to master the fine art of AWB.
hsugh

[Clint]

First. Shoot
Second. Shoot
and Third. Shoot some more, practice, practice, practice and when you think you have got it down, practice some more. ;)

[tmoore99]

OK, I think this is the type of stuff you folks expected to see. I'll go with the flow.
The first headshots are older. Full auto, direct flash. She knew what I was capable of from some of my other pictures. She requested a favor and I happily obliged.
The rest are newer and represent what I get when I make an effort to be a 'photographer' rather than GWC. (guy with camera)

Look See... (http://rollthestone.com/misc/potneval2/potneval2.htm)

Thanks for your patience.

[Alleh]

Err no. keep practicing for another few years.

[jbrown7815]

If you have a Canon 5D why does your exif data say Rebel?

[tmoore99]

If you have a Canon 5D why does your exif data say Rebel?

The pics before Jan this year are Rebel shots. If you look at the second link I just posted, everything past the first headshots are 5D.

[alt4852]

OK, I think this is the type of stuff you folks expected to see. I'll go with the flow.
The first headshots are older. Full auto, direct flash. She knew what I was capable of from some of my other pictures. She requested a favor and I happily obliged.
The rest are newer and represent what I get when I make an effort to be a 'photographer' rather than GWC. (guy with camera)

Look See... (http://rollthestone.com/misc/potneval2/potneval2.htm)

Thanks for your patience.

after looking through your original post, the burning question i had was why you would post what you considered snapshots when you wanted public opinions on whether or not you were shooting at a professional level.

after thumbing through your second set, i'd have to agree with most others here and say that you have a bit of work ahead of you. there are many flash tutorials on the forums that can help you with creating more pleasing tones with your 430ex, and your post processing techniques also need to be improved. as for having an artistic eye, i suppose it's subjective from person to person. i personally don't find many of the angles or crops that you used to be appealing, but others may have different opinions. my advice would simply be to keep on developing your skills until you're more familiar with what elements are utilized to create well-photographed pictures. your gallery still exhibits many characteristics that i would consider to be amateur (your shooting angles, use of flash, posing, post processing, and composition). this doesn't mean you don't have an eye for photography, but rather that your skills may need to be developed more if you're looking to shoot professionally and compete with others.

you did mention that you had tough skin but i want to make sure that i mention that i'm not trying to be mean. i'm just trying to offer some constructive criticism and like a few others have also stated, i don't think your photographic skills are ready for the professional market.

[tmoore99]

after looking through your original post, the burning question i had was why you would post what you considered snapshots when you wanted public opinions on whether or not you were shooting at a professional level.

after thumbing through your second set, i'd have to agree with most others here and say that you have a bit of work ahead of you. there are many flash tutorials on the forums that can help you with creating more pleasing tones with your 430ex, and your post processing techniques also need to be improved. as for having an artistic eye, i suppose it's subjective from person to person. i personally don't find many of the angles or crops that you used to be appealing, but others may have different opinions. my advice would simply be to keep on developing your skills until you're more familiar with what elements are utilized to create well-photographed pictures. your gallery still exhibits many characteristics that i would consider to be amateur (your shooting angles, use of flash, posing, post processing, and composition). this doesn't mean you don't have an eye for photography, but rather that your skills may need to be developed more if you're looking to shoot professionally and compete with others.

you did mention that you had tough skin but i want to make sure that i mention that i'm not trying to be mean. i'm just trying to offer some constructive criticism and like a few others have also stated, i don't think your photographic skills are ready for the professional market.

Thanks for that. Noteworthy is my choice of those particular photos (first batch) was based partly on convenience. They were all in one folder that I have set for my screen saver. Learning point, I look at those pictures and see the warmth and love of family indoors on a cold, blustery day outside. I'm relying on memory and personal emotion to 'see' whats not there for the normal viewer.

[snyderman]

Your initial post is of great personal interest to me. Having bought my first DSLR exactly the same time as you did, (Thanksgiving week 2008) and learning as much as possible her at POTN, I can say there is a world of difference in the output we're getting.

I'm not one to get into a 'measuring of male anatomy war' with anybody, but feel that comparing your work to someone with equal experience (and similar gear) might provide a yardstick with which to measure your current level of expertise.

And let's be clear here--I've gotten some good shots (good by MY standards) but am nowhere near some of the work posted here by amatures/hobbiests with much more experience than I. Do I consider myself (at this point) to have 'professional potential?' Nope. Not yet. Too much to learn.

Here are a couple of examples of my 'snapshots.' Compare these to yours considering they were taken by a guy with exactly the same length of experience as you and with similar gear:

1) Easter Weekend 2009

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/dsnyder160/DPP_0010TIF.jpg

2) March 2009

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/dsnyder160/DPP_0027TIF.jpg
3) Jan 2009

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/dsnyder160/BlakeBW_edited-2.jpg

4) December 2009

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/dsnyder160/IMG_0722.jpg

Four random shots. Learning and trying to get better. Go back and look through your shots and see if you're getting better. Go through some of the lens example threads and compare your pics to what you see there as well. Will certainly provide a yardstick for you to compare your shots with.

Am I pro material? Heck NO!!! But I'm learning and perceive my work to be getting better on a couple of levels!

dave

[SonicZoom]

nope

[mutau052]

I truthfully would be disappointed if these were my family "snapshots". I mean have you even looked through some of the galleries listed in this forum.

I hate to sound harsh, cause I'm not the best photographer, but at least look through the portraits and attempt to mimic them.

[Karl Johnston]

I suppose you could call yourself a pro, I mean, what's stopping you?

If you have 80% of your business side sorted out, set up a business and try to make it succeed.

Maybe you will get a lot of business, but is your work quality? Can anyone honestly put a scale on what's artistic and whats not? That's a difficult question in itself to answer. Personally I'd suggest you shoot more and study other photographer's in a genre that you enjoy doing and like doing (myself as an example I study these three:

David Cartier (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcartiersr/sets/72157594420812359/)
Rags (http://www.flickr.com/people/rags1969/)
Orvaratli (http://www.flickr.com/photos/orvaratli/sets/72157602243148751

/)

As I strive to be the best aurora photographer in the world.

Learn what you want to do; landscape, people, aviation...study the masters...learn techniques...play with the techniques and come up with new ones.

I think there's nothing stopping you from calling yourself a pro, setting up a service or offering your skills out, and then doing professional photography as a career. Granted whether you succeed or fail is in the public's eye of what they want.

You can be a crazy photographer but never make a dime.

[alectra82]

A long reply from me and for that I am sorry, but in a nutshell it is the advice that was offered to me when I got my first DSLR..

I think GWC is Guy With Camera, proberly refering to an average Joe that owns a camera and shoots with it in fully automatic. I am proberly wrong but that's how I understood it...

Have you got any links to the photos that you had published, for me personally (And I'm no pro) but the pictures you linked to are at best fun family shots and I have to agree with the others that there is very little if any commercial value in them. I assume you have more pictures as your gear list states you have a 5D and the EXIF on the pictures says Rebel.

Right for some advice that I have found works for me....

Have a trawl through the various forums on here that you have interest in, for example People and Pets sections and look at the quality of the captures on there, you will learn a lot about composition and how things like depth of field can tranform a average snapshot into a winner,

I have only shot one session where I was being paid and I can tell you that those who say taking the pictures is only 20% of the business are not wrong. For example I shot someones pet dog for them (with a camera) and when discussing their requirements and what they were looking for I honestly came away thinking "How am I going to capture what they are looking for", because it's not all about taking a technically correct exposure of their pet but capturing the personality. You have to try and make a photgraphic record of how they see their best friend and it's not easy.

Along with that you have to make money, there is no point snapping away for 4 hours and 4 days processing them for $20, so you need to know how much to charge to make any profit, you need to be able to produce high quality prints for the client, have contracts so both parties have some form of security that states who retains the right to the images and what they can be used for etc.

On the surface it looks like you take some pictures, print them off and sell them but honestly the reality is a minefield..

With that being said, someone else pointed out in a thread the other day that pictures only need to be as good as the bad taste of the client so I guess anything is possible.

Get out of the green box, using it is letting your camera decide how the finished pictures look. Try the other modes like AV, TV and Manual which will show you how adjusting shutter speed, Aperture and ISO can have effects on how the finished pictures look, Understanding Exposure by Brian Peterson is an excellent book which takes you through the process of creative photography and will give you a better knowlege of what the difference is between a snap shot and a saleable image.

You will enter a stage where I am at the moment which is 'The more I learn the less I know' stage, this is where your not really happy with anything you shoot as when you look at the images on the computer your harsh on yourself 'I should of used a slower shutter speed', 'I should of tried for more depth of field' etc. But by sticking with it through this stage you should end up with a good idea of how to capture what you or a client would like to see from a particular capture and having the technical skill to pull it off.

But the most important advice anyone on here will give you is, SHOOT, SHOOT and SHOOT, you will soon see a marked improvement..

Sorry if this isn't the sort of advice you were looking for I figured that it would be more informative than simply saying I don't see anything worth selling. If it's not what your looking for just ignore me and I will crawl back under my rock...:)

Please keep posting your images though and show us how you develop, it's an interesting journey that you will never stop learning from....:)

Great post!

[CannedHeat]

Chase the dream not the money...

... and make it your OWN dream, not a dream based upon somebody else's opinion of your dream.

[RolyRatman]

Great post!

Thanks :) Seemed like a good idea at the time and it's basically a summary of my time in photography so far, but to be honest I'm not sure if the original post was a wind up or not now!!

[Cliqtography]

"I shot someones pet dog for them (with a camera) "

haha.. i like that. And I completely agree with your entire post.

[jgrussell]

I should have been more clear and said, compared to the snapshots your friends and neghbors take with their P&S cameras, how do mine rate.Even by this scale, these shots are average at best.

[bwolford]

No. These look like snapshots.

PP is not the problem.

Were these shots really used for commercial purposes? How so?

POTN has been an awesome learning experience for me the past few months. I'd appreciate insightful feedback on my current and potential life as a 'photographer'.
For reference, I peaked as a green box mode GWC with these photos taken last Thanksgiving. (http://rollthestone.com/misc/potneval/potneval.htm) Since then I've upgraded gear, learned enough to use 'M' mode, and got formally hired to do a shoot. Kewl. Pursuant to that, I talked to the veteran pro who transformed those clicks into commercial print for a local magazine and got a substantial confidence boost.
What do you think? Should I get serious about stepping out of the green box and getting compensation for my photo work?
I know there's a lot of room for PP improvement, but wanna know what you think about my eye for imaging. I've got tough skin. :) Click. (http://rollthestone.com/misc/potneval/potneval.htm) Thanks!

[ChrisRabior]

Aside from composition and focus, I think the next thing you need to tackle is white balance. The drastic difference in the two 'portrait' examples you had make it painfully obvious.

Be careful about marketing yourself as a pro. If you land a job and can't deliver, it could put you in a situation you won't ever want to be a part of.. particularly if your client had a pressing deadline and a good legal team.

[bwolford]

I should have been more clear and said, compared to the snapshots your friends and neghbors take with their P&S cameras, how do mine rate. In rereading what I actually posted that request was convoluted at best. My bad.

Still no. They compare nicely with my GWC friends.

[bwolford]

Better and some potential is demonstrated, but practice makes perfect.

We all shoot GWC shots from time to time, but when I'm showing my work for C&C I want to provide my best. If this second round is your best you have some work to do. I DO see people getting paid for those kinds of shots, but it's typically low ball pricing, friend for a friend kind of arrangements. But do you really want them to represent you as a true professional? I hope not.

For what it's worth, 5 and 7 of the second series are the best of your shots. All the rest, I'd put in snap/shot category. That corporate shot with the couple, you need to learn to bounce you flash...

OK, I think this is the type of stuff you folks expected to see. I'll go with the flow.
The first headshots are older. Full auto, direct flash. She knew what I was capable of from some of my other pictures. She requested a favor and I happily obliged.
The rest are newer and represent what I get when I make an effort to be a 'photographer' rather than GWC. (guy with camera)

Look See... (http://rollthestone.com/misc/potneval2/potneval2.htm)

Thanks for your patience.

[Trainboy]

I was going to call troll from the sig, but then he fixed that up.

[THIEF]

gonna have to go with everyone else here.Those pics look like everyday shots w/ a p&s.
Nothing special at all.Need better composition.Im fairly new,only been shooting for about six months,but i really try to stay in M,AV,Tv mode and continually learn.

alot goes in to photography,I studied every book i could get my hands on for months before i even got my 40d.Good luck though someday will get as good as the rest of these people on here!

[Mark Anthony]

I think this post is a wind up, the first examples are shocking, and when told, the pw then turns from 'am i pro' to 'are these good gwc shots', then after criticism posts some more, that to be honest look like they're by someone else as there's so much difference between the two sets.

Someone put me out of my misery and tell me this is a joke?

[tmoore99]

I think this post is a wind up...

My handling of this thread made it very troll'ish. For that i appologize and will lock the thread.
As someone said, "the more i learn, the less I know". That reality is hitting me hard and out of anxiety I posted in a nebulous, discordant way. Even 'shocking' as was mentioned. All very troll'ish.

Was this a joke? Not intentionally, but in hindsite, yes. "Hey look at these pictures I took of my dog and tell me if I should send a resume to National Geographic."
How embarassing. Please accept my appologies for the bandwith consumed and laugh with me as I come to grips with what a boner I pulled here.

P.S. Apparently the marketplace is the only place you can lock your threads. Wow, what a newb i'm proving to be.

[snakekid]

according to urban diction GWC has a negative connotation implies you are a pervert.
Credit urban dictionary
Guy With Camera

Commonly used in the modelling/photographer biz, 'GWC' is any poser/creep with a digital camera pretending to be a pro/semi-pro photographer. With the introduction of digital cameras, GWC's have appeared like an explosion in a toy store.

GWC's typically steal the work of others and don't have any references.
"Some GWC asked me to 'test' for him, what a creep."

"What's with all the GWC's on OneModelPlace.com, lately?"

"Damn GWC's are ruining it for the rest of us." - Pro Photographers

[Zansho]

Nah, when I hear/see GWC, I just think of a person who puts his fancy Canon EOS 5D Mark II on full green box mode 100% of the time and just presses the shutter button in hopes he gets lucky with one fantastic shot.

Difference is, GWC depend on luck ALL the time. Professionals make their own luck XD.

OP, while I realize you're being.. serious in asking for evaluation in regards to seeing if you're ready to be a professional, your photos do not reflect any progression from the year that you've supposedly been shooting. I know we can't possibly expect you to be a master of lighting right off the bat, but if you've been shooting a while and exploring different modes, like M, AV, TV and learning how to use your flash properly, you'd be improving.

Everything needs work - White Balance, composition, focusing, lighting - really, you have a long way to go before your work measures up to something that WE photographers consider pro level material. The general public, on the other hand.. might just fork over some money for marginally better snapshots.

You DO need the other 20% to make the 80% of the marketing work though. There's no hiding bad photography, I'm just being honest.

[Mike McCusker]

"To err is human, to forgive is Divine"

[mutau052]

My handling of this thread made it very troll'ish. For that i appologize and will lock the thread.
As someone said, "the more i learn, the less I know". That reality is hitting me hard and out of anxiety I posted in a nebulous, discordant way. Even 'shocking' as was mentioned. All very troll'ish.

Was this a joke? Not intentionally, but in hindsite, yes. "Hey look at these pictures I took of my dog and tell me if I should send a resume to National Geographic."
How embarassing. Please accept my appologies for the bandwith consumed and laugh with me as I come to grips with what a boner I pulled here.

P.S. Apparently the marketplace is the only place you can lock your threads. Wow, what a newb i'm proving to be.

Thank God, I would say work on your skills and start posting in the c&c forum for help on your pics.