People are so cheap, Not willing to pay anything

[EricKonieczny]

I saw this ad on Craigslist. It made me laugh, but also kinda makes me mad.

My husband and I and our 3 dogs are looking for a photographer to take a "family portrait" of us near a park at our house in Highlands Ranch. We need someone who will be able to actually get all 3 dogs to look at the camera. We just need 1 or 2 good shots, maybe an hour's worth of work at the most. If you can just snap the shots we will get them delveloped. $25 plus we will pay for the film. email me at xxxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com Thanks!


I also saw the other topic on here about doing real estate photography, and it worked out to about $10 an hour also.

See topic here. Looking for assignments?

[charlesu]

Well, you get what you pay for.....

[Ballen Photo]

I saw this ad on Craigslist. It made me laugh, but also kinda makes me mad.

My husband and I and our 3 dogs are looking for a photographer to take a "family portrait" of us near a park at our house in Highlands Ranch. We need someone who will be able to actually get all 3 dogs to look at the camera. We just need 1 or 2 good shots, maybe an hour's worth of work at the most. If you can just snap the shots we will get them delveloped. $25 plus we will pay for the film. email me at xxxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com Thanks!


I also saw the other topic on here about doing real estate photography, and it worked out to about $10 an hour also.



GEEZE! And the gas you will use to get there is over $2.50 a gallon? This person is a regular comedian. :rolleyes:
-Bruce

[IndyJeff]

I wouldn't be surprised if she gets someone to do it. The guy who does it will think he is making good money at $25 too.

I imagine she has contacted a local photographer who has quoted her a price of $125 or better. I wonder if she and her husband would do their job for a rock bottom price like that?

[S230]

Sheese... $25???... dog food cost more....
Did the ad say anything about the dogs being real or just a statue?

Unless he means $25 per dog then maybe but otherwise it's too little. Getting two dogs to look at the camera is already hard enough but all three?

[rich29488]

As an offset printer we often run into this problem. Actually, I closed my retail center because I got tired of people telling me "I can get copies for 5¢ at Staples". Well guess what! My revenue went down (I expected by 50%, but it only went down by about 10%), but my profits went up!

Often people want to buy things from Wal-Mart because of the low prices (I bet you even go there). Yet they buy about 80% of their product from china which pays its factory workers 5¢ an hour with no benefits. I often think about putting an add in the job sections with the job described as; Position available, Must work 10 hour days, wage is 5¢ hour no benefits, college preferred. Wonder if I would get any response.

[IndyJeff]

I don't leave the porch for less than $700.00.

In other words.....If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

[robertwgross]

In other words.....If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

If you want to run with the big dogs, you have to lift your leg up high.

---Bob Gross---

[cactusclay]

Humm, I wonder what Gary Fong would charge for that.

[Moments]

I get people with animals like that all the time. I get calls from people asking if I have a shooting space and not just an office, to which I answer yes. (I'm one of the only studios in my area with a large shooting area, 27x30.) They then ask if I could do a family portrait with dogs, to which I also say yes, I have in the past. They then ask about the price and I give them one for a outdoor location price to which they usually gasp at. They then ask about shooting in the studio, to which I also give a price. They then ask "Is it more due to the dogs" and I say no, it's my family portrait sitting fee rate. They then usually say that the Chain studio at the mall wants considerably less to do a family portrait. To that I say, then go there, to which they say, "we can't bring the dogs in the mall" and I say, I know, when to you want to book. They usually say "I'll call back when I know when we can come in." I really don't need those type of clients, but sometimes it is fun to play with them on the phone. Sometimes I don't know what people are thinking. To get an electrical outlet replaced it cost's what, at least $50?

[BigRed450]

So true, so true..
If you charge too little you'll always be really busy, but won't make any money. You'll be busy only because you're cheap and that type of customer doesn't care about quality only money. If you stick to your rates and let the those Walmart customers go, you'll have more time to make more money for those that appreciate good work and are willing to pay for it. This in turn will make you feel much better about what you're doing. Which brings me to the following paragraph...

Progression of a photographer

1. You start out with very little knowledge
2. You start doing research and realize it is much more difficult than you imagined.
3. You begin to pick up knowledge, the technical side of things.
4. You begin to use the technical knowledge and it works.
5. You start to feel as if you are mastering the technical
6. You begin to feel you know a LOT.
7. You start posting images that you are proud of.
8. You KNOW your images are better than much of what you see.
9. Family and friends start to oooo and aaaahhh at your images
10. Pro's don't seem to acknowledge you.
11. You think it's jealousy.
12. You reach a valley in your photography. You are starting to notice that your images aren't quite what you thought they would be.
13. You start to notice that, in your images, the models hands, the composition, the depth...isn't quite what you wanted.
14. Even your very favorite photograph isn't as good as you once thought. "I should have . . . "
15. You are now completely dissatisfied with everything you have ever shot.
16. You begin to realize that your photography is NOTHING compared to the masters.
17. You begin to see the differences in your photography compared to what you see published.
18. Now you are beginning to learn.

[tim]

Well said Jeff - I guess i'm around #9 or #12.

[CappuccinoDavid]

When I was starting off I was getting 40.00 USDollars a roll and that a long time ago. In the 80s. Now they want to pay less.

[jdbulldog]

I recently went through this with a wedding bid. I know that I am one of the least expensive photographers in the Dallas area especially for the level of service I provide. I am basically making enough out of the deal to pay for my equipment, business expenses, and roughly $60.00 per hour. (I make $75.00 per hour tutoring advanced physics so I probably need to raise my wedding prices.)

Anyway the couple told me that they were on a budget and that they wanted a very limited time. (Later I found out that the wedding was at the Dallas Arberteum which is definitely not cheap to rent.) I basically cut my price in half which definitely cut my profit margin down but they were a referral from a close family friend. They said they would call me back, but they wanted to talk to a few more photographers. I even gave them the names of a few competitors I highly recommend when I am booked.

When they called back they told me that the other photographers were lower priced, however they liked my work. Here is the quote from the groom, "Can you be more competitive and shoot the wedding for $500." I about passed out. The wedding was going to be over 40 miles away on a Saturday evening with over 200 guests.

I promptly told them that I had since booked another engagement and to go with one of the other photographers. The line went quiet for what seemed like an eternity. Then the groom said, "Well, do you think you could still squeeze us in for a short period of time." I almost laughed but politely informed him that once I take a job I book the whole day so as not to have any interruptions and to give the couple a fantastic wedding photographic collection.

It is really cheap when you try to haggle with a photographer who was already trying to cut you a deal.

I am almost ready to throw in the towel and give up the wedding business. I see more and more of this type of behavior as the digital cameras have proliferated. Everyone thinks they can be a photographer with their $100.00 point and shoot 2 mp cameras.

I can only imagine the comments Bloo Dog has gotten through the years.

J.D.

[CappuccinoDavid]

I think I'll get into wedding photography, I'll go to WalMart and buy a cheap camera put the images on cd and charge them about 175.95. That should get them by and they can go to WalMart and get their own pictures made with that fansy machine they have I think its about 4.95 for an 8x10. And if you believe that one I tell another...

[jdbulldog]

To be competitive now is very difficult for that exact reason. In fact I am having to use Sam's Club to print my initial proof set so I can be competitive. I then use a professional lab for enlargements and reprints.

Again, if you are starting a photography business, my recommendation is don't. It is isn't worth the hassle. I am about to quit and just shoot stuff for fun again. I have 4 more weddings scheduled through October and after that I am going to enjoy time with the family. I am about to have the first child and I think I will have a great subject to keep my skills sharp.

J.D.

[mjordan]

The person making $10K a wedding looks down their nose at the person making only $5k a wedding. The $5k person looks down their nose at the person only making $1400 a wedding, who looks down their nose at the person making only $500 who looks down their nose at the person just trying to get into photography and will shoot anything that moves (or doesn't) just for the experience.

With the exception of a few very fortunate people, sometimes those at the top forget that they to started on that bottem rung of the ladder.

And he (or she) who has never tried to get a better price on something their whole life is welcome to cast the first stone.

Mike

[jdbulldog]

Great advice. I wish I had this type of advice before I started 5 years ago with my own business.

I had watched my wedding business being eroded away by lower priced competitors and I wanted to keep up. I wanted to keep 20 weddings a year. Last year I only contracted for 5. This year I tried to be more competitive and I still only contracted for 6. I now know that I have been blinded by this quest and have ultimately put myself in a postion where I don't want to keep going.

I should have realized that I should have kept my price up and if I dropped down to 2 or 3 a year, this would have been the equivalent of the 6 I am contracted to shoot.

I should have recognized that with the proliferation of consumer DSLRs that my wedding business was bound to drop. I have picked up more portrait and sports jobs. I have also supplemented my income with wildlife photography for many applications. I have also branched out away from photography into educational servics. I teach advanced physics and have found a niche for tutoring.

If you are considering opening up a photography business, you need to understand all of the market pressures that will affect your income.

J.D.

[robertwgross]

It is really cheap when you try to haggle with a photographer who was already trying to cut you a deal.

For some people, that is an inherent part of their character.

Those people probably don't get married every day, so they are not aware of the market pricing for wedding photographers.

---Bob Gross---

[robertwgross]

We can quickly pause from this interesting thread with an applicable joke:

The distiguished brain surgeon was having plumbing problems underneath the kitchen sink. He called up a plumber, and the plumber came over immediately. When the plumber got there, the brain surgeon pointed out the problem area with the pipes. The plumber said, "No problem."

The plumber took out his favorite pipe wrench, worked his magic for a few seconds, and then proudly announced, "There, all fixed. My fee is $500."

The brain surgeon was astonished. "You mean $500 for only a few seconds of work? I'm a brain surgeon, and even I don't get paid $500 for only a few seconds!"

The plumber looked at him and said, "Why do you think I got out of the brain surgery profession?"

---Bob Gross---

[sp00g3]

I recently went through this with a wedding bid. I know that I am one of the least expensive photographers in the Dallas area especially for the level of service I provide. I am basically making enough out of the deal to pay for my equipment, business expenses, and roughly $60.00 per hour. (I make $75.00 per hour tutoring advanced physics so I probably need to raise my wedding prices.)

Anyway the couple told me that they were on a budget and that they wanted a very limited time. (Later I found out that the wedding was at the Dallas Arberteum which is definitely not cheap to rent.) I basically cut my price in half which definitely cut my profit margin down but they were a referral from a close family friend. They said they would call me back, but they wanted to talk to a few more photographers. I even gave them the names of a few competitors I highly recommend when I am booked.

When they called back they told me that the other photographers were lower priced, however they liked my work. Here is the quote from the groom, "Can you be more competitive and shoot the wedding for $500." I about passed out. The wedding was going to be over 40 miles away on a Saturday evening with over 200 guests.

I promptly told them that I had since booked another engagement and to go with one of the other photographers. The line went quiet for what seemed like an eternity. Then the groom said, "Well, do you think you could still squeeze us in for a short period of time." I almost laughed but politely informed him that once I take a job I book the whole day so as not to have any interruptions and to give the couple a fantastic wedding photographic collection.

It is really cheap when you try to haggle with a photographer who was already trying to cut you a deal.

I am almost ready to throw in the towel and give up the wedding business. I see more and more of this type of behavior as the digital cameras have proliferated. Everyone thinks they can be a photographer with their $100.00 point and shoot 2 mp cameras.

I can only imagine the comments Bloo Dog has gotten through the years.

J.D.

lmao, I was at a wedding recently and mind you I only have a rebel, (but I have a stroboframe and 550EX as well as some nice lenses.) Another couple there had the Rebel with nothing else but the kit lense. I was talking to them and they were telling me how good they were getting and that they may get into the business. I then showed them what the shots should look like, (I have been into photography for 10 years and digital now for 1.5 years) they then tried to critique my photos. After an hour of shooting the wedding and reception, I asked how they were doing. Apparently they stopped shooting because they didn't undersstand the lighting conditions required a bounce flash. All of there images were coming out with MASSIVE red eye and under exposure (no hack i guess).

Even with the better cameras, people still do't understand the basics. Apparently thats what people are willing to pay for nowadays. Just the basics.

[Avalonthas]

I saw this ad on Craigslist. It made me laugh, but also kinda makes me mad.

My husband and I and our 3 dogs are looking for a photographer to take a "family portrait" of us near a park at our house in Highlands Ranch. We need someone who will be able to actually get all 3 dogs to look at the camera. We just need 1 or 2 good shots, maybe an hour's worth of work at the most. If you can just snap the shots we will get them delveloped. $25 plus we will pay for the film. email me at xxxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com Thanks!


I also saw the other topic on here about doing real estate photography, and it worked out to about $10 an hour also.

See topic here. Looking for assignments?


Make em sign a contract and then later tell them it was the industries best film as they wanted a couple good shots so u wanted quality, and spent 150 bucks on the roll :P

[jdbulldog]

I will look at my pricing over the summer and retool my approach. I am still thinking that it is time to throw in the towel and retire. I have been in this game for over 20 years shooting for newspapers, professional and amatuer sports teams, still life, landscape, etc. I have shot 35 mm from a TS101 Minolta to a Nikon F4 and everything in between. I have run the medium format and large format cameras around to shoot after shoot. And after just a short time in the wedding business I am at my intellectual and physical end. I can understand why people don't do this for long.

I have a set of engagement pictures tomorrow morning and I am really not looking forward to it. (I even love being around this young, sweet couple.) I can't remember a time when I didn't want to pull the cameras out of the bag. I need to just tough it out for a few more months and work out a better system as suggested above. Thanks Bloo Dog for the advice and the vote of confidence.

J.D.

[Conk]

If you want to run with the big dogs, you have to lift your leg up high.

---Bob Gross---

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mike774u]

Progression of a photographer

1. You start out with very little knowledge
2. You start doing research and realize it is much more difficult than you imagined.
3. You begin to pick up knowledge, the technical side of things.
4. You begin to use the technical knowledge and it works.
5. You start to feel as if you are mastering the technical
6. You begin to feel you know a LOT.
7. You start posting images that you are proud of.
8. You KNOW your images are better than much of what you see.
9. Family and friends start to oooo and aaaahhh at your images
10. Pro's don't seem to acknowledge you.
11. You think it's jealousy.
12. You reach a valley in your photography. You are starting to notice that your images aren't quite what you thought they would be.
13. You start to notice that, in your images, the models hands, the composition, the depth...isn't quite what you wanted.
14. Even your very favorite photograph isn't as good as you once thought. "I should have . . . "
15. You are now completely dissatisfied with everything you have ever shot.
16. You begin to realize that your photography is NOTHING compared to the masters.
17. You begin to see the differences in your photography compared to what you see published.
18. Now you are beginning to learn.

Ok I have to ask as I am the newbie around here.... Is there any sort of time frame to this...lol. I just decided to give photography a shot back last Saptemeber. Well besides being a good way to keep my banking account down to a minimum sometimes it gets me frustrated. I read the books and forums then go try what I have read. Then come back just to see slightly blurred pictures or just not the look I was hoping to capture. Its pretty funny, I keep telling everyone..Ypu all have NO IDEA how hard it is until you decide you want to make a really good picture the right way. My hats off to each and every one of Y'all that has mastered the art of capturing light....

[tim]

Has anyone mastered the art?

I made it to step #15 today, maybe 16 :(

[mike774u]

I made it to step #15 today, maybe 16

Wow you are doing good. I think I am stuck between 3 and 4.
I think some have pretty much "mastered" the art...with the help of Photoshop. But as I am learning...just popping a picture into Photoshop sure isn't going to produce an awesome picture unless you really know the "art" of doing so.

[tim]

Try taking theatre pictures, they'll bring you back to earth pretty quickly. I got some really great pictures, but I got a lot of crap too. 10 deleted, 60 not good enough to share and probably will be deleted, 120 good, 20 great. Really wanted a lot more resolution, at least 35mm film, maybe medium format, though the subject wasn't worth the bother.

[Big_B]

The person making $10K a wedding looks down their nose at the person making only $5k a wedding. The $5k person looks down their nose at the person only making $1400 a wedding, who looks down their nose at the person making only $500 who looks down their nose at the person just trying to get into photography and will shoot anything that moves (or doesn't) just for the experience.

With the exception of a few very fortunate people, sometimes those at the top forget that they to started on that bottem rung of the ladder.

And he (or she) who has never tried to get a better price on something their whole life is welcome to cast the first stone.

Mike

Well said :)