180mm macro or 300mm f/4 IS

[jerrythesnake]

HI all, has anyone got any experience with the canon 180mm macro, (can it be handheld) i have the 100mm macro which is excellent but need to be further away from my subjects, ie 5 or 6 feet, will the 180mm be better or the 300mm is f4 lens, but overall the lens has to be handheld in ok light as a tripod is just not feasible, thanks for any help , Jerry

[Jon]

5 or 6 feet and what magnification of the subject? The 180 will require you to be about 15" (360 mm) away for 1:1. The 300 at 1:1 is going to need almost 300 mm of tubes, but you'll have a working distance of around 2 ft.

[jerrythesnake]

Hi Jon, i need to be able to shoot very wary butterflies , this is about the maximum distance(5 feet) i can get to them, but want to fill the frame and obviously get the sharpest image i can?

[Jon]

So we're talking a field of view of about 4-5 in.? and a double-digit D (20D, DR, 10D, DRXT, etc.)? So about 1:6. The 180 will give you that at about (just under) 5 ft. The 300 will work at 8 ft, and focusses (unaided) down to 5 ft. for a little better than 1:3 reproduction. There's not a big difference in weight or price, so I'd be inclined to go with the 300 and hope the IS is enough (it only handles your motion - it will do absolutely nothing about the butterfly's wings fluttering in the breeze).

[DocFrankenstein]

Hi Jon, i need to be able to shoot very wary butterflies , this is about the maximum distance(5 feet) i can get to them, but want to fill the frame and obviously get the sharpest image i can?
300 f/4 won't give you five feet.

You need to approach your subjects more carefully. Try the morning, while it's cold and their metabolism is low. They won't be able to fly and will let you get much closer.

Cheers

[Jon]

300 f/4 won't give you five feet.

You need to approach your subjects more carefully. Try the morning, while it's cold and their metabolism is low. They won't be able to fly and will let you get much closer.

Cheers

According to Canon's EF Lens Guide, closest focussing distance for the 300 f/4 IS is 1.5 m/4.9 ft.

[CyberDyneSystems]

300 f/4 won't give you five feet.


Why do you say this Doc?

My specs say it focuses down to 4.9 feet.. (1.5 meters)

**doh.. Jon was quicker***

I know that the 300mm f/4L IS is all the rage for macro work in some circles..

I actually use the 100-400mm L IS for similar reasons that one would chose the 300mm.. (long focal length,. tight minimum focus, and Image stabilization)

I am sure the 300mm will do it better than the 100-400mm for a number of reasons.. the 300mm with rings and or a 500D would obviously bring you even closer.

Also recall that the 300mm f/4L IS works wonderfully and practically seemlessly with the 1.4X T-Con... and T-cons do not effect that 4.9' focus distance.. thus you can have a 420mm f/5.6L IS with the two combined focusing as close as the 300mm alone.

And with the T-con.. unlike with rings or 500D,. you will not lose your infinity focus range.

[jerrythesnake]

thanks for the info guys, but would this setup be practical handheld in the field?

[Jon]

I'd seriously consider using at least a monopod, and/or flash with either.

[raylks]

How much mm tubes are required to let the 300mm f4 to reach 1:1 magnification ratio?

[Jon]

How much mm tubes are required to let the 300mm f4 to reach 1:1 magnification ratio?

About 225 mm, and a very good support for keeping the camera/tube/lens combination from flexing/breaking in the middle (or, more likely, at one of the expensive connections -the body mount or the rear lens mount. Never between two of the tubes!).

[raylks]

225mm tubes and the lens combined is a monster cannon! I dare not try it.

[DocFrankenstein]

Why do you say this Doc?

My specs say it focuses down to 4.9 feet.. (1.5 meters)
What I meant is that at 5 feet, the magnification won't be enough for butterflies.

Maybe 600 f/4 and RRS 40cm (custom made?) extension tube will do the trick? :lol:

[tim]

Having an IS lens for macro work could be a very good thing. Sounds to me like you should try out the 300mm IS, if it doesn't work for you then get the 180mm. Ideally go into a store that has both, with your camera, and try them out.

[ScottE]

If you want sharp photos of butterflies shot from 5 or 6 feet away you might as well resign yourself to using a tripod. I do that all the time. I don't understand why you say you can't.

My favourite lens I a Sigma 50-500 with a set of Kenko extension tubes.

Scott

[DocFrankenstein]

I see...

I guess I am not qualified to answer. I shot butterflies with sigma 70-200 and IMO you need 1:1 for butterflies. I don't think 300/4 will give you that... but I've never tried! Should've mentioned that.

[Jon]

I see...

I guess I am not qualified to answer. I shot butterflies with sigma 70-200 and IMO you need 1:1 for butterflies. I don't think 300/4 will give you that... but I've never tried! Should've mentioned that.

If you need 1:1 for butterflies, you must have very small butterflies in Toronto ;{)#

[rent]

hi jerry! i got both of these two lenses. i can tell you both are handheld-able but i personally don't recommend it.

if you will not be needing to shoot closer than 5 feet, then the 300/f4LIS will definately give you higher magnification at 5 feet (or any other distance > 5ft). it will also be better suited for handheld bacause of the IS.

closer than 5 feet, between the 180 and the 300 your choice is simply the 180 because the 300 won't focus down to <5ft.

i suggest using a tripod with ball head when you shoot butterflies, you'll be flexible chasing the movement while also getting some support from the tripod.

oh, btw, both lenses are great for light arm curls. :p

-alex

[CyberDyneSystems]

Most of the butterfly pics I've taken were with 100-400mm and 50-500mm withOUT any tubes,. and they can fill about 3/4 of the frame. With the 70-200mm and 25mm ring I can get close enough to have the butterfly larger than frame...

[raylks]

Certainly shooting butterfly with 180mm Macro is the ideal way to frame. I think the main discussion shall be besides 180mm Macro, what other possible combination can we make to faciliate us convenient shooting of butterfly.