Panning Frustration - Ready To Throw In The Towel

[Dredd123]

First of all, thanks for looking at this post.

I'm getting really frustrated with my lack of results when panning at motorsports events (I don't know where I'm going wrong). For example, I was at Silverstone last weekend for the FIA GT racing and I can count on one hand the number of photos which I consider "OK" out of a total of approximately 500. Then I go to Cadwell's website and find that all his photos are absolutely stunning:

http://www.racepicsuk.com/c1692834.html

I tend to use a shutter speed of 1/250, AI servo focus, single shot drive mode, plus the lowest ISO I can get away with. I also tried pre-focusing last weekend rather than letting the camera do the work but it didn't seem to make any difference. Please see the examples below. Please help!!

Thanks in advance,
Dave.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/Dredd1234/FIA%20GT%20Silverstone%202009/IMG_0136.jpg

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/Dredd1234/FIA%20GT%20Silverstone%202009/NO0U0007.jpg

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/Dredd1234/FIA%20GT%20Silverstone%202009/NO0U0009.jpg

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/Dredd1234/FIA%20GT%20Silverstone%202009/NO0U0021.jpg

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/Dredd1234/FIA%20GT%20Silverstone%202009/NO0U0045.jpg

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/Dredd1234/FIA%20GT%20Silverstone%202009/NO0U0047.jpg

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/Dredd1234/FIA%20GT%20Silverstone%202009/NO0U0103.jpg

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/Dredd1234/FIA%20GT%20Silverstone%202009/NO0U0104.jpg

[binlerne]

What lens/camera combo are you using? Do you have sample pics?

[sacral]

Go for faster shutter speed (1/500 or more), shoot in high-speed (6 fps?). My first (And only) motorsport event was a supercross test run. Begin panning as the subject approaches, and fire away while continuing to pan. Odds are, you'll have at least a few sharp keepers.

Of course, i haven't shot a motorsport event since. So take this advice with a grain of salt...

[Dredd123]

I will link to some examples on Photobucket later today.

I now have a 40D, 1DMKII, Sigma 120-300 f/2.8, and I've just bought a Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS USM.

Thanks,
Dave.

What lens/camera combo are you using? Do you have sample pics?

[Electrical]

I will link to some examples on Photobucket later today.

I now have a 40D, 1DMKII, Sigma 120-300 f/2.8, and I've just bought a Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS USM.

Thanks,
Dave.
sample pics?

[DStanic]

A 40D or 1Dmk2 with a 70-200L is definatly capable of the job (I'm not sure about the Sigma, don't know much about it). Instead of single shot try high speed continous and take several shots. Higher chance of getting 1 in 5 in focus until you get a little better at it.

Shooting at 1/500 is all fine and good but it might freeze the wheels on the cars, 1/250 seemed to be the perfect speed for me when I was shooting drag racing last weekend.

[chopperdave]

I found it took just doing it over and over and over before I could get any good at it. I use AI Focus and the fast shutter the 50D. But it really just is a matter of getting used to the movement.

[S.Ransom]

Dred123,

Panning does take a bit of practice and for many shots 250th/s is fine but on some of the fast corners you could use a faster shutter and still get motion blur on the wheels.
Next time try a faster shutter speed (400th/s) to start with and as you get more confident then start to lower it as the day goes on.

I also use a Canon 1D MK11 and use AI-servo, max burst rate and single focus point (normally centre) for my photo's and it performs very well.

Regard's

[sacral]

ugh i'm an idiot...i'm sorry. agreed that 1/250 is fine...actually, a little slower might be better to get a good motion blur from the background. :( Most of the shots that I took from my experience were between 1/100 and 1/160. *face palm*

[dustyporch]

Shoot in burst mode is also my recommendation... I find it helps a ton. My first shot of a series will not be good, but once you are holding the button down, its easier to hit a couple good ones.

[Wazza]

I'd go against what some have said, of spray and pray.

Try single shot mode, AI servo.

Select a focus point. Let's say cars are coming from the right, so choose a focus point slightly to the right (you want to compose the shot, so it's coming into the frame - more in front of the car)

It's an art of swinging your back around, feet still, and elbows/wrists locked tightly in place. With the selected focus point, compose your shot of the approaching car, and keep that red square on the same portion of car. Such as a front headlight or race number on side of car.. This will ensure the tracking point is on this point, in fluid motion. I'd definitely start with you 70-200 IS lens too.. IS helps a lot, though not completely necessary.

It's also easier to pan with a wider angle, so start off at 70mm.
And don't be afraid to use other focus points on your 1DII

Here's an example, of almost 70mm (67mm), at Luffields from behind the fence on the terraces, using the bottom right focus, 1/50th

http://www.warrenwilliams.co.nz/2008/JUL_3750.jpg

I'd recommend starting 1/320th, and working down to the best compromise of pan blur effect, vs. keeper rate.

[Jon Foster]

One of the biggest things I did to improve on my panning shots was to be sure I had enough follow through. Meaning, setup the shot (I like to pre-focus on a turn or familiar section of the field), find a target and track it to the pre-focused area, take the picture, then stop tracking the target.

When I don't pay attention I find myself taking a shot and stop tracking/panning at the same time. When I do that I get a bad shot, every time.

I also find that stopping down helps on shots that are not planned. More depth of field gives you a much better chance at a well focused car flying by at high speeds. If you are shooting at f/8 try f/16 etc...

Jon.

[binlerne]

And when using the 70-200 2.8 IS make sure you're in mode 2.

[PhotosGuy]

It does get easier!

Panning Question (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=589433)

[Moose408]

The best tip I ever got was to pre-wind my body. Meaning position your body so you are facing where you want to END the panning, then rotate your upper body to where you are going to START the panning. It makes it very easy to move from the starting point to the ending point smoothly and consistently.

The wide angle lens will also help. The most important thing is practice, practice, practice. I go to a busy street downtown and take 100s of practice shots.

[Cadwell]

First of all, thanks for looking at this post.

I'm getting really frustrated with my lack of results when panning at motorsports events (I don't know where I'm going wrong). For example, I was at Silverstone last weekend for the FIA GT racing and I can count on one hand the number of photos which I consider "OK" out of a total of approximately 500. Then I go to Cadwell's website and find that all his photos are absolutely stunning:

http://www.racepicsuk.com/c1692834.html

I tend to use a shutter speed of 1/250, AI servo focus, single shot drive mode, plus the lowest ISO I can get away with. I also tried pre-focusing last weekend rather than letting the camera do the work but it didn't seem to make any difference. Please see the examples below. Please help!!

Thanks in advance,
Dave.


Hi Dave,

Thanks for the comment on my photos; in truth it doesn't take much effort to make those GT cars look good and of course, I only put the decent ones on the web site. The rubbish no-one gets to see ;)

Lots of sage advice has been given in this thread and reading it only goes to show that there's more than one way of skinning a cat, or indeed taking a motorsport photo.

I'm not going to say it's right or wrong, but this is what works for me...

Camera in AI Servo AF, single focus point selected. Usually on the 1D Mark III it is the lower centre point. On the 1D Mark II it tends to be the two AF points immediately under the centre AF point. Focus point expansion "Off". Focus activation using the "*" button on the camera (unless I am using the 600mm in which case I use one of the AF Stop buttons on the lens).

Image stabilisation is ALWAYS off. It just gets in the way.

Camera is ALWAYS on single shot. There's no skill in "spray and pray" tactics for motorsport.

Shutter speed for head-on and three quarters shots starts at 1/320th for a sure thing and works down to @ 1/125th for a lower percentage but blurrier effort. I find myself at around 1/250th most of the time nowadays.

Set the ISO to whatever is needed to give an aperture of around f/8.

Full side-on pans (when I can be bothered because I'm not really a fan) tend to be at around 1/160th to 1/100th.

In all cases the trick is to pick a high contrast area of the car and track that with your active focus point for around a quarter of a second before hitting the shutter release. Remember to keep tracking and when the viewfinder returns from shutter blackout the AF point should be over the same area of the car. If it isn't you got it wrong. If you ever take a photo of a moving car with the camera held still it isn't going to work.

[Richard Brewer]

Lots of sound advice from everybody but like all things in life the more you practice the luckier you get.
Practice on other moving vehicles, cars, busses, trains; find a safe bit of dual carriageway stand 50 yards away from it and pretend the rep mobiles going by are F1 cars!
Good luck and have fun

[RDKirk]

One of the biggest things I did to improve on my panning shots was to be sure I had enough follow through. Meaning, setup the shot (I like to pre-focus on a turn or familiar section of the field), find a target and track it to the pre-focused area, take the picture, then stop tracking the target.

+1. I'll bet money your problem is follow-through. Just like golf or bowling, the follow-through has to be smooth and complete.

[Dennis Valet]

In my opinion motorsports photos are all about your shooting angle. 3/4 on so you can get the front and side of the car, the lower the better...elevation change in the background makes for cool shots, as does having other cars in the background.

I would say your pictures wouldn't be "bad" if they were cropped tighter, but the main problem is your perspective and shooting angle. Those just aren't flattering angles to shoot a car from. You are stuck in between side pan and 3/4 view.

[DC Fan]

Smoothness and choosing the correct shutter speed make a difference.

Somewhere, someone probably could create a formula that uses turn radius, car speed and distance from the target to calculate a good shutter speed for the panning motion blur. Until then, it's best to just guess at a good speed and play with that for a while.

Also, while it means additional wear on the shutter mechanism, the most vulnerable part of a DSLR, it doesn't hurt to use the continuous shooting mode when you're trying for a panning shot. Why? Because it can be best to concentrate on the panning motion rather than choosing a moment to trigger the shutter, an act which can upset a smooth arc. It's best in many cases to pick up the target, push the shutter and let the camera fire frames as you track the target, then later review the images to find where your technique works.

At least that technique seemed to have worked earlier this evening with winged sprint cars in Anderson, Indiana.

http://www.kevinlillard.com/online/2009-05-20a-1121.jpg
Camera Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
Focal Length: 110.0mm
Exposure Time: 0.0080 s (1/125)
Aperture: f/18.0
ISO equiv: 200
White Balance: Auto
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)


http://www.kevinlillard.com/online/2009-05-20a-1162.jpg
Camera Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
Focal Length: 120.0mm
CCD Width: 4.58mm
Exposure Time: 0.0080 s (1/125)
Aperture: f/18.0
ISO equiv: 200
White Balance: Auto
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)

[spw]

Great photo's and sound advice.

What's the collective wisdom regarding monopods? Do they help with increased stability when panning or hinder due to more restrictive movement?

Steve

[Mark1]

That depends on your style of panning. For some it helps a lot others seem to get twisted up in the pod. Borrow one ant try it. Or just extend the legs of a tripod and keep them shut to make a mono pod. You will know right away if it is comfortable or not.

For Dredd123.... Start all over rather than "throw in the towl". I would suggest finding a place on the track where the cars are going square to your position. Rather than towards you, like in the ones you posted. You may be tracking the car fine, but it is still trying to leave the plane of focus at 150MPH. With the car running square to you you only have the tracking to worry about. Than work your way into the others

[old git]

Well after reading this very interesting thread, I decided i'd have a go, due to the fisheye being in for repair for 3 weeks..

Here's my first attempts, lens choice wasn't the best but used what i had..

1
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii90/ColinBrister/Specials/canon%20net%202/MX003.jpg

2
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii90/ColinBrister/Specials/canon%20net%202/MX101.jpg

3
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii90/ColinBrister/Specials/canon%20net%202/MX013.jpg

4
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii90/ColinBrister/Specials/canon%20net%202/MX014.jpg

5
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii90/ColinBrister/Specials/canon%20net%202/MX012.jpg

[DC Fan]

What's the collective wisdom regarding monopods? Do they help with increased stability when panning or hinder due to more restrictive movement?

Steve

The pivot point for a monopod is the tripod mount. The best pivot point for panning is your body, either the waist, neck, shoulders or your lead foot. Using a monopod means you have to "chase" the viewfinder when you follow a target.

[DStanic]

Well after reading this very interesting thread, I decided i'd have a go, due to the fisheye being in for repair for 3 weeks..

Here's my first attempts, lens choice wasn't the best but used what i had..



Not perfect but not bad either! I love the blur!!

[neil_r]

Go for faster shutter speed (1/500 or more), shoot in high-speed (6 fps?). My first (And only) motorsport event was a supercross test run. Begin panning as the subject approaches, and fire away while continuing to pan. Odds are, you'll have at least a few sharp keepers.

Of course, i haven't shot a motorsport event since. So take this advice with a grain of salt...

I disagree with this. I keep my shutter speed below 1/200s usually 1/125s or below and I do not use burst mode normally exposing only one and occasionally two frames per pass. The secret is practice and become almost metronomic. I turn IS off, pick the vehicle up well before the point at which I want to expose the frame and continue following through with the vehicle after I have clicked the shutter.

100 - 400 @ 1/125s

http://www.ambrosiabbs.com/gallery/photo/medium/CSCC_Mallory_Park_May_2009_NHR8288.jpg

300mm @ 1/60s

http://www.ambrosiabbs.com/gallery/photo/medium/Donington_March_2009_NHR4097.jpg

[Lowner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spw http://photography-on-the.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7975367#post7975367)
What's the collective wisdom regarding monopods? Do they help with increased stability when panning or hinder due to more restrictive movement?

Steve

The pivot point for a monopod is the tripod mount. The best pivot point for panning is your body, either the waist, neck, shoulders or your lead foot. Using a monopod means you have to "chase" the viewfinder when you follow a target.

I tend to pan using my body as the above says, but have no trouble using a monopod while doing so. All that happens is the monopod/camera/lens combination swings en-masse through a reasonably sized arc around my body as I move my waist (everything else is fairly static). It means that the camera is only level at one place on that arc, but that's worked out before the shot to be level when it's reacherd the right spot.

It may sound odd, but it seems to work for me. I certainly would not be comfortable moving my whole body just to keep my eye to the viewfinder if panning by pivoting around the monopd leg. Does anyone do it this way? If so, how on earth do you stay balanced?

[gordonfraser]

I did my first ever motorsports shoot last weekend. I used a Canon 450D, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 II and I also tried both monopod and handheld shooting. Out of the hand held stuff, a lot of it was either blurred or partially out of focus. I admit, my hand held technique probably left a lot to be desired, and also the first use of a heavy lens made it quite difficult to get shake free results.

However there were some keepers. The monopod on the other hand was a different story. It removed the shake vertically and that for me is so much better. With hand held you can weave your camera in all directions, really making it quite difficult to get sharp results. Removing the shake from just 1 axis really does simplify things a lot.

I was getting pin sharp results @ 200mm and my keeper rate went from around 1 out of 5 hand held to 4 out of 5 with monopod.

Yes you look like a dork sweeping your body/monopod/lens combo but I dont care. Its the results that matter.

But at the end of the day, it's personal preference. I'm sure the Canon L lenses are lighter, so perhaps enduring 7 hours of hand held shooting is ok. With my Sigma, it's heavy, but I think this helps reduce camera shake. It's like attaching a massive weight to your lens: it may be heavy but it's not shaking with every breath of wind or hand movement.

The Sig doesnt have IS.


Examples of monopod/sigma 70-200mm motorsport (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=700234)

HTH

Gordon

[Ingsy]

It's just practice. I've done 3 motorsports shoots over the last 12 months and I've already noticed an improvement over just those.

[Zilly]

Put a fairly lenghty post up on my blog about the art of panning
might be worth checking it out

The Dark Art of panning (http://blog.modernpics.co.uk/2008/11/16/the-art-of-the-pan/)