When should we NOT give advice?

[Big_B]

This site is a mine of useful information and great people always willing to help. However, I’ve started to become concerned about some of the advice that we give on this site. It seems that every week someone will pop up and ask what the law states about taking photos in place x y and z. Do they need a model release? Can they sell the pictures for a profit?



To give you one example of such discussions, consider: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=67891&highlight=public+legal (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=67891&highlight=public+legal)



The point of this post is to ask whether we should be providing such legal advice. Few, if any of us are lawyers, and laws vary greatly from state to state and country to country. Sure you can take photos of bridges in America, but what is the law in Saudi Arabia? This makes it very hard to give accurate advice in the context of this discussion board.



In addition, as the above thread shows, there is also the risk that the questioner may not include vital details, which may impact on appropriate advice.



What if we get it wrong and someone gets in trouble with the law?



One outcome is that the board might be held liable. Now we could argue all day about the extent of the board’s liability, but that is not my intention with this thread.

For me, the more important issue is the impact on the individual who is in trouble with the law.



Therefore, how do we deal with this possibility? My opinion is that we could agree a position on a small number of frequently raised issues and keep these on display in a sticky. Questions outside this remit would be directed to appropriate websites/lawyers.



Thoughts?

[IndyJeff]

Big B while I agree, somewhat, with what your saying, I almost always advise to "contact a local attorney" in any post involving legalities.

Now anyone who would take the legal advice of some nut on a message board as gospel without consulting an attorney in his local jurisdiction,, well they deserve what they get.


EDIT:

I have had several emails as well as PM's asking me about a legality of some sorts. I always begin each reply as follows.........

While I am not an attorney, my understanding of law here in the states is that blah, blah, blah. To be on the safe side consult an attorney in your town to see what the law exactly is. I am not a lawyer but, I do have a pretty good working knowledge of what the law is in regards to your situation but, as I said get with an attorney. That's their business.

[RockSlut]

For the most part, the users get what they pay for. I was discussing this very issue at work today (while I am not a lawyer, I am the only non-lawyer in my team at work, which is essentially a taxation department). The reality is that no [Australian] court is going to accept "..but some guy called bobo69 on an internet message board told me that I would be fine...". I would expect that this would be true of most jurisdictions. As they say, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

To cover off on the possibility of some naive user taking the information from the potn as gospel then attempting to take action against the users involved (or Pekka himself) if and when they get into trouble, I would suggest that some addition be made to the terms and conditions of use and probably a sticky somewhere about the dangers/stupidity of relying on legal advice from a public forum.

The reality is that this is an excellent place to get advice on equipment and technical aspectsof photography however it is not a legal advice forum and does not [to my knowledge] make any representations to be.

[allanc]

Actually, this question is much more complicated now since 9/11. A friend of mine sent me a long story about a photo he wanted to take. He is an avid photographer and a train engineer. He is also a history buff. He ran across a photo from the late 1800s of a train on the tracks in Baltimore. He went out and found the same spot and wanted to reproduce the picture with a modern train (a hundred plus year then and now shot). The short version of the story is this.

He went to the spot and set up his camera and tripod. He was on railroad property (the railroad that he is an engineer with). He had his company radio so he would know the status of the scheduled train that he wanted to photograph and he had his photo railroad ID indicating he was an engineer. No sooner had he gotten set up, a policeman came by and told him he had to leave and could not take the photo. My friend showed him his ID and told him he could indeed be on the property and take the photo. He even showed the policeman a copy of the old photo. The policeman would not accept this and left. He brought back another policeman. After a long discussion about whether he could or could not be there and take a picture, the police decided that he could indeed take the picture but they had to record his name, address, and company ID number.

So, in conclusion, be careful what you shoot lest you accused of being a terrorist.

[CyberDyneSystems]

The fact is we give bad advice in all the forums on all the subjects every day.. ;)

Sure,. usually a thread will receive very good advice.. at least the overwhelming majority.. but either way.. the poster has to sift through the conflicting replys to get the best answer to there question.

It is up to the person posting the queston to decide how important the subject is to them,. and thus how much stock they put into the answers found on this,. or any forum.

It's just the nature of the beast. It's forum advice in general.. not just legal advice on POTN..

The best advice we ever give is the advice that gets the member started in the right direction to find the right answer for themselves. (read IndyJeffs reply above)

...this is as true for "what lens?" as it is for "can I point my bazooka shaped telephoto at the Presidential convoy?"

[PhotosGuy]

RE: advice in general
Here in the States, it's just been "Tax time". A recent TV program & newspaper stated that if you call the IRS "Help line" for advice, it's been wrong a large per-cent of the time. But, if you're audited, you can't use that as a reason for your failure to comply & will be assessed penalties!
Your tax dollars at work!
As was said above, "Now anyone who would take the legal advice of some nut on a message board as gospel without consulting an attorney in his local jurisdiction,, well they deserve what they get."
Too true! And even then you may still get screwed.
I hope that people who ask for advice are just trying to get a feel for what the problems might be, so that they can discuss the subject intelligently with a licensed professional, who'd better have Errors & Omissions insurance to cover HIS butt!

[reidr]

IMHO, asking for advice is not asking for legal assistance. As Indyjeff pointed out always consult an attorney for specific legal questions. I think that most of the questions posted here have been the "in general" type of question. However, there have been some questions to the point, and experienced photographers can usually give good advise if the question is specific, with no details left out of the equation. As experience has shown me in the past, most people leave out the small details that get that person into trouble. If I had a specific legal question that I thought might in the least cost me any amount of money, I would be contacting my attorney for the answer. I would think that most people should do this as well. Sometimes with the best of intentions, and with all the "t's" crossed, and all the "i's" dotted, we can still have those situations where no matter what you do, someone will try and come after you for whatever the reason.
Just ask Bloo Dog...
That's my $.02 worth...so I'll be quiet now....

P.S. This is still the best forum that I have found for Q and A......

[mjordan]

CDS, MY advice is always good advice. People just use it wrong.

:D

Mike