Shooting airplanes air to air

[copter105]

Looking for opinions on the 100-400 IS w/20D for shooting airplanes from another airplane. The obvious problem is the fact that in order to get a tight shot it will more than likely be shot all the way at 400mm, and since I have no control over the movements of an airplane the camera will more-than-likely be fairly unsteady. I am a pilot and I fly everyday out of Las Vegas over the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, Monument Valley etc area and (after a year) I will never have the opprtunity again to shoot from such an interesting perspective. 99% of my Photos will be during the day and I have never used IS but I was wondering if anybody has any opinions on what I am doing. Thanks for any comments.
Copter

[Cadwell]

Well this is pure speculation 'cos I've never tried anything like that... but I would think the 100-400L might be a bit unwieldy to be waving about in a plane. It's kinda long when zoomed out to 400mm.

[cactusclay]

Who is going to be flying while you are taking pictures? Are you doing both?

[iwatkins]

That is what your knees are for. :)

[lmelendez]

Who is going to be flying while you are taking pictures? Are you doing both?

Tried that once... it is kinda dangerous. Almost put the plane on a spin while trying to get the proper angle while doing a coordinated turn...

Better to have another pilot to hold the plane :)

Leo.

[Kudos2Fly]

I agree not the smartest way to fly..

Kim

[copter105]

There are two of us pilots up front. I will just make the other guy fly while I do some composing. I had a B-17 and a B-25 right beside me the other day WITH the Vegas strip in the background. I just about cried because I didn't have a camera with lens with me :cry: . The one really nice thing about the aircraft I fly is that I can put the lense through an opening in the windows and I don't have to shoot right through the plexiglass. I will never have these chances again.

Copter

[ssim]

I used to do alot of that kind of photography. It is not easy but a lot of fun. I was doing it on a commercial basis so I had full control of the placement of the chase plane and the target plane. Depending on the speed of the target aircraft I have chased in everything from a 172 to a Navaho. We always took the door on the chase plane and I would wear a body harness fastened to the frame on the aircraft. Trying to put your lens through a opening in the chase plane is going to require exacting placement of the target aircraft.

I really think that the 100-400 is too much lens in the air, even with IS. When I was doing this I always shot with a Pentax 6X7 medium format camera with a 90mm lens. Given that I had full control over the direction and placement of both aircraft I could always make sure that they were where I wanted them. I always used the same pilot for my chase plane and we hand developed a series hand and arm signals on how I wanted him to move. With a DSLR I would think that a 70-200 would be optimal on this. It's focus is faster, it is lighter than the 100-400 and you won't find as much camera shake. It really depends on how good the pilots are and how close to each other they want to get. I had a pilot in the target aircraft want a shot of him flying so we got pretty close, wings were actuall overlapping. Now that is a rush. My wife wasn't so keen on this but it is probably the most fun I have ever had doing photography.

My best suggestion is to make sure the sun is at your back and keep your shutter speed up to at least 1/1000.

Here is a sample of one I did many a years ago. Shot with a Pentax 6X7 and I've recently started to scan my old negatives. I would love to have the opportunity to do this again.

http://www.pbase.com/ssim/image/23658283.jpg

[robertwgross]

I think that camera and that lens would work fine. The I.S. might be working good for you. Still, I would stick the lens front through an opening in the windscreen and then pad it against vibration coming through the aircraft.

I think we are all assuming that the cockpit is not pressurized.

---Bob Gross---

[lmelendez]

SSim,
That is a great shot!!!

Leo.

[copter105]

Hey guys, unfortunately I do not have any control over the target airplanes I will be photographing. Since I am a pilot in my airplane I will indeed have control over where my airplane is, but in order to keep within the law, I cannot crowd other airplanes in the sky. And SSIM, I will most certainly not be able to overlap my wings with another airplanes. But there are many times where I am well within a great range to take an awsome photograph of an airplane. We fly in a VFR (Visual Flight Rules) environment for a big tour operator and we fly over Nellis Air Force Base and in and out of one of this country's busiest airports. I fly a Twin Otter which is one model number from SSIM's Dash 7 aircraft in the picture above. It is the Dash 6. My window can be rolled down just like a car door window and yes the aircraft is not pressurized. We do not fly any faster than 130 knots (unless we are down hill of course). So all of these factors sort of add up to why I want to research what the best lens for this would be. I do have a question for SSIM though: were you always that close to other airplanes when you took photos?
Copter

[Jon]

I'd have to agree that the 100-400 may be too much reach. Consider the 70-200 f/2.8 IS, or maybe the 70-200 f/4. My sense is that unless the air is really clear, you're going to have a lot of haze problems which the longer lens will exacerbate. I think that most of the name aviation photographers are able to use fairly short lenses.