Type of camera/system for these pictures, help please!

[dragonboi]

Hello all,

I'm looking to buy a top of the line camera to soley take pictures of machines. So basically a camera that can let me take the best pictures of these machines but i don't need it to take pictures of anything else. The machines range in size from 3x2x2 feet to 5x4x6 feet (l x w x h). The machines are made of mostly plastic, some glass, some metal.

I'm also wondering what type of set up i should have for this? what kind of umbrellas etc.

here's what one of the machines look like.

http://www.csbio.com/images/open.jpg

Thanks for the opinions and help, it's greatly appreciated!! :)

[blue_max]

You don't need a top of the line camera for what you wish to take pictures of (product shots). Those cameras excel at very particular things and this is not one of them.

Any regular digital camera would be able to produce very acceptable pictures of these.

It is a misconception that a very expensive camera will make a great picture.

If you have a particular effect in mind or example of the sort of shot you aspire to, then please post it. Chances are that it is the photographer's art that made the shot and not the camera.

Graham

[prime80]

Is this for web output, or print output? If print, what size prints are you intending to produce?

[CyberDyneSystems]

Thats a fancy water cooling system ;) :mrgreen:

Prime and BlueMax both have good points,.

If web output is your intended use,. then you may want to look at a good P&S camera like the "G" series? Actually given the file sizes these days a "G" can make publishable prints as well ...

But if Print is the primary out put,. then perhaps it warrants a step up to the 350D with a wide zoom lens like the 17-40mm f/4L

[dragonboi]

Is this for web output, or print output? If print, what size prints are you intending to produce?

hello all. thanks for the speedy replies. I want to use this for web and print output. for print, i want to make flyers with these pictures (8x11.5 normal size paper flyers), and also posters (2x4 feet size posters). so some of the pictures will probably have to be around 10x10 inches each on the posters.

in terms of what blue_max said, do you think maybe umbrellas to get the lighting right would be a good purchase? any suggestions on these type of accessories that i need? as you can see from the picture below, you can see the glare on the computer from the overhead lights. we probably later on want to put it in front of a solid color background and take pictures with the right lighting. what do you guys suggest for this?

[J Rabin]

Dragon.
Workplace photography of machines requires side-front lighting that is diffused to become larger than the object(s) being photographed. Umbrellas may be part of it, but BIG home made softboxes are better for reducing specular hot spots (over exposed reflections). Also, you need lighting behind the object to eliminate shadows. If you have continuous lighting source, then any decent camera with a wide angle lens will do. But, if you will use some type of flash set up to trigger slaves, then you REALLY need a good camera and flash to trigger the slave lighting. The technology requirement is more in the flash than the camera.
Since I like showing my screw-ups and mistakes on this forum, here is a job I did where I DID NOT HAVE any decent lighting other than hot-shoe flash, and you can see all the mistakes, shadows, bad lighting. Such is life. You work with what you got at the time.

http://aesop.rutgers.edu/~rabin/source/cleaning_used_bottles.htm

These we ended up converting to B&W because they were bad, and they were just published in March 2005 BioCycle Journal.
Have fun. Jack

[J Rabin]

Dragon. One more item. For your machines, set up a big white sheet behind the objects so you can separate them clearly from the background in PhotoShop (ie, do knockouts). There are lots of books on this subject. Jack

[robertwgross]

Based on the questions and answers here, I would suggest that what is needed most is a professional photographer.

---Bob Gross---

[DocFrankenstein]

You might also consider a multi-flash camera, if you need to show the details in the machines. It allows you to separate the different layers clearly. I can't find the link... maybe someone can post it.

[Longwatcher]

And don't forget to check out the Tilt/Shift lenses, they may do some good work in this case if you are working in tight spaces. especially the TS-E 24mm.

Just a thought, I could be wrong.

[blue_max]

That gives us more of an idea of what your requirements are.

I don't think we can give you a one paragraph training programme sadly or I would take it myself! Just buying the tools will not make you a master carpenter and you should not expect to become a photographer overnight. I learnt a lot by watching professionals at work. Maybe by hiring a pro for a day or two, you will glean enough experience to tackle it yourself.

There is absolutely no link between equipment and ability and jumping in at the deep end may put you off for life.

I got very good results with a G5 and the person I sold it to was slightly disappointed as they couldn't get a focussed shot. You can buy all the high end kit and still find your ability is way behind. Start modestly and learn all you can. You can certainly get there, but a 'top of the range' camera is the least of your worries.

Good luck

Graham

[rdenney]

Based on the questions and answers here, I would suggest that what is needed most is a professional photographer.

---Bob Gross---

My thoughts exactly.

I'm thinking that for large posters, one needs far more quality of image than most people realize. Image quality is conspicuous only by its absence. Product posters and conference displays are often looked at from close distances and the image quality must be superior. That means large format. Most poster and conference-display-sized photographs are made by profesional photographers using 4x5" view cameras. They may get away with a 6x7cm medium-format camera, but nothing smaller will really do. The demands for poster-size images are vastly greater than for web display or even magazine ads (until you get to full spreads, where most photographer would be back to their view cameras).

And I'm also thinking that it ain't the camera, but the lighting and the skill in using it. Digicams often don't even have an external flash synch, so you are into more expensive stuff right off the bat if you want to use studio lighting. The alternative is to use hot lights, which require more expensive modifiers to take the heat of continuous illumination. And it takes a LOT of light. To get everything in focus, you often must use very small apertures, and that means more light is needed.

Lighting should be as diffuse as possible, which means the lighted surface that provides illumination should be as large as possible. I can see in the example that a very large softbox was used, behind and to the right of the camera, for front lighting. That I can see its reflection so obviously in the computer monitor is, to me, distracting and a sign of poor technique.

It's not rocket science and I think most anyone could achieve competency. But it costs a lot to buy the equipment needed to do it well, and it takes a lot of learning and practice to learn how to use it effectively. Professional photographers provide both on a rental basis, and unless you do it every day it's probably cheaper to rent than to buy.

Now, if you just want to photograph equipment to document factory acceptance tests or what was delivered, that's another matter. For advertising, though, any lapse of production values in the photographs will be obvious, and well reflect on the product.

Rick "whose $1500 10D plus $225 50mm macro lens (insert current version here) can make commercially acceptable product photos only up to 8x12, even with the $1000 worth of preowned studio lighting" Denney

[dragonboi]

Thanks for all the replies.
From the answers that I should get a professional photographer, is this because mostly skill or because I would need too much equipment to take these actual pictures?

Also, as before I specified that I wanted to take pictures of machines that dimensioned up to 5x4x6 feet (l x w x h), but if I mostly just wanted to focus on machines that are 3x2x2 feet, what time of lighting do you guys think I need specifically (as in what i should actually go out and get).

In terms of camera, I read the mention of getting any good camera with a wide angle lens, which cameras meet this? I'm hoping to get something with high megapixels so it would really be clear for poster size pictures.

I appreciate all the help!

[PaulB]

I'm really with Bob and Rick on this - what you can get is the equipment, with advice from posters here which will be (mostly) helpful and on the right track.
What you don't have is the experience to use that equipment to its' full potential. That may/should come in time as you get used to the equipment but in the meantime you WILL make lots of mistakes and if your advertising flyers and posters are aimed at selling these machines then you could be doing yourself a massive disservice and lose customers whilst you learn.
By all means buy a good DSLR and lenses/lighting etc. but in the early days seriously think about getting the product shots done professionally - just think how much you will learn by watching the photographer set things up and then by trying to emulate the shots - and eventually bettering them?

[Phil V]

Thanks for all the replies.
From the answers that I should get a professional photographer, is this because mostly skill or because I would need too much equipment to take these actual pictures?
Because these kinds of photographs require a lot of skill AND a lot of expensive equipment. my suggested list:
DSLR 350d would do 1dsII would be better - for large posters
50mm compact macro lens - (flat field of view) any quality lens would do, maybe the 17-40L?
2 studio lights
2 stands (at least)
1 umbrella / reflector
1 soft box
various other reflectors / french flags
flash meter
wein safe sync to protect camera circuit (depends on camera / flash combination- this is complicated)
background support system
background materials
A book about basic photography
a book about studio lighting
about 6 months practice (longer if you're not technically minded - shorter if you're a genious)

If you really want to do this because you have an interest in photography, good luck and come back with more questions as you get stuck.:)

However if you are just thinking you can do it to save some money, well good luck you'll need it. As someone else said; a hammer and a bunch of chisels and a piece of rock isn't going to turn you into Michaelangelo.:confused:

Now, how much could you get a pro photographer for?

[rdenney]

Thanks for all the replies.
From the answers that I should get a professional photographer, is this because mostly skill or because I would need too much equipment to take these actual pictures?

Yes.

To make large photos for conference backdrops, where the photos start at 30x40" and go up to 8x12 feet:

4x5 view camera
210mm lens (superior quality--like a Schneider Symmar)
lens board
compendium shade
loupe
4x5 ready-load film holder
4x5 transparency film, or
digital scanning back, which will required a tethered computer
large (and I mean LARGE) tripod
Studio lights (four lights preferable)
two 36" square soft boxes
two 48" shoot-through umbrellas
two snoots
two barn doors
two large reflectors
two diffusers
two backdrops, one white and one blue or bright green (for subsequent Photoshop dropouts), both of which can roll out underneath the subject
light stands
a good flash meter

Lessee, without the digital back, you could buy medium-quality and used stuff and only spend around $6000. Don't think you can make good pictures with it from the start, though. People spend years learning to use this stuff at a high level. If you add a digital back, you're looking at 10 or 20 grand additional, and then it will only work when the subject does not move.

If you want pictures for brochures, leave-behinds, and web display, with no picture being larger than 8x12, then it's a lot easier:

Canon 20D
Canon 50mm Compact Macro lens
everything from the above list starting with tripod and going down.

With judicious buying of used stuff, you could probably get it done for $3000 or a little more.

But DO NOT underestimate what it takes to do lighting well. I own a complete studio setup, large and medium format cameras galore, and have over 30 years of experience including not a little bit of commercial work, and I would think of myself as a novice on product and equipment photography. Equipment has cavities that have to be filled with light, shiny metals that have to be deshined and controlled to avoid blowing out highlights, logos and labels that are expected to be as readable as in real life when viewed through a magnifying glass, and even reflective surfaces that will tell the world what you look like if you aren't careful. Don't underestimate it. It's much more difficult than taking pics of the kiddies at Wally World, but then I find that hard to do well, too.

Try buying just the camera and then enroll in a commercial photography class. Like I said before, it's not rocket science and anyone sufficiently motivated can do it. But how much is your learning time worth?

Rick "who thinks it takes both equipment AND expertise" Denney