Toying with building a new pc... check my build

[slappy sam]

Going to be used for almost everything: mostly internet browsing/etc, also a lot of photoshop and batch processing, and definitely some games. And might be using some CAD as well.

Here is the list... let me know what you think of my choices (this is first build)

ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $280 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131365)

Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail $280 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202)

OCZ Vertex Series (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227394)OCZSSD2-1VTX60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) - Retail $180 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227394)

NZXT Alpha Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case with Open Window - Retail $30 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146041)

SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q - OEM $27 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151173)

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ... - Retail $100 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006)

OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK - Retail $80 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227365)

EVGA 896-P3-1260-TR GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $180 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130464)

I also already have this drive:
Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM $90 (but already bought) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136317)

Total: $1157. I can get xp for free from my old computer, or could just get vista for $15, or will likely just wait for windows 7 and buy it for $15 from my campus computer store.

Here are my few thoughts on the rig:
-core i7 vs. core 2 quad. discuss.
-Is the SSD worth it? Or should I go with a velociraptor, or just use the 1tb drive only? I'd prefer getting a fassst scratch disk I think, and the SSD really isn't that pricey ($180 for 60gb SSD isn't bad)
-Graphics card, seems pretty diesel, any need to go up to a 285 or something? I don't think so...
-My case is really cheap but has good reviews, fairly good fan setup, and I really like the look of it. Helps keep my system on budget, so unless there are any big problems with it I'd love to keep that case.
-Should I go for 12gb ram? Was thinking I'd keep 6gb for a year or two, until 4gb sticks drop a lot, and then I'd up to (maybe) 24gb, if I thought it was necessary. Or I could just add 3 2gb sticks to up to 12, which would probably be adequate.
-All mobos seem similar in price if I'm using an i7, I liked this one for its 24gb ram max and it seems like a standard
-Since all mobos, etc. are more expensive when I'm using core i7, should I be thinking of getting the 2.9x processor? EDIT: lol, the 2.96 processor is like $570, no way I'm doing that. Anyway, should I be thinking about core duo instead of i7? Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail - $270

*Another question: I've got a dell 8400 with a p4 @ 3.0ghz/2gb crucial (err, 633 maybe?) ram, radeon x300 gfx card, etc. Could I even really sell this? It's still a great computer for anyone who doesn't need a high performance rig... I've been doing all my work on it and it still does the job.

[In2Photos]

Looks pretty decent.

SSD drives are still not quite worth it to me. You don't seem to get as much bang for your buck as with the larger disk drives. You could spend half the $180 and get a WD Black 640Gb and get similar, yet proven performance.

If you go with XP now you limit yourself to 4GB of RAM on a 32 bit OS. So go with a 64 bit OS now, either Vista or Win 7 RC1. Otherwise you are paying for ~3GB of unusable RAM (6GB plus the ~1GB on the Video Card).

I think i7 is the way to go. It will allow you more upgradablity down the road than a Core2Quad (this is of course assuming that LGA1366 sticks around for a while). You could swap chips to something newer and faster.

If you might do some CAD work you need to make sure that the video card is on the approved list.

Cases are personal so I won't comment on it other than to say it does get decent reviews.

You might want an aftermarket CPU cooler. I picked one up even though I don't need it. For $40 my CPU runs cooler than with the stock heat sink. The Intel heast sink would be fine for most use though.

I doubt you could sell your current machine for much. Use it as a file server or backup machine or something or donate it to someone that needs a PC.

[slappy sam]

Looks pretty decent.

SSD drives are still not quite worth it to me. You don't seem to get as much bang for your buck as with the larger disk drives. You could spend half the $180 and get a WD Black 640Gb and get similar, yet proven performance.
Hm, okay. I have a wd 1tb green drive already (just bought), so the thing is.... I"ve got the space taken care of, just need another drive thats gonna be fast for windows. Or should I just use the 1tb green drive only?
If you go with XP now you limit yourself to 4GB of RAM on a 32 bit OS. So go with a 64 bit OS now, either Vista or Win 7 RC1. Otherwise you are paying for ~3GB of unusable RAM (6GB plus the ~1GB on the Video Card).
Well, if I load 32bit xp and then when windows 7 comes out, can I load 64bit windows 7? That was my plan, or I could just use the current release of 7 until they release the final candidate.
I think i7 is the way to go. It will allow you more upgradablity down the road than a Core2Quad (this is of course assuming that LGA1366 sticks around for a while). You could swap chips to something newer and faster.
Yeah looking at things more, I am seeing that i7 is the way to go
If you might do some CAD work you need to make sure that the video card is on the approved list.
Hm, okay. I should check this out... CAD work isn't a huge priority for me, but it would be nice to have as an option
Cases are personal so I won't comment on it other than to say it does get decent reviews.
Yeah... looks good to me :P
You might want an aftermarket CPU cooler. I picked one up even though I don't need it. For $40 my CPU runs cooler than with the stock heat sink. The Intel heast sink would be fine for most use though.
What do you mean by an aftermarket cpu cooler? An aftermarket heatsink? Or thermal paste... haven't really looked at all the cooling stuff. If I'm not OCing then the intel should be fine, right? I'm definitely open to looking at aftermarket cooling...
I doubt you could sell your current machine for much. Use it as a file server or backup machine or something or donate it to someone that needs a PC.
Damn, lol.
Commented ^^ Thanks for the prompt response.

[Pete]

I second the comment on the SSD. I use one for work (not as a primary drive though). At first, the performance is astonishing, but over time, the performance dips due to the way that the controller writes to the disk (reads and access times are far quicker than normal drives, but over time, write speeds diminish, so not really applicable for use as a scratch disk).

Over time, the SSD drive controllers will improve, but they're not at that stage yet.

You're better off with proven spinning plates.

[In2Photos]

You can either partition your 1TB drive and use it for the OS drive or simply buy another drive. I would just spend the $75 on the 640 WD Black and use that for my OS drive. Still saves you the money over the SSD and leaves you plenty of space for whatever. I had trouble with the notion of installing a 640GB drive just for the OS so I partitioned it to hold my OS (C drive), my non-photo files (D drive) and my photos (E drive). You might find that something similar works for you.

If you go with XP now you should be able to upgrade later to Win7 but I think going to 64 bit will require a fresh install and not an "upgrade". You can still use the serial numbers, but I don't think you can go from 32 bit to 64 bit wihtout a complete fresh install.

If not OCing the stock heatsink should be fine. I bought the Xigmatek Dark Knight just for the extra cooling power just in case. Not needed though in your case.

[ChasP505]

I don't know about that case... It's a very conventional ATX design and the latest generation cases are tending to have bigger air intake through the front, bottom mounted PSU's and at least one 140mm fan. I'm thinking this case would have to have several fans to get strong air flow and would be quite noisy. Also, will the positioning of the front USB/Firewire etc. inputs be convenient to you if the computer sits on the floor?

Take a look at this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042) for a few bucks more.

[slappy sam]

@In2:
Interesting about the HD. I just dont need 1.64tb, so it seems like a waste, I'll figure something out though. I was going to do a fresh install of windows 7 regardless of whether or not I can "upgrade". It will be a totally new install/wipe of HD. I am contemplating overclocking, or at least reading up on it and seeing what I could do, so I will be looking into aftermarket coolers.

@Chas
Okay, I do realize that the new gen ones have a larger air intake through the front. I mainly picked this case because I really liked the design, and as an added bonus it was inexpensive. I'll look into that case and others.

[In2Photos]

@In2:
Interesting about the HD. I just dont need 1.64tb, so it seems like a waste, I'll figure something out though. I was going to do a fresh install of windows 7 regardless of whether or not I can "upgrade". It will be a totally new install/wipe of HD. I am contemplating overclocking, or at least reading up on it and seeing what I could do, so I will be looking into aftermarket coolers.

I know, it is hard to stomach paying for space that you don't need. But when you look at it in terms of performance instead of "wasted space" it makes more sense. You won't save much by going with a smaller drive and you will take a performance hit anyway. Besides, you might be surprised how much space you eat up as new cameras get released. What if you pick up a 5DMKII? Those RAW files are huge!

@Chas
Okay, I do realize that the new gen ones have a larger air intake through the front. I mainly picked this case because I really liked the design, and as an added bonus it was inexpensive. I'll look into that case and others.
Check out Cooler Master. I am very happy with my RC590.

[Faolan]

I would also look into the Phenom II processors particularly the 955 it's on par with the 920 and is cheaper as well as the sub-systems such as the mobo. Downside you're restricted to 16Gb for a mobo, which isn't really an issue as 4Gb DIMMS are as rare as hens teeth.

The Phenom II generally is definitely on par/better than the Core series. So look into these areas.

[tim]

My reading says Core i7 is quite a way ahead of AMD right now, but AMD are better value and decent performance. I would go Core i7 over Core2 if you can afford it, there's a better upgrade path - though that's never guaranteed. Hopefully they'll eventually release an 8 core hyperthreaded chip, giving 16 virtual cores, that will drop right into current motherboards.

SSD - to me they're not quite there yet, i'd go with standard drives. My setup is 400GB drive as OS, 1TB drive as general data, personal photos, and media, 1TB drive as commercial images, and an older 200GB drive as swap and scratch. For someone not doing high volume imaging i'd probably suggest one drive as OS and swap and one for data. Since swap is used when programs are already loaded and working hard the disk will be otherwise loaded. Be aware the WD Green drives are 5400rpm, so they're a bit slower than their other drives. I use Seagate Barracuda, even my .11 drives are fine but i'd try for .12 drives just in case.

You need a 64 bit OS to take advantage of your RAM. Get Vista64 or download Windows7 RC, which is free. If you don't you'll only be able to address 3GB of RAM.

Video cards with so much memory seem like overkill unless you play a lot of games, to me.

[YP5 Toronto]

Everything else you have going written is good. Go with the i7 as a long term investment.

However, contrary to what everyone is saying about SSD, there is plenty of value in SSD right now.

I would probably recommend you go with TWO 30GB SSD Vertex and setup in RAID. I currently have the same MB and CPU.
I use my 3 x 30 GB SSD raid setup as my working HD for processing (scratch drive) in Lightroom and Photoshop (I also do my HD video editing on the drive). I am NOT using it as my OS drive, as I am not concerned with boot up times and such. I do love how quickly I can move from one photo to another in LR and PS. Once I have completed my photos they go on an external storage setup (1tb x 2 in RAID 1).

Anytime you feel like the SSD raid array is slowing down, simply "format" (not really a format, just using term for simplicity) and the drives are back to normal.

My two cents... the attached shows the read and write capabilities of SSD in RAID.

[YP5 Toronto]

oh...substitute the ram with these... better timings and cheaper.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227381

[slappy sam]

^^
Interesting. Going against the grain of those so far in this thread, haha. I noticed in the "what is your computer build" thread, another guy had 3x30gb vertex as well.

I'm kinda waffling on the ssd thing... I can't afford to buy two of them. Dunno if I really even need that intense a computer.

Thanks for the ram tip, thats a pretty obvious one.

My real main concern for this next computer is that I want it to be able to multitask very well (like right now, I have about 15 ff tabs open, 4 windows explorer windows, bridge, photoshop is batching, itunes is playing, and I've got a java IDE up that I'm working in). I'm really looking to both minimize processing times in photoshop/batching, as well as maximize the amount of stuff I can do all at once. To be honest, my computer is still doing a fair job at all this, but I notice that it does lack when it comes to processing in photoshop. If I use preview in bridge and zoom to 100% it takes the computer a few seconds to "render" the image instead of using the preview it already has, which is annoying. If I do upgrade to a 5d2, not only will I have the problem of these files being more than twice as large, but I will have video as well, which is a whole other beast. Plus, I can't game on this computer at all really.

[YP5 Toronto]

Keep within you budget. I would not bother with ONE SSD. SSD will come down later this year. one of the SLOWEST components on computers over the past 5 years have been the HDs. My biggest gains in "real life" performance has come from SSD Raid Arrays. The annoying "rendering" completely disappers now that I work from the SSD array.

The reason you see many 3 x XXgb in raid on most motherboard controller setups as anything more than that the onboard ICH10R chipset maxes out.

The SSD drives that were out in late 2008 and early 2009 gave the casual reader a bad impression. The new Vertex drives from OCZ totally overcome many of the hicups. They are outperforming the Intel drives and offer the best performance. All the other brands that have launched SSD drives have not been good to their customers via firmware updates and support. OCZ has put a ton of their resources into this new product catagory.

From what you just posted the setup you have noted will accomplish much of what you need. Think of an SSD array as the cherry on your sundae.

My build is extremely similars to what you propose.

[tim]

Get enough memory and Vista/Windows 7 will cache a lot of things for you. As for the idea of RAID SSDs, that's expensive and to me not entirely useful - though it might be to really low volume photographers. With 15 weddings in active processing at any one time I have 300GB of RAW files, plus some psd files, album layouts, etc, taking it up to 500GB or more. A little SSD really isn't worth the bother as it'd have to keep getting swapped from hard drive.

A have Q6600 system with four hard drives, and i'm not sure what's limiting me. During RAW batch conversion the drives tick along steadily but not at full capacity. The four cores go from 20-80% utilisation. I guess there's bottlenecks in IO somewhere, which the i7 should address to some extent. But I still don't think hard drive is a massive constraint if you have enough RAM.

[Faolan]

My reading says Core i7 is quite a way ahead of AMD right now, but AMD are better value and decent performance.

The Phenom II 955 has been rated as good as/better than the i7 920 processor plus will probalby have a better longevity. Almost all review sites agreed on this. The AM3 socket is likely to be here for another 2 years.

Intel on the other hand generally changes sockets every new generation of processors.

Of course when you start going into higher end i7s then their performance dominates over the Phenom II, however, the Phenom II was never a i7 killer nor ever was targetted to be so.

[tim]

The Phenom II 955 has been rated as good as/better than the i7 920 processor plus will probalby have a better longevity. Almost all review sites agreed on this. The AM3 socket is likely to be here for another 2 years.

Intel on the other hand generally changes sockets every new generation of processors.

Of course when you start going into higher end i7s then their performance dominates over the Phenom II, however, the Phenom II was never a i7 killer nor ever was targetted to be so.

Read this (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3492&p=20) and this (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3492&p=13). I personally don't care either way which is faster, but the Core i7 seems to take the cake by a fair margin in most tests. It's meant to overclock well too.

[YP5 Toronto]

Intel on the other hand generally changes sockets every new generation of processors.

umm....the 775 socket was around for 5+ years.

[Moppie]

umm....the 775 socket was around for 5+ years.


and is still around. Intel still make sell dual and quad core processors for the 775 socket, and there are lots of m/b to choose from.





slappy sam, for multi tasking and batch processing at the same time an i7 with 6GB of RAM will be about as good as you can get. Anything more won't be fully utilised as you go beyond what is needed to process photos from current generation cameras.
The SSD will help, but to be honest, I doubt it will be enough to ever notice the difference.

Instead look at investing that money in an internal and external back up, and as away of keeping your photos on thier own independant hard disk.

[Bobster]

I second the comment on the SSD. I use one for work (not as a primary drive though). At first, the performance is astonishing, but over time, the performance dips due to the way that the controller writes to the disk (reads and access times are far quicker than normal drives, but over time, write speeds diminish, so not really applicable for use as a scratch disk).

Over time, the SSD drive controllers will improve, but they're not at that stage yet.

You're better off with proven spinning plates.

this is true, but as a scratch disk it wont hurt formatting it each day to keep the performance up..

i wouldn't suggest using SSD drives for system etc (even in RAID) sure all those benchmarks you see are great, but as pointed out above, over a short amount of them the performance dips

[Bobster]

Intel on the other hand generally changes sockets every new generation of processors.
this used to be the case when AMD used the same motherboards as Intel, because they wanted to slow the RD down of AMD so they could get the upper hand, remember when Intel went from Socket to Slot and then back to socket again?

[Faolan]

AMD sockets are generally backwards compatible to one degree or another as are the processors. They use the same socket throughout the range (apart from the Server market), unlike Intel which uses 3-4 (at least when I last checked) sockets throughout their current range.

Add into the fact Intel will be introducing another socket later this year for the i5 series.

Tim:

I said the Phenom II 955BE, not the other processors.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=825&p=8
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_phenom_2_x4_955_review/page10.asp
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1560&pageID=6828
http://techreport.com/articles.x/16796/15
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=18149&page=12

Considering that that the 955 is not targetting the i7 it does hold up reasonably well plus if overclocking is your thing then AMDs Dragon platform has made this a lot easier with the Fusion concept. The 955 has hit 4.7Ghz on air.

If you have the money and have absolute need for speed then the i7 is the obvious choice but I have used both platforms and to be honest there's not that much difference when it comes to day to day tasks, even when I had to use Smart blur there was only a 2-3 second difference on each comparable system.

Personally I'd rather save the £100-150 and put that elsewhere in the system. With Photoshop in particular RAM is far, far more important that processor speed.

[YP5 Toronto]

i wouldn't suggest using SSD drives for system etc (even in RAID) sure all those benchmarks you see are great, but as pointed out above, over a short amount of them the performance dips


.....?????

There are utilities in place and being further developed that allow you to wipe them clean and bring them back to optimal performance.

Moreover, the drop in performance over time is still nominal when compared to the performance of traditional HDs.

I am not debating the the cost of them..as they are higher per GB, but make no mistake they perform.

[Faolan]

The reason why the performance can degrade is the lack of a Trim command. More here:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531&p=10

[Bobster]

.....?????

There are utilities in place and being further developed that allow you to wipe them clean and bring them back to optimal performance.
which is why i said it would be fine as PS scratch, but i wouldnt use it for a system drive...

[ben805]

I'm running 3 x30GB Vertex in RAID 0 and to be honest other than in Benchmark I do not see much benefit out of them, apps and games loading time is quicker but it is not the "lightning fast" as I had expected. If I have to do it all over again I would definitely skip the SSD, it's overrated IMO. Read up at OCZ forum, all SSD drive will need to be TRIM (much sooner if you write on the disk alot). If I were you I'd get another 1TB WD Black and use your WD Green as backup.

PSU, pay slightly more and get the Corsair 850W instead for future expansion.

Ram, get the OCZ Platinum instead, the price is so close and there is no reason not to get the faster timing version. Photo and video editing can utilize the extra memory bandwidth so get the Platinum. Last time I checked it was $96 from newegg with free OCZ USB thumbdrive. Run 6GB for now and monitor your ram usage to see if you ever run out of physical ram and starting paging into disk.

CPU and cooler, if you do not plan on overclocking...any retail 920 with stock cooler is fine. If you want to overclock, a good air cooler is a must (google search core i7 heatsink/cooler shootout), these core i7 generate massive amount of heatload. Before I went water cooling my underload temperature during Prime95 and LinX went up to 85~90'C @3.8Ghz with HT On. Try to look for the new stepping D0 (SLBEJ) if possible, default vcore runs at 1.15v intead of 1.25v, much cooler running and higher overclocking potential, if you shop around it cost about the same as the old C0 (SLBCH) stepping, for more information regarding overclocking go to forum such as overclock.net or xtremesystem.

The rest of your hardware list is fine.

[slappy sam]

I'm running 3 x30GB Vertex in RAID 0 and to be honest other than in Benchmark I do not see much benefit out of them, apps and games loading time is quicker but it is not the "lightning fast" as I had expected. If I have to do it all over again I would definitely skip the SSD, it's overrated IMO. Read up at OCZ forum, all SSD drive will need to be TRIM (much sooner if you write on the disk alot). If I were you I'd get another 1TB WD Black and use your WD Green as backup.

PSU, pay slightly more and get the Corsair 850W instead for future expansion.

Ram, get the OCZ Platinum instead, the price is so close and there is no reason not to get the faster timing version. Photo and video editing can utilize the extra memory bandwidth so get the Platinum. Last time I checked it was $96 from newegg with free OCZ USB thumbdrive. Run 6GB for now and monitor your ram usage to see if you ever run out of physical ram and starting paging into disk.

CPU and cooler, if you do not plan on overclocking...any retail 920 with stock cooler is fine. If you want to overclock, a good air cooler is a must (google search core i7 heatsink/cooler shootout), these core i7 generate massive amount of heatload. Before I went water cooling my underload temperature during Prime95 and LinX went up to 85~90'C @3.8Ghz with HT On. Try to look for the new stepping D0 (SLBEJ) if possible, default vcore runs at 1.15v intead of 1.25v, much cooler running and higher overclocking potential, if you shop around it cost about the same as the old C0 (SLBCH) stepping, for more information regarding overclocking go to forum such as overclock.net or xtremesystem.

The rest of your hardware list is fine.
Super helpful post, was leaning towards the 1tb wd black already. Now pretty much definite. Also will be getting ocz platinum ram as well.

I'm going to look into over clocking, half of that paragraph was gibberish to me lol I understand the very basics of it but would need to read about it more to decide whether or not I want to pursue an aftermarket cooling/overclocking setup.

Thanks.

[tim]

Tim:

I said the Phenom II 955BE, not the other processors.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=825&p=8
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_phenom_2_x4_955_review/page10.asp
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1560&pageID=6828
http://techreport.com/articles.x/16796/15
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=18149&page=12


They look like good value.