Brand Name Neutral Density - Does It Matter for ND?

[cpforyou]

I normally don't take waterfall pictures or pictures of the great outdoors. I'm going to Yosemite in two weeks.

I only have UV and CP filters for my lenses.

Now, I'm going to get a Neutral Density (ND) filter for outdoorsy type pictures like those at Yosemite.

My question is, does the brand really make a difference with ND filters? With UV and CP, it did, because you want a decent amount of light transmission.

With ND filters, why does it matter since you are reducing light transmission?

versus say a generic set on eBay for $40.

[Jon]

Brand names are recommended less for "light transmission" per se than they are for multicoating which reduces light reflections (that cause flare) and for their better optical properties (i.e., plane parallel glass surfaces, absence of stress in the medium) that can add distortion to your images.

[czeglin]

I'm not speaking from personal experience, but I have read that some brands are not truly "neutral" density filters and will leave you with a color cast. I think purple is the usual complaint.

[timnosenzo]

With ND filters, why does it matter since you are reducing light transmission?

versus say a generic set on eBay for $40.

It definitely matters. You're putting a piece of glass in front of your lens, if it's crappy glass, it will negatively impact your photos. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. ;) Also as stated, ND filters are supposed to be neutral, but cheap ones will likely have a color cast.

[c2thew]

people keep saying that there is a substantial difference in putting say cokin filters in front of the lens, however i went to my local camera store to see for myself. i sifted through 8 cokin filters and waved them left and right over my eye and could not distinguish any loss of image quality. however, i did not take any pictures with them, so take that with a grain of salt.

i personally just ordered a kit from the place you specified: ND8, gnd red, gnd blue, gnd gray, and 77mm filter holder.

the downside is the wait. things that ship from hong kong usually take 2 weeks minimum to get to the states. i'll comment on them when i get them

[fanorama]

It definitely matters. You're putting a piece of glass in front of your lens, if it's crappy glass, it will negatively impact your photos. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. ;) Also as stated, ND filters are supposed to be neutral, but cheap ones will likely have a color cast.

Yeah! I definitely agree.. http://www.picturehoster.org/storage/411.jpg

[Jon]

people keep saying that there is a substantial difference in putting say cokin filters in front of the lens, however i went to my local camera store to see for myself. i sifted through 8 cokin filters and waved them left and right over my eye and could not distinguish any loss of image quality. however, i did not take any pictures with them, so take that with a grain of salt.

i personally just ordered a kit from the place you specified: ND8, gnd red, gnd blue, gnd gray, and 77mm filter holder.

the downside is the wait. things that ship from hong kong usually take 2 weeks minimum to get to the states. i'll comment on them when i get themAsk yourself which is more sensitive to getting white balance wrong - your eye or the camera. And have you ever tried to zoom in on part of the image your eye sees?

[CronoDL]

It definitely does make a difference. The only ND filter I've bought is a Hoya 2 stop ND. Not a Pro 1 or anything with a special coating. It has a nasty green color cast. You can tell it's green just by looking through the viewfinder. It can be fixed by using a custom WB or correcting in RAW, but I'd rather use one that doesn't have a color cast to begin with.

[argyle]

And some report that the B+W 10-stop leaves a magenta color cast...

[tgara]

Ken Rockwell has an interesting review of ND filters, mostly Grads tho.

http://kenrockwell.com/tech/grads.htm

I didn't know some were plastic! :confused: I ended up getting the Tiffen 0.6 GND he uses. Worked great!

[Jon]

Ken Rockwell uses Tiffen? More proof of the unreliability of both! Tiffen filters are among the ones that have a very pronounced effect on image quality, and Ken Rockwell isn't exactly noted for dispassionate, objective reporting.

There's nothing whatever wrong with "plastic" ND filters. In fact most rectangular filters, and the only grads you should even consider using, are resin. If you're using a grad, a circular filter is absolutely the wrong thing to get - you won't be able to adjust the transition zone to match your composition, and will have to match the composition to your filter. With a rectangular filter, you can adjust where the transition falls.

Personally, I suspect the magenta cast that shows up to varying degrees when using strong ND filters is the result of IR, which the filters may not be blocking. No test data to support it, so at the moment it's just a hypothesis, but it would explain the problems with high density combinations.

[tgara]

I hear you Jon, but the screw-in type works perfectly for my applications. And it's a lot less stuff to carry too. I thought about the drop-in type GND filters, but for the handful of times I use them, I could not justify the extra expense or bulk.

[Dan Martin]

The dark B+W filters have a unique colour outdoors because they tend to pass some IR. That being said, I love the look!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3429/3374002186_336d58e70d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/acurazinedan/3374002186)

[c2thew]

just got my tian ya filters in today. i'll post some pictures about it tomorrow.

initial review: exactly like cokin filters. for those of you who say that cokin filters are bad, they really aren't. I've spent a good 10 minutes passing the glass back and forth to my eye and could not tell any difference or cloudiness in the image quality. i'll take some pictures and provide 100 % crops of with and without the filter.

filters i ordered: gnd red, blue, gray, and ND8.

The filter holder does intrude on the lens at 16mm up until about 24mm. i'm thinking about cutting off the second layer as others have done to prevent further intrusion into my wide angle settings.

overall, very satisfied with this purchase. the filters make my camera feel brand new once more.

[Jon]

I wouldn't rely on what you can distinguish by holding the filters in front of your eyes. The post-processing your brain supplies can mask a multitude of sins, especially colour casts, and you lack the precision to identify aberrations. The test is in the pictures, and Cokins do show colour casts, as has repeatedly been shown here.

[bohdank]

The dark B+W filters have a unique colour outdoors because they tend to pass some IR. That being said, I love the look!



That makes no sense.

If it did then not having any filter would produce an even stronger effect.

No, it's the filter that is giving the color cast.

[Jon]

It does if you actually think about it. Your sensor's IR cutoff filter passes some IR or you wouldn't be able to take IR images with unmodified cameras and an IR pass filter. Still, the exposure time is lengthened because the IR cutoff filter does block much of the IR. An ND filter increases your exposure time; if it doesn't block IR, the IR will have more effect on the ultimate exposure. This will certainly explain colour casts from stacked ND filters or extremely dense ones. However, Cokins show the colour cast at such a low density level that they probably do have a colour cast as well.

[bohdank]

That explanation makes sense.

I understand that most lenses do not pass much if any IR, also ?

[Dan Martin]

That explanation makes sense.

I understand that most lenses do not pass much if any IR, also ?

I can't think of any lenses that block IR. Some lenses have "hot spots" in the center of the frame when shooting IR, if that's what you're thinking of.

[Jon]

It's because lenses don't stop IR that your sensor has an IR cutoff filter in place :{)#

[c2thew]

Here are some pictures of my tianya filters from that auction site
GND red
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/TianredRedGND.jpg

ND 8http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/ND8filter.jpg

100% crophttp://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/TianyaGNDredblue100crop.jpg

GND red + GND blue stacked
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/TianyaGNDgray100crop.jpg
100% crop of stacked filters ( i don't see any loss of sharpness)

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_5235-1.jpg
No filters 100% crop
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_5235.jpg
As shot, no filters though the tianya filter holder (modded to reduce intrusion is on.) you can see even after the mod, some slight vignetting, but nothing serious.

[c2thew]

part 2
This is the ND 8 filter
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_5240.jpg
Blue GND filter, designed exactly like a cokin filter setup.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_5233.jpg
Stacked blue + red filter to create purple gnd. i pushed the filters down.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_5220.jpg
16mm with modded filter holder (i took a dremmel tool and cut off the 2nd filter holder, but left the middle portion in tact so that i could still "snap on" a filter effectively retaining my 2 filter holder. I also sanded the corners down as they were causing vignetting. (yes that is a dust spot on my sensor)
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_5218.jpg
100% stock filter holder (what you see without modding the filter holder at 16mm) You can zoom to 20mm and the vignetting will be gone, but that would defeat the purpose of using these filters on a wide angle lens.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_5217.jpg
stacked red + blue example zoomed at 20mm (pre modification)
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_5214.jpg
The setup
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_4627.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/Canon%205d%20%20%20tianya%20filter/IMG_4624.jpg

[traildad]

What brand is recommended for consumer level ND filters. I would like to be able to create motion in bight light situations. I see Tiffen, Hoya, Dolica, and B&W. It seems that only the Hoya are multi coated or even coated at all for that matter. Hoya is not too much more than Tiffen for a multicoated filter. I plan to get a .3, .6 and .9 to use and stack. 58mm filters for my Canon A720IS.