Confused with 430ex II with Canon 50d...need HELP please!!!

[belsokar]

Alright, I just picked up a canon 50d, and 430ex II flash...I'm not sure if I accidentally changed some setting some where, but I'm not understanding why my camera is picking the settings it is picking...

Here is my situation:

I'm just in my family room testing my flash settings, bouncing the flash off the ceiling, taking test pictures of my wife. If I set the camera to 'Auto', the camera selects the following:

Shutter: 1/60"
Aperture: 4.5
ISO: 400

Picture looks good, settings I'm totally comfortable with....but I prefer to shoot Manual or Av...When shooting in Av, I go ahead and set the camera to Aperture = 4.5, ISO = 'Auto'....

I try to shoot the same subject, same lighting, and the camera selects the following:

Shutter: 1/4"
ISO: 400

I just don't understand why the camera is selecting such a slow shutter...it is obviously wrong to me, and the resulting image is of course blurry...

Similarly, if I select Manual, and set all the settings to the results of Auto settings above, it flashes that the image is underexposed...so I'm a bit confused, and wondering if anyone has any tips or advice???

thanks in advance!

I'm not sure if I've somehow disabled something somewhere while playing with the camera...

[craiglee]

It depends on what metering mode you're using.

[johnboy00]

Using flash in Av mode, the camera exposes the scene as metered with existing light, adding flash to fill the subject. For a specific aperture with flash in dark scenes (indoors), use M mode instead. Pick your aperture, set shutter to 1/60 or so (up to 1/250), and the flash will fire to correctly expose the scene.

[belsokar]

Using flash in Av mode, the camera exposes the scene as metered with existing light, adding flash to fill the subject. For a specific aperture with flash in dark scenes (indoors), use M mode instead. Pick your aperture, set shutter to 1/60 or so (up to 1/250), and the flash will fire to correctly expose the scene.

So in my case, I set the camera to Manual, and set all the settings exactly as how the 'Auto' setting set it...

Shutter: 1/60"
Aperture: 4.5
ISO: 400

And the Aperture was flashing which to my understanding is telling me the shot was underexposed...is that what I should expect?

[AlanU]

When using flash as a main light source set your aperature to your liking and shutter speed upto 1/250, ISO 320 or 400 and use the FEC buttons on the flash to get your proper exposure. You will find that as you slow down your shutter speed you'll allow more ambient exposure.

For indoors I will only use AV mode when its extremely bright with alot of natural light from the windows. OR set to manual and control the SS to get proper exposure.

[aia21]

So in my case, I set the camera to Manual, and set all the settings exactly as how the 'Auto' setting set it...

Shutter: 1/60"
Aperture: 4.5
ISO: 400

And the Aperture was flashing which to my understanding is telling me the shot was underexposed...is that what I should expect?

Yes, that is correct. Remember the camera meter that tells you it is underexposing is due to there not being enough ambient light. But this you already know - that's why you are using the flash! When using flash like this you can completely ignore the camera meter. Instead, after taking a shot, look at the back of the flash to see if the 'correct exposure light' has come on. If yes your flash thinks all got exposed correctly. Also look at your histogram and the actual photo on the LCD to determine whether it was exposed correctly. If not, dial in flash exposure compensation (FEC). +FEC will give you more flash and -FEC will give you less flash.

Note I would never use 1/60s for shutter when using flash. I always shoot with 1/200 or 1/250s to ensure no motion blur... Also ISO 400 is not needed. ISO 200 is just fine. You can push it to ISO 400 if you need to conserve batteries or your flash power is too stretched (too large distance/large room/whatever)...

Also, when in Av mode your camera exposes for ambient with flash fill which is why it selects very slow shutter. If you want it to expose for flash, set in the custom functions of your camera to use 1/250s when flash is enabled in Av mode... Then Av becomes very similar to using M mode which is why most people just go with M mode to start with.

In summary when bouncing flash you generally will get best results with:

Camera in M mode:
- ISO200 or ISO400 (though lower and higher is ok, too if you need/want it)
- 1/200-1/250s shutter speed and select your aperture to suit the depth of field you want to achieve. I usually shoot at f/5.8 but change to slower apertures for group shots or faster apertures to isolate subject from background / for portraits...
- +1/3FEC (I find when ceiling bouncing the flash I need +1/3FEC to get a well exposed image most of the time)

In fact I have those settings saved in one of my custom modes on my 40D so I just have to put on my 580EX II, turn it on, turn the mode dial on my 40D to C1 and I can start making nice flash shots. (-:

Once you get comfortable with the above/adapt to your environment you can start thinking more creatively and start paying attention to your camera meter as well.

Because a flash photograph is really two photographs in one: the ambient light one and the flash one. The flash one we have discussed above. But what about the ambient?

By selecting a slower shutter speed (and if needed higher ISO and lower aperture) you will increase the amount of ambient light contributing to the overall photograph.

This is where the camera meter comes in handy.

For example, you want to ignore the ambient light pretty much completely, then you would choose the settings I described above and you will likely find your camera meter being at the bottom of the scale (i.e. left most) indicating your are -2EV or more underexposing the ambient light. Thus flash contributes almost all the light in the photo.

But if you want to get more of the ambient light into the photo, e.g. so the background in a large room does not look completely black, dial down the shutter speed till the camera meter shows -1EV or so. Then take the photo. Now your flash will fire with less power (automatically because your flash is in ETTL mode controlled by the camera) and a higher proportion of the photograph will come from the ambient light than before.

If you want basically an ambient light photo but the faces are in the shade / sun is behind your subjects, etc, you want the opposite effect so you would expose your photo such that your background meters at 0EV, i.e. in the centre of the camera meter which suggests it will be exposed correctly without flash. Then you would dial in negative FEC, e.g. -1 FEC, for the flash which causes only a little fill light to come in via the flash and brighten up the dark faces in the photo. If shooting against the sun you probably will not need negative FEC as you will effectively need to overpower/equal the sun... Obviously if using outdoors you would point the flash straight on and not upwards as there is no ceiling to bounce from.

Finally, something worthy of note is that when shooting people, it can be a nice effect to not expose the whole photo 'correctly' but to leave the background at -1EV with the people forming the focus of the image correctly exposed. This actually looks really nice and cause the people to stand out / "pop" out of the photo. Especially good at parties / busy and distracting backgrounds... :)

Best regards,

Anton

[belsokar]

Yes, that is correct. Remember the camera meter that tells you it is underexposing is due to there not being enough ambient light. But this you already know - that's why you are using the flash! When using flash like this you can completely ignore the camera meter. Instead, after taking a shot, look at the back of the flash to see if the 'correct exposure light' has come on. If yes your flash thinks all got exposed correctly. Also look at your histogram and the actual photo on the LCD to determine whether it was exposed correctly. If not, dial in flash exposure compensation (FEC). +FEC will give you more flash and -FEC will give you less flash.

...

Anton

Wow! I really appreciate the reply...I'm fairly comfortable with my camera in normal standard lighting (i.e. no flash), but I'm just getting my feet wet when it comes to professional flash...your comments make alot of sense, and the first thing I do tonight when I get home will be to start incorporating what you stated...

Again, thank you very much for your help...

[Roach182]

Yes, that is correct. Remember the camera meter that tells you it is underexposing is due to there not being enough ambient light. But this you already know - that's why you are using the flash! When using flash like this you can completely ignore the camera meter. Instead, after taking a shot, look at the back of the flash to see if the 'correct exposure light' has come on. If yes your flash thinks all got exposed correctly. Also look at your histogram and the actual photo on the LCD to determine whether it was exposed correctly. If not, dial in flash exposure compensation (FEC). +FEC will give you more flash and -FEC will give you less flash.

Note I would never use 1/60s for shutter when using flash. I always shoot with 1/200 or 1/250s to ensure no motion blur... Also ISO 400 is not needed. ISO 200 is just fine. You can push it to ISO 400 if you need to conserve batteries or your flash power is too stretched (too large distance/large room/whatever)...

Also, when in Av mode your camera exposes for ambient with flash fill which is why it selects very slow shutter. If you want it to expose for flash, set in the custom functions of your camera to use 1/250s when flash is enabled in Av mode... Then Av becomes very similar to using M mode which is why most people just go with M mode to start with.

In summary when bouncing flash you generally will get best results with:

Camera in M mode:
- ISO200 or ISO400 (though lower and higher is ok, too if you need/want it)
- 1/200-1/250s shutter speed and select your aperture to suit the depth of field you want to achieve. I usually shoot at f/5.8 but change to slower apertures for group shots or faster apertures to isolate subject from background / for portraits...
- +1/3FEC (I find when ceiling bouncing the flash I need +1/3FEC to get a well exposed image most of the time)

In fact I have those settings saved in one of my custom modes on my 40D so I just have to put on my 580EX II, turn it on, turn the mode dial on my 40D to C1 and I can start making nice flash shots. (-:

Once you get comfortable with the above/adapt to your environment you can start thinking more creatively and start paying attention to your camera meter as well.

Because a flash photograph is really two photographs in one: the ambient light one and the flash one. The flash one we have discussed above. But what about the ambient?

By selecting a slower shutter speed (and if needed higher ISO and lower aperture) you will increase the amount of ambient light contributing to the overall photograph.

This is where the camera meter comes in handy.

For example, you want to ignore the ambient light pretty much completely, then you would choose the settings I described above and you will likely find your camera meter being at the bottom of the scale (i.e. left most) indicating your are -2EV or more underexposing the ambient light. Thus flash contributes almost all the light in the photo.

But if you want to get more of the ambient light into the photo, e.g. so the background in a large room does not look completely black, dial down the shutter speed till the camera meter shows -1EV or so. Then take the photo. Now your flash will fire with less power (automatically because your flash is in ETTL mode controlled by the camera) and a higher proportion of the photograph will come from the ambient light than before.

If you want basically an ambient light photo but the faces are in the shade / sun is behind your subjects, etc, you want the opposite effect so you would expose your photo such that your background meters at 0EV, i.e. in the centre of the camera meter which suggests it will be exposed correctly without flash. Then you would dial in negative FEC, e.g. -1 FEC, for the flash which causes only a little fill light to come in via the flash and brighten up the dark faces in the photo. If shooting against the sun you probably will not need negative FEC as you will effectively need to overpower/equal the sun... Obviously if using outdoors you would point the flash straight on and not upwards as there is no ceiling to bounce from.

Finally, something worthy of note is that when shooting people, it can be a nice effect to not expose the whole photo 'correctly' but to leave the background at -1EV with the people forming the focus of the image correctly exposed. This actually looks really nice and cause the people to stand out / "pop" out of the photo. Especially good at parties / busy and distracting backgrounds... :)

Best regards,

Anton

Sorry about digging up an old thread.

Anton, thank you very much.
I just bought a 430ex II for my T1i. I was confused on the best way to use it, and a lot of the articles I googled seemed to confuse me even more. What you have written was very easy for me to understand and very helpful.

Once again, Thanks.

Roach

[aia21]

You are welcome! I am glad it was useful. :)

Best regards,

Anton