Inline Hockey input request

[essvee]

Greetings all. I’d like some input on how to improve my results and streamline the throughput of shots taken at a local indoor hockey rink. Let me express my appreciation in advance for taking the time to read this and for any input.

The particulars: Indoor inline-hockey facility, high-bay lighting (apparently mixed lighting types giving different color-cast, to boot). Light spacing results in hot spots in the rink, as evidenced by the un-processed photo. I shoot through the glass for shots around the net and some from the benches or penalty box. I’ll leave discussion about dealing with reflections in the glass for later. The glass is tinted and I lose another half stop at least, but the action is so much more accessible, it’s worth the effort.

I’m shooting with a 40D body and a 70-200 2.8L. Camera set to ISO 3200. Action shots are shot at f/2.8 at 1/500 but I’ll cheat a little and edge it down to 1/400 in the darker end of the rink and sometimes 1/125 if I want to get some motion blur behind players skating by the bench. Shooting is either RAW or sRAW.

This results in underexposure of between 1 and 2 stops, with the occasional need to push 2.5 stops. And a lot of noise.

I’d like to PP these as expeditiously as possible so I’m usually using Lightroom. As there are quite a few images, dealing with each in Photoshop is tedious, though the results are much better. I have been adjusting the shots with most potential in PS with relative success but that means several adjusting layers with various masks to deal with the multiple issues.

So here is an example through the glass chosen less for action and composition and more for lighting and noise. I’m trying to focus on the face, which is lit very indirectly as the subject is essentially backlit here. Noise reduction is 100%. Some shots seem to benefit from edging the Clarity slider down, to soften the noise, but then the images get too soft for my liking.

How would you adjust this shot to deal with lighting and noise? I’d really prefer my shots to be sharper. Am I expecting too much from Lightroom? Would you change any of the camera settings? Oh, Great POTN gurus…. Please enlighten me!

Thanks!

Ed

PS: I’m just a dad with a camera getting some shots for the kids to keep as memories. I’m not making a dime on this and I obviously can’t justify spending a ton of time doing PP.

http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/edspix_2007/POTN/?action=view&current=IMG_4473.jpghttp://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/edspix_2007/POTN/?action=view&current=IMG_4473.jpghttp://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/edspix_2007/POTN/?action=view&current=IMG_4473.jpghttp://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/edspix_2007/POTN/IMG_4473.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/edspix_2007/POTN/Processing.jpg
http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/edspix_2007/POTN/?action=view&current=Processing.jpg

[cstewart]

You are on the right track! Very cook that they paint the surface white just like ice. My basic settings for hockey are 3200 or 1600ISO depending on lighting, 1/400 or 1/500 shutter (no lower), f2.8 or 3.2 if I can get it, shoot RAW, manual mode, I use the back * button to focus and I will usually overexpose as much as possible by +1 or +2/3...and then still need to change in LR. For white balance, I often use AWB or else shoot a custom white balance off the ice surface. Where the lights heavily color cycle sometimes neither works well.

In Lightroom, my basic settings are to sharpen to amount 70, radius 1.0. detail 25. For 3200 ISO I will bump Luminance NR up to about 75 and maybe color to 50...I never go to 100. I will almost always bump exposure up about the same amount you have. I usually do NOT use the fill light nor do I touch clarity slider although it can help with shots through glass.

One thing you can do too which I find great in LR 2.0 is to get things looking correct for the player (which usually will blow out the ice) and then use the graduated filter tool (the second from right under the histogram) and drag this across ice surface ,in you case from bottom right to perhaps halfway across image. Then drop the exposure slider down a bit to get the ice looking normal again.

You can also use the Adjustment Brush tool to selective dodge and burn a face too!

If you want to see some examples from this past season of my indoor hockey using such settings and PP, head to www.cjscons.com/smha

Cheers!

Chris

[essvee]

Thanks for the tips, Chris!

The rink is actually some sort of engineered tile surface, not painted (except for the lines, of course). The refs really come down on the players if they whack the surface in anger because it can fracture the tile$.

I've tried much of what you've suggested, but I'm still not getting the sharpness and contrast you're achieving in your pics (NICE site, btw!) One thing I'm not following you on: How are you managing to OVER expose when light is already at a premium. The only way I could let in more light is to slow the exposure and then I'll have blurry players. Am I missing something?

I share your pain about the White Balance. Sometimes I'll have a frame with two totally different color balances. I've used the graduated filter to resolve that.

Thanks again!

[cstewart]

Ed:

I guess what I am saying, hopefully clearer this time, is in manual mode, with my ISO up at 3200 my aperture at f2.8 and shutter of 1/400, this will put me at a +2/3 to +1 on my EV meter, the little guide at the bottom of the screen in your viewfinder. This "overexposes" or ensures my histogram is more to the right. I do this where possible and as light allows. The more you can do this in camera, the less bump you will need to exposure in Lightroom (which will still be needed I find but less so).

Also, as to focus, do you use the shutter half press to engage the AI Servo or do you use the * button on the back. You should learn how to move focus to * button and separate it from the shutter as you will get better results with practice. This allows you to set/start focus independently of exposure (shutter). Once I switched to this method for hockey my in focus keepers improved dramatically. Search on here for Custom Fn IV to learn more about it. Also, be sure you are using center point focus and try to keep subject in center of frame (and crop later for effect as needed).

[essvee]

Thanks, Chris.

Oh, how I WISH I had that much light to work with! With f/2.8 and 1/500th at ISO3200 I am usually one stop under in the HIGHLIGHTS! Even more if I shoot through the tinted glass.

I have an image up on my other monitor at the moment that perfectly illustrates the problem but I don't want to run afoul of the two post per thread limit. It's shot at the settings above and there's a rather underexposed image of a hockey rink with alternating circles of white and dark pink spaced apart on 30 foot centers. It's pretty dark in there, I'm telling ya!

PS editing is yielding results if I work with levels to color balance then smooth out the noise and sharpen. It's just a lot of steps and they're unique to each image so I can't just create an action to apply them. I was hoping I was missing some great combination of tools in LR that might streamline the process. Tone Curve gets me mediocre results, but it still leaves a little to be desired. I'm afraid I'm just not starting off with enough light.

I *have* played around with back button AF but didn't really "get it" at the time. After your post last night, though, I plugged it into the user mode I have for sports. It's something I plan to play with next opportunity. Thanks for the reminder and for the rest of your tips.

Ed

[cstewart]

Ed:

You can add another photo if it is needed for the thread. Also, if you can host your images somewhere and then "embed" them in the thread, you can actually post up to 8 images!

I guess there are darker hockey rinks around than the ones I shoot in!

[essvee]

Here you go. An un-adjusted image. You can see by the histogram how under-exposed it is at ISO3200, f/2.8 and 1/500th. It gets even darker in the corner where I'm shooting (Image is shot towards the BRIGHT end).

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/edspix_2007/POTN/Picture4.jpg

[cstewart]

First thought is that this will be a pretty huge crop and IQ may suffer as a result. Let play get closer to you. Yep, the color cycles on the lights look horrible here!

Having said that though, here is how I would proceed with this image...first check focus by zooming in to 1:1. For the purposes of this lets assume focus is on (although to be honest is does not look to sharp to begin with).

1. Crop and straighten horizon to 5 x 7 or 8 x 10 dimension, vertical or horizontal, whatever works best.
2. My defaults when I import are to sharpen Amount 70 and Blacks 10. This may be too much blacks but I can dial it down later as needed. Thus sharpen image to Amount 70 and adjust Blacks as needed.
3. Adjust white balance. You could likley use the eyedropper on his helmet and then adjust from there.
4. Adjust exposure to get face and uniforms where they need to be.
5. Adjust contrast a bit if shot through glass as this sometimes helps
6. Use recovery slider (not too much) or use Gradient filter tool to dial the ice back a bit if it got blown out.
7. At 3200 set your Noise Reduction to Luminance 75 and Color 50

Try an export to JPEG to see what this looks like and tweak any settings as needed and re-export with a new filename so you can then compare images. I usually export JPEGS and shrink to 800 pixel on the long side for preview and web purposes.

I do not mind some noise in my images and if printing it can be minimized a bit too. The other option of course is not getting the shot.

I am also thinking of adding another body to my gear and it will probably be the 50D or the 1dMark?? so that I can get a higher ISO setting specifically for hockey rinks that are way too dark.

As another example, here is an image below that I shot in our darkest rink when half the lights were not on due to malfunction. Through the glass. Image is full frame no crop. Normally I'd shoot 3200 ISO at 1/400 and f2.8 and the best I could get away with when the lights were out was 1/320 shutter and all else the same. Still way too dark. My settings in LR for this were:

WB Temp 3950
WB Tint +29
Exposure +2.10
Recovery 0
Fill Light 0
Blacks 8
Bright +50 default
Contrast +25 default
Clarity, Vibrance, Saturation All 0
Tone Curve Lights +5
Darks -5
Shadows +5
Sharpening Amout 70
Radius 1
Detail 25
Noise Reduction Both Luminance and Color to 75

I did not use gradient filter but could have as ice is really blown. It is not a great photo IQ wise, but shows you can get something out of nothing light wise!

http://www.cjscons.com/smha/feb28/bin/images/small/IMG_5345.jpg

[essvee]

Thanks, Chris.

That image is not a candidate for presentation. It's OOF, first of all, and just too wide to use. I was just using it to show you the conditions for the rink.

PS: That's a nice shot!



Edit: Shot description. Was thinking about a different shot.

[In2Photos]

Have you considered an 85 1.8, 100 f/2 or 135 f/2 to get more light? You could keep your settings at 1/500, ISO 3200, and use f/2. That should gain you one more stop of light and being a prime should yield better IQ than the 70-200.

[essvee]

Yeah. I'm keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a used lens, but frankly it's hard to justify that expense at the moment. An extra stop would probably be worth the need to do additional cropping.


Have you considered an 85 1.8, 100 f/2 or 135 f/2 to get more light? You could keep your settings at 1/500, ISO 3200, and use f/2. That should gain you one more stop of light and being a prime should yield better IQ than the 70-200.

[essvee]

Well, I think this is about as good as it gets for these. I discovered (then confirmed in Chris's example) that I'm much better off adjusting about half of the underexposure with the exposure slider in the tone dialog box then using the tone curves to finish. This one is took a half stop overall then creating some contrast by boosting the lights and darks then dropping the shadows. Still a little flat for my taste but it's a manageable workflow.

Thanks for your thoughts and examples, Chris. I'm looking forward to doing something with sunlight soon!

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/edspix_2007/POTN/IMG_4366.jpg

[cstewart]

Sunlight has its own set of problems to deal with!! :) shadows, backlighting...

Give me bright, even, no color cycle lighting indoors and bright, but overcast conditions outside and all will be good!

Image above looks great! Good work!

Chris