Comparing two systems, ones a Mac the other a PC?

[jeromego]

im in the market for a new system and i need help deciding whether i should get this mac system:

2.93GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB memory
640GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics

or this dell system:

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/desktop-studio-xps-435?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=dthp&s=dhs
or any suggestions that you guys might have. thanks.
[/SIZE]

[jeromego]

anyone?

[mikez]

The dell will demolish the Mac system.

[MaxxuM]

I think people are tired of the debate... for now. Why don't you just get what you want? If you love Mac's then get a Mac. If you don't know if you love Mac's then go use one for a while - say, for an hour. There are thousands of debates out there, just Google "Mac vs PC" and start reading.

[Stealthy Ninja]

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit

vs

OSX

That's what it comes down to.

Personally. Mac (I have a Vista machine for games only).

[jeromego]

I think people are tired of the debate... for now. Why don't you just get what you want? If you love Mac's then get a Mac. If you don't know if you love Mac's then go use one for a while - say, for an hour. There are thousands of debates out there, just Google "Mac vs PC" and start reading.
i havent tried the mac. but have been using vista. im not debating on any of these systems im merely asking for suggestions between those 2 exact systems i posted.

[MaxxuM]

i havent tried the mac. but have been using vista. im not debating on any of these systems im merely asking for suggestions between those 2 exact systems i posted.

What would you choose? A BMW M5 or a Corvette Z06? They are about as similar as the two computers you are comparing.

Go test drive them and pick the one that best suites your style and fills your requirements.

[Stealthy Ninja]

i havent tried the mac. but have been using vista. im not debating on any of these systems im merely asking for suggestions between those 2 exact systems i posted.

And the answer is that it really comes down to the operating system you prefer. OSX is based on Unix, so it's more stable and because Macs use their own hardware, they can utilise the resources slightly better.

PCs have more flexibility when it comes to upgrades and you can play games on them (they also get a lot more viruses :lol: ). A lot of people like PC because of the flexibility.

You can't directly compare the RAM etc. because they use it differently.

So the debate always comes down to operating system preference. :)

What would you choose? A BMW M5 or a Corvette Z06? They are about as similar as the two computers you are comparing.

Go test drive them and pick the one that best suites your style and fills your requirements.


+1

[Bob_A]

Since I don't own a Mac, so PC is obviously better :lol:

Honestly it doesn't really matter IMO. Just buy what you like and as much power as you can afford. PC's/Mac's are simply appliances now (i.e., nothing special) and whatever you go with it will be slow enough to make you itch for another upgrade within 4 years.

[hooookup]

having come from a pc to mac, I can honestly tell you that the mac is just easier to use and mine boots up in less than 30 seconds. opens cs4 in under 10.

[mikez]

having come from a pc to mac, I can honestly tell you that the mac is just easier to use and mine boots up in less than 30 seconds. opens cs4 in under 10.

What was your pc specs? I don't see how a Mac is better than a PC and yes I have both.

[Stealthy Ninja]

What was your pc specs? I don't see how a Mac is better than a PC and yes I have both.

I have both too (latest OSX and Windows Vista Premium 64bit).

Mac is much more stable... so on, you know the drill.

Vista is OK... you can play games.

I recently made the vista machine. But I got my mac about 2 years ago. I still prefer the mac (faster despite being "older").

[mikez]

I have both too (latest OSX and Windows Vista Premium 64bit).

Mac is much more stable... so on, you know the drill.

Vista is OK... you can play games.

I recently made the vista machine. But I got my mac about 2 years ago. I still prefer the mac (faster despite being "older").

And what's your specs? You are full of yourself if you think Mac is faster. Faster in what way? stable in what way? We can do a test now to see which is faster.

[Stealthy Ninja]

And what's your specs? You are full of yourself if you think Mac is faster. Faster in what way? stable in what way? We can do a test now to see which is faster.

I'm not going to debate this. Really not worth it.

I suspect you're a troll.

Unsubscribed.

[Moppie]

i havent tried the mac. but have been using vista. im not debating on any of these systems im merely asking for suggestions between those 2 exact systems i posted.



What do you want to do with your new computer?

It terms of performance the Dell is several generations ahead of the Mac, and will walk all over it if your multi tasking, batch processing, handling large image files, processing video etc.

[jeromego]

What do you want to do with your new computer?

It terms of performance the Dell is several generations ahead of the Mac, and will walk all over it if your multi tasking, batch processing, handling large image files, processing video etc.

just purely for photo editing of raw and jpeg files from my 5d2 with LR2 and CS4. no video editing, no gaming.

[mikez]

If you don't care about eye candy, stick with the Dell for performance.

Stealthy Ninja: Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Titus213]

I have made the decision to go with Mac when I upgrade my desktop system. Probably an iMac 24, or Mac Pro if there is a good refurb available at the time. The primary reason is I want to be a computer user, not a computer maintainer.

As to speed? I watch our son run Bridge CS3 on his last generation iMac and can not believe the performance. He was getting such fast response times compared to my older AMD x2 3800 that I asked what software he was using. I've never seen Bridge respond that quickly. Since photo, email, and web surfing is about all I do I figure an iMac 24 will last me a good long time. And I know from some experience that our MacBook requires less maint than my desktop.

[mikez]

The primary reason is I want to be a computer user, not a computer maintainer. People seriously need to think twice before they assert such comment. You need to look up the bench marks for yourself regarding photoshop in PC/windows and MAC with the same specs. A lot of Apple fan boy claimed Mac to be faster without thinking. They might be faster in photoshop back in the 90s but not now.

Computer maintainer? What is it that you have to do besides Maybe run a spyware check once a week just to be on a safe side? If you use firefox with ad block plus, flasblock and no script then you shouldn't have to.

[Village_Idiot]

People seriously need to think twice before they assert such comment. You need to look up the bench marks for yourself regarding photoshop in PC/windows and MAC with the same specs. A lot of Apple fan boy claimed Mac to be faster without thinking. They might be faster in photoshop back in the 90s but not now.

Computer maintainer? What is it that you have to do besides Maybe run a spyware check once a week just to be on a safe side? If you use firefox with ad block plus, flasblock and no script then you shouldn't have to.

I like OS X's interface better, that and the notebook platform's design. Having such a tiny case on a 15" laptop is nice. Even the new unibody 17" is much smaller than my 17" Dell notebook.

The Dell listed will of course have faster hardware, but it's whatever the OP feels like using. I'm personally not a fan of AIO computers, so I wouldn't ever purchase an iMac.

[MaxxuM]

People seriously need to think twice before they assert such comment. You need to look up the bench marks for yourself regarding photoshop in PC/windows and MAC with the same specs. A lot of Apple fan boy claimed Mac to be faster without thinking. They might be faster in photoshop back in the 90s but not now.

Computer maintainer? What is it that you have to do besides Maybe run a spyware check once a week just to be on a safe side? If you use firefox with ad block plus, flasblock and no script then you shouldn't have to.

...while other people seriously need to calmly - and fully - read the comments, then give a polite and well thought-out answers.

Using your logic applied through all other appliances/tools - is your home filled with the fastest appliances and tools? Or is it filled with the appliances and tools that 'you' personally like and fit your style? Do you own a dragster to drive the kids to the park on weekends? It's faster than a minivan or sedan - hands down.

And yes, Windows Vista has more issues, more malware and fewer (%) of people satisfied with it. While Apple has the highest customer appreciation and ranks highest in customer support. OS X is also based on UNIX, an OS typically more relied upon for mission critical data than Windows.

It is good to know that you find Vista (Windows) so friendly and error free but many millions of Windows users do not share your enthusiasm for the OS and they should have a choice what to use (and defend it).

[snakekid]

everything in that price range will perform excellent with almost no difference if your using adobe software.
consider getting something with an eSata port that is what i use and its FAST like you externals are interal almost.

[Titus213]

People seriously need to think twice before they assert such comment. You need to look up the bench marks for yourself regarding photoshop in PC/windows and MAC with the same specs. A lot of Apple fan boy claimed Mac to be faster without thinking. They might be faster in photoshop back in the 90s but not now.

Computer maintainer? What is it that you have to do besides Maybe run a spyware check once a week just to be on a safe side? If you use firefox with ad block plus, flasblock and no script then you shouldn't have to.

Mikez - I made a comment based on personal observation/experience. I think I qualified it quite accurately. I am not an Apple fanboy but you are very obviously a PC fanboy. I will use the system that I deem fits MY needs thank you.

[mikez]

Using your logic applied through all other appliances/tools - is your home filled with the fastest appliances and tools? Or is it filled with the appliances and tools that 'you' personally like and fit your style? Do you own a dragster to drive the kids to the park on weekends? It's faster than a minivan or sedan - hands down.

He's asking opinion about PCs not appliances/tools. I found your vehicles comparison is redundantly lame. Out of the two systems the OP inquiring, the Dell will no doubt demolish the Mac.

Maybe you should recommend by what the OP needs instead.

purely for photo editing of raw and jpeg files from my 5d2 with LR2 and CS4


And yes, Windows Vista has more issues, more malware and fewer (%) of people satisfied with it. While Apple has the highest customer appreciation and ranks highest in customer support. OS X is also based on UNIX, an OS typically more relied upon for mission critical data than Windows.

And what's the percentage of people using windows and OSx?

It is good to know that you find Vista (Windows) so friendly and error free but many millions of Windows users do not share your enthusiasm for the OS and they should have a choice what to use (and defend it)

Read above

I think I qualified it quite accurately. I am not an Apple fanboy but you are very obviously a PC fanboy. I will use the system that I deem fits MY needs thank you.

You are not an apple fanboy?

[MaxxuM]

He's asking opinion about PCs not appliances/tools. I found your vehicles comparison is redundantly lame. Out of the two systems the OP inquiring, the Dell will no doubt demolish the Mac.

Maybe you should recommend by what the OP needs instead.

And what's the percentage of people using windows and OSx?

It is good to know that you find Vista (Windows) so friendly and error free

Read above


Sigh... First, a computer is a 'tool'. Second, you have your right to an opinion - however, my comparison for all intents and purposes is valid. Third, how long would it take for the Dell to open a legitimate Finder window? How about Final Cut Pro or Logic? Forth, mathematically you missed the point.

It would seem there is a big chip on your sholder regarding peoples choice, that power does not equate to satisfaction and that OS X (a UNIX system) is a very capable OS well capable of filling peoples needs without the latest and greatest hardware.

Ciao

Unsubscribed

[petris]

I also thinking for next update pc or should i try mac. Mac has lot of negative things( no docking, connections and so on limitation). It also interest me, but when i install new windows 7, i think i don't need to think mac for option anymore. I don't have has any errors with XP or Vista and it runs 24/7(3Ghz overclocked 2180 intel)

maybe i buy minimac just for fun :D

[Titus213]

...

You are not an apple fanboy?

Mike, I've been a PC guy in the IT world probably since before you were born. I have one Mac in the house and two PCs currently on my network. My desktop system is a PC. I've just made a decision to go to Mac next time I upgrade. Again, it's based on first hand observation/experience with a generation old iMac 20. I find them simple, direct, and sufficient for my needs and if the older Mac will suit my needs then the newer ones will certainly make me happy. I find the MacBook in my wife's studio to be a joy to use. Again, simple, direct, no nonsense. It boots up, does what I want and shuts down. I don't run comparisons, analysis of speed, benchmarks or any other tech stuff. I use it to do what I want to do.

Enjoy your PC. I'll enjoy the Mac.

[mikez]

Third, how long would it take for the Dell to open a legitimate Finder window? How about Final Cut Pro or Logic? Forth, mathematically you missed the point.
Uh... under vista, all you need to do is press "windows" key and you can search freely.
Open applications doesn't take that much time. Mathematically, you missed the point. The processing take more time. What if opening an application takes a second or two more? Rendering what you want to is more important. The OP wants a faster PC for photoshop, what would you recommend between the one that he posted?

A corvette with 300hp or a ford with 150hp?


It would seem there is a big chip on your sholder regarding peoples choice, that power does not equate to satisfaction and that OS X (a UNIX system) is a very capable OS well capable of filling peoples needs without the latest and greatest hardware.
I have no problem if the OP wanted to pick OSX over Windows because that's personal preferences but the fact that people claimed Mac is faster than Windows is just stupid and ignorant.

[Moppie]

just purely for photo editing of raw and jpeg files from my 5d2 with LR2 and CS4. no video editing, no gaming.



Then get the Dell :cool:
The 5D raw files are huge, and the more performance you can throw at them the better.

The Mac will process them, but it will not do it quickly, and it will slow down if you try multi tasking.
It will also have issues applying large filters and working with lots of layers etc.

The Dell will brezze through it with out missing a beat.

[tommykjensen]

I really hate these pc vs mac WARS but

but the fact that people claimed Mac is faster than Windows is just stupid and ignorant.

how is your approach to this different? You really should not call members that have a different opinion than you for stupid.

Some claim Mac is faster, some claim PC is faster.

But so far nobody have provided any facts such as references to benchmark tests that document either statement.

So I suggest everybody calm down and don't call each other stupid or ignorant for having a different opinion.

[Belmondo]

I really hate these pc vs mac WARS but



how is your approach to this different? You really should not call members that have a different opinion than you for stupid.

Some claim Mac is faster, some claim PC is faster.

But so far nobody have provided any facts such as references to benchmark tests that document either statement.

So I suggest everybody calm down and don't call each other stupid or ignorant for having a different opinion.

**Sigh**

So true, Tommy. The first sign that someone CAN'T backup their arguments is when they start calling someone with a differing point of view names like 'stupid,' or 'ignorant.'

Wouldn't it be wonderful if during one of these discussions, people came up with informative, definitive, accurate, and intelligently crafted comparisons of the two platforms? Until they do, I guess we'll have to put up with the name-calling.

I am running Windows XP on an 8-core Mac Pro. No complaints about the hardware, or the Windows OS. That is the schizophrenic world I live in. Actually, I do it so I can sit around and call myself names. I don't even have to get involved in these ridiculous arguments with anyone else. :lol:

[tommykjensen]

I am running Windows XP on an 8-core Mac Pro. No complaints about the hardware, or the Windows OS. That is the schizophrenic world I live in. Actually, I do it so I can sit around and call myself names. I don't even have to get involved in these ridiculous arguments with anyone else. :lol:

:lol:

[CyberDyneSystems]

Tom do you ever get confused about what names to call yourself,. ?

...do you ever accidentally call your Vista using self a VW Bug driving elitist snob?

Do you ever accidentally call your Mac Hardware side a conformist automaton with no imagination?

Just curious :lol:

[tommykjensen]

:lol:

[CyberDyneSystems]

Back on Topic,
I've edited the thread title, no harm done by the OP, but people sometimes come and post there Religious POV based solely on thread titles and ignore the actual question.

The OP linked to two very distinct systems,..
The question in this case is not about PC Vs. Mac,. one would need to go pretty far afield to come to that conclusion, the question is about the two linked systems.


to answer the OPs question,
As others have stated, In this case the Dell is a significantly more powerful system.
The new i7 cpus, RAM and the MOBO architecture will combine to make faster speeds in the programs you intend to use. Use a 64 bit OS and you can stuff up to 24GB of RAM in there and use it all (probably 8-16 GB would be best)
With 16 GB ram you could use 8-12 as system RAM and make a virtual swap drive @ 4GB... sweet.

[Belmondo]

Tom do you ever get confused about what names to call yourself,. ?

...do you ever accidentally call your Vista using self a VW Bug driving elitist snob?

Do you ever accidentally call your Mac Hardware side a conformist automaton with no imagination?

Just curious :lol:

Not sure, Jake. I know elitist fits in there somewhere. :lol:


Back on topic.

[Village_Idiot]

**Sigh**

So true, Tommy. The first sign that someone CAN'T backup their arguments is when they start calling someone with a differing point of view names like 'stupid,' or 'ignorant.'

Wouldn't it be wonderful if during one of these discussions, people came up with informative, definitive, accurate, and intelligently crafted comparisons of the two platforms? Until they do, I guess we'll have to put up with the name-calling.

I am running Windows XP on an 8-core Mac Pro. No complaints about the hardware, or the Windows OS. That is the schizophrenic world I live in. Actually, I do it so I can sit around and call myself names. I don't even have to get involved in these ridiculous arguments with anyone else. :lol:

A quick search didn't turn up any hits for charts. I'll look after I setup a printer.

But it's common sense that a quad core chip with a 1333mhz FSB and more ram will run faster than an older c2d notebook based chip with 1066fsb and less memory.

edit: No to mention a 64 bit OS vs. a 32bit OS.

[jeromego]

i ended up getting the mac yesterday. ive been using pc all my life and thought id try something else. anyway, thanks for all the suggestions. didnt mean to start a debate here was just asking for suggestions..

[Belmondo]

i ended up getting the mac yesterday. ive been using pc all my life and thought id try something else. anyway, thanks for all the suggestions. didnt mean to start a debate here was just asking for suggestions..

Enjoy. I don't think you'll regret the decision.

[Village_Idiot]

Meh. i7 vs. C2D benchmark test are apparently not very popular. That or I suck at searching.

Anyways, there was an article by nVidia that said a faster c2d chip was better for gaming than an i7 chip and that Intel's test saying that the i7 is amazing for gaming was misleading since it was just based on 3Dmark benchmark software and not actually gaming.

/run on sentence
*large breath*

Any ways, that article was a bit misleading in itself as it said that the i7 just improved the fps of Crysis 2 up to 42.something fps and that adding another video card improved it up to 60+ something fps while running on an nvidia mobo with SLI setup.

That in itself sounds like nvidia is just trying to convince people to stick with C2D chips and purchase nvidia mobo's and additional graphics cards since they don't have an i7 chipset yet. General consensus of comments that I read on that article is that an i7 setup with additional cards would be the optimal way to get the most performance.

[MaxxuM]

Meh. i7 vs. C2D benchmark test are apparently not very popular. That or I suck at searching.

Anyways, there was an article by nVidia that said a faster c2d chip was better for gaming than an i7 chip and that Intel's test saying that the i7 is amazing for gaming was misleading since it was just based on 3Dmark benchmark software and not actually gaming.

/run on sentence
*large breath*

Any ways, that article was a bit misleading in itself as it said that the i7 just improved the fps of Crysis 2 up to 42.something fps and that adding another video card improved it up to 60+ something fps while running on an nvidia mobo with SLI setup.

That in itself sounds like nvidia is just trying to convince people to stick with C2D chips and purchase nvidia mobo's and additional graphics cards since they don't have an i7 chipset yet. General consensus of comments that I read on that article is that an i7 setup with additional cards would be the optimal way to get the most performance.

You suck at searching :lol:

If you Google higher end dual cores by name (E8500 for example) you'll probably find more of what you are looking for. Such as "i7 vs E8500". I got all sorts of articals about comparisons and a few benchmarks (like at Guru3d (http://www.guru3d.com/article/intel-core-i7-920-and-965-review/17)).

3D games are GPU limited after you go beyond a certain point pixel wise. If you are a big 3D buff then getting a good video card is a must - CPU is secondary. That said, i7 is the future and if you are upgrading your entire system then just pony up the bucks for i7 to stay future proof.

[Village_Idiot]

You suck at searching :lol:

If you Google higher end dual cores by name (E8500 for example) you'll probably find more of what you are looking for. Such as "i7 vs E8500". I got all sorts of articals about comparisons and a few benchmarks (like at Guru3d (http://www.guru3d.com/article/intel-core-i7-920-and-965-review/17)).

3D games are GPU limited after you go beyond a certain point pixel wise. If you are a big 3D buff then getting a good video card is a must - CPU is secondary. That said, i7 is the future and if you are upgrading your entire system then just pony up the bucks for i7 to stay future proof.

Which is why Apple needs to put out a computer called the Mac. Not pro, not mini, just the Mac. Make it cost the price of an iMac if you will, but put actual desktop parts in it with some zoom performance. Make certain things user upgradable, like all the standard pices and the GPU. They would probably make a lot of money off of something like that.

I really do want a desktop, that's why my next computer is going to be a custom built PC. Price of performance is cheaper that way and I don't have to purchase something with a server grade quad core processor. Fortunately my 30" monitor has inputs for 3 dual link DVI cables. I'll still have a stand off to the side for my MBP.

[MaxxuM]

Which is why Apple needs to put out a computer called the Mac. Not pro, not mini, just the Mac. Make it cost the price of an iMac if you will, but put actual desktop parts in it with some zoom performance. Make certain things user upgradable, like all the standard pices and the GPU. They would probably make a lot of money off of something like that.

I really do want a desktop, that's why my next computer is going to be a custom built PC. Price of performance is cheaper that way and I don't have to purchase something with a server grade quad core processor. Fortunately my 30" monitor has inputs for 3 dual link DVI cables. I'll still have a stand off to the side for my MBP.

Apple already tried that - it failed. Right now no one can complete with them because that is where their focus is. Apple has not tried to become bigger, just better. If they make a "Mac" then they will go head to head with the budget computer companies like Dell and HP. Why would Apple want to make such low sales margins for such a huge distribution model?

Look at it this way - if Apple put out a premium desktop it would likely cost around 10-30% more than a PC. They would have to retool or buy a new manufacturing plant(s) to do so. They would have to cut their margin for profit to compete with HP and Dell which means they would have to sell more computers to make a profit thus they would have to produce far more. The few business classes I took in college all say that it would be unwise (particularly in this market) to take such a big chance. It would cost about a billion to do so (design, preproduction, production, marketing, advertising....). And like I said, Apple tried this once before and it didn't end well (causing Jobs to return).

Think of Apple as being BMW and Dell being Ford - they both put out great products, but why would BMW want to put out a $12,000 car to compete with Ford? Ford on the other hand has the luxury of being able to build 'up' a premium vehicle to compete with BMW in some markets - but Ford will still gain most of its profits in arena's BMW does not compete in.

No, Jobs is pretty smart. He dominates the market where he wants to and expands when the outlook is in favor of Apple.

[Faolan]

BMW did put out a 'cheap' car to stiffen their profits, it's called the One Series and you can pick it up for around £14-16k. So it directly competes with many hatchback/saloon cars from Ford/Vauxhall/Hyundai/etc.

The main problem of Apple cutting prices once they dropped they'll never get the prices back up. This is what happened in the IBM PC arena in the 90s and why it's so cut throat now forcing margins to be raised elsewhere and lots of 'advertising' on OEM PCs when you first run them.

Apple is reeling from the M$ adverts just now on the value front and have lost a lot of mind share of the market (Ref) (http://www.dailytech.com/Microsofts+Ads+Pull+Jedi+Mind+Trick+Convince+Custo mers+to+Turn+Back+on+Apple/article15191.htm). The problem with the premium PCs is that it's a shrinking market and it's become even more of a niche than it was 5 years ago. Entry level PCs and netbooks are more than sufficient for 95% of peoples needs and it's only professionals and advanced hobbyists that need more and to be honest for this market PCs are generally better perceived due to their upgradibility and overclocking...

Apple is only surviving at present because of the iPod and iPhone, they now form much of the profit for the company. That carries on as a halo effect onto laptops and desktops. However finding slaves to fashion is hard when your prices are higher than PCs which are often 1/2 to a full generation (if not more) ahead of Apple. Another area that Mac survives is Gfx design, but as I said here before a lot of print and graphics houses in the UK have shifted from Macs to IBM PCs due to costs and interoperability with servers. Mac OS X and Active Directory have a very shakey relationship...

As to CPU/GPU scaling have a read of this:

HardOCP (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTY0NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)

[MaxxuM]

BMW did put out a 'cheap' car to stiffen their profits, it's called the One Series and you can pick it up for around £14-16k. So it directly competes with many hatchback/saloon cars from Ford/Vauxhall/Hyundai/etc.

BMW 1-Series Coupe 128i (No frills manual drive - base model)
$29,923.00 (Kelly Blue Book New Car)

Ford Focus 2-Door SE Coupe (No frills manual drive - base model)
$16,312.00 (Kelly Blue Book New Car)

vs

Apple Mac Mini (Base Model - No Monitor)
$599 (No options base model - Apple.com)

Dell Inspiron 531 (Base Model - No Monitor)
$249 (No options base model - Dell.com)

Looks like I'm about right. BMW does not really compete with Ford most of the time - but when they do it is Ford that must raise the bar to do so. A $30k Ford will have far more features than a $30k BMW as a $1000 Dell is going to have more features than a $1000 Apple.

[Faolan]

I was referring to the UK Market, hence UKP. A Ford Focus will set you back around £14k in the UK for a mid-range spec, and you can pick up a One Series for about the same with similar spec but that's entry level.

In the UK BMW has forced manufacturers to compete on price and features same with Audi.

The US market is a different kettle o' fish as you've noted with prices.

[kandyredcoi]

this sounds like the Windows commercial where if they pick a PC windows pays for their computer
i woulda said no thanx and still got a MAC, i've had nothing bu nightmares with PC :(

[MaxxuM]

Wow, there is a good amount of price hike with imports in Europe. VAT is a BIG factor I'm sure. The Ford Focus starts at £13,990 and the 115i £16,410 (but that's still spot on because I quoted the 128i which is still over £28k). In the US taxes are pretty low vs Europe where most countries (bordering on socialist/Marxist financial systems) take a good chunk out of imports and almost nothing from exports.

Anyway, I digress. The point is still valid in the US and you got the idea in any case. The perception of PC/Vista advocates is that with Apple you are getting less whereas, Apple enthusiasts affirm there is intrinsic value that cannot be calculated in terms that seem to satisfy PC advocates (e.g. no viruses, better support, better build quality, less time spend updating, less time spend debugging, higher customer satisfaction, UNIX based, next gen file system, unique feel...).

[kini]

i ended up getting the mac yesterday. ive been using pc all my life and thought id try something else. anyway, thanks for all the suggestions. didnt mean to start a debate here was just asking for suggestions..

Definetly a wise choice. I had to return a Dell quad core i7 with 24" monitor becasue Vista 64 sucked so bad.

So I sucked it up and paid about $300 more the base 24" iMac and I don't regret it one bit.

OS X is SOOOOOOO much better. Life is good. I can do what I want, when I want, how I want on OS X. Backup and bootable clones are so easy. I've found all the software I need some free some inexpensive for DVD Ripping and encoding. I can stream movies and music to my Xbox 360 easier than I could with Windows.

I've just downloaded the trial of Aperture. It's great program and highly recommended if you're not already tied to LR. It's half the price. Amazon sells it for $155.

Like the adds say, with Mac everything "just works". I'll never go back to Windows.

Gene