Softball Shooting Advice

[jazzone]

My 10 year old granddaughter plays softball and I've shot several of her games. One of my favorite pitcher shooting locations is behind the home plate backstop through chain link fence. The problem is that my success rate in getting sharp results is quite low. Here's my equipment and camera settings:

Canon 40D with 70-200mm f/2.8L lens
Aperture priority at f/2.8-4 and 200mm
1/500 or faster shutter speed
AI Servo AF (continuous focus) using center focus point

I'm using AI Servo rather than normal One-Shot AF because of the pitcher's movement during the pitch. However, a high percentage of my shots are still blurred and I think it's due to missed focus rather than camera shake or motion blur. Does anyone have experience in this type of shot and if so, what would you recommend?

Here's an example of one of my more successful shots.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3618/3459673300_77a09164a1.jpg

[Sp00ks]

I did this for the first time recently. I was primarily shooting the batters but determined that f/2.8 got me through the fence and good focus on the batter/ball. I used center point only single shot. If I moved, the camera tried to focus on the chain link. I was also using a 5d so the fps was too slow to capture the entire swing or pitch anyway.

http://www.shutterup.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_0393.jpg

[DDCSD]

Welcome to POTN!!!

Mind posting a few examples of the shots that you're not happy with? The good folks here can help you figure out what went wrong.

[jazzone]

Welcome to POTN!!!

Mind posting a few examples of the shots that you're not happy with? The good folks here can help you figure out what went wrong.

Here are a couple of missed shots:

[J.Napier]

Jazz,
Take your ISO up to 400 or so this will allow you to incress your sutter speed and shoot in Manual. Your exif indicates your ISO on these was at 100. 400 gives you more options and it really is unnoticed in the IQ. Are you getting the lens right up to the fence this will help als. You may have to use your fingers to hold it just aginst the chain link.

pacdzyne

[jazzone]

Jazz,
Take your ISO up to 400 or so this will allow you to incress your sutter speed and shoot in Manual. Your exif indicates your ISO on these was at 100. 400 gives you more options and it really is unnoticed in the IQ. Are you getting the lens right up to the fence this will help als. You may have to use your fingers to hold it just aginst the chain link.

pacdzyne

So you're suggesting that the shutter speed for the missed shots was too slow and what we're seeing is subject motion blur and not missed focus? Or a smaller aperture is required to increase the DOF? The first missed shot was at 1/1250 and the second one was at 1/800. The "good" shot was at 1/1000. I've been assuming that anything faster than 1/500 should be good enough. And at f/2.8, 200mm, and 60' I think there should be sufficient DOF.

[DDCSD]

Are those shots cropped at all?

[jazzone]

Are those shots cropped at all?

Yes, but not substantially. Here are the uncropped images:

[jeffscra]

Jazzone.....still.....look at the determination on her face.....still a great capture...of the moment....keep firing!

[jazzone]

Jazzone.....still.....look at the determination on her face.....still a great capture...of the moment....keep firing!

:lol: LOL. Thanks. Yes, my lack of photographer skills in no way reduces how proud I am of my granddaughter. She's a keeper even if some of my shots aren't.

[Sibil]

Hello jazzone;
I am a novice myself; however, to my eyes, the first one appear to be camera shake, and the second one appear to be low shutter speed.

[DDCSD]

I would take the focus off of the shutter button (if you haven't already). This is done through a Cfn. I'm not sure what it is on the 40D, but on my cameras it is Cfn-4.

Then pre-focus just in front of the pitcher's mound. The pitcher doesn't really move that much, so you can pre-focus and you won't have the problem of the AF catching the ball for a second, of the hand or the hitter.

[jazzone]

I would take the focus off of the shutter button (if you haven't already). This is done through a Cfn. I'm not sure what it is on the 40D, but on my cameras it is Cfn-4.

Then pre-focus just in front of the pitcher's mound. The pitcher doesn't really move that much, so you can pre-focus and you won't have the problem of the AF catching the ball for a second, of the hand or the hitter.

Thanks for the suggestion, Derek. The problem I have with pre-focusing is that the windup/delivery happens so quickly that I'm never sure where in that cycle I'm going to catch the pitcher. At 60', f/2.8, and 200mm on a 40D the DOF is less than 3', so there's not much room to play with. That's why I thought that AI Servo would be my best bet.

[JeffreyG]

I would take the focus off of the shutter button (if you haven't already). This is done through a Cfn. I'm not sure what it is on the 40D, but on my cameras it is Cfn-4.

Then pre-focus just in front of the pitcher's mound. The pitcher doesn't really move that much, so you can pre-focus and you won't have the problem of the AF catching the ball for a second, of the hand or the hitter.

With a correct deliver (and I'm surprised to see 10U players delivering this well from what I have seen generally) a softball pitcher does indeed move a lot from rubber to release. I don't think I would be happy with sharpness pre-focussing.

I too shoot the pitchers through the fence, and I wrap my fingers around the hood of the lens and then hold my fingers onto the chain links. This ensures the lens opening is centered in the middle of the chain link diamond opening.

This is what I tend to get. While this shot is sharp, this 9 YO does not have a delivery as good as the previous posters. She has not opened her hips to the batter even though the ball is at the release point. Stuff to work on....

[jazzone]

With a correct deliver (and I'm surprised to see 10U players delivering this well from what I have seen generally) a softball pitcher does indeed move a lot from rubber to release. I don't think I would be happy with sharpness pre-focussing.

I too shoot the pitchers through the fence, and I wrap my fingers around the hood of the lens and then hold my fingers onto the chain links. This ensures the lens opening is centered in the middle of the chain link diamond opening.

This is what I tend to get. While this shot is sharp, this 9 YO does not have a delivery as good as the previous posters. She has not opened her hips to the batter even though the ball is at the release point. Stuff to work on....

Thanks for the input, Jeff. I tend to agree that pre-focusing would be risky. I'm going to try your technique about wrapping your fingers around the hood and bracing your hand against the fence. Great photo and quite sharp.

Thanks for the comments about the pitchers' delivery. The two photos of the girl with the black top is my granddaughter and the one with the purple top is the opposing team's pitcher. My granddaughter turned 10 in April and just finished her 10U regular season plus playoffs winning her league's 10U championship a few weeks ago. She's been selected for her area's 10U All Star team and they completed their first tournament winning the championship with a 6-0-0 record this past weekend. My wife and I will be going to see her play in their second tournament this weekend. Sorry to be waxing on about all this, but it should be clear that I'm a very proud grandfather. :-D

[JeffreyG]

One other tip, as you wrap your hands and get ready to take the shot look at the horizon. Doing to and then gripping the fence will help you avoid those tilted horizons that you are getting too.

[jazzone]

One other tip, as you wrap your hands and get ready to take the shot look at the horizon. Doing to and then gripping the fence will help you avoid those tilted horizons that you are getting too.

Point well taken. I normally pay attention to horizons, verticals, etc. but in this case I was more intent on capturing the subject than anything else. :o

[DDCSD]

Thanks for the suggestion, Derek. The problem I have with pre-focusing is that the windup/delivery happens so quickly that I'm never sure where in that cycle I'm going to catch the pitcher. At 60', f/2.8, and 200mm on a 40D the DOF is less than 3', so there's not much room to play with. That's why I thought that AI Servo would be my best bet.

With a correct deliver (and I'm surprised to see 10U players delivering this well from what I have seen generally) a softball pitcher does indeed move a lot from rubber to release. I don't think I would be happy with sharpness pre-focussing.

I too shoot the pitchers through the fence, and I wrap my fingers around the hood of the lens and then hold my fingers onto the chain links. This ensures the lens opening is centered in the middle of the chain link diamond opening.

This is what I tend to get. While this shot is sharp, this 9 YO does not have a delivery as good as the previous posters. She has not opened her hips to the batter even though the ball is at the release point. Stuff to work on....


Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean that the pitcher doesn't move much, what I meant is that the pitcher will almost always be in about the same place at a given point in the delivery. If you are timing your shots for just after the release, the pitcher should be in an almost identical place every time. Just figure out where that is, pre-focus there and time your shots for when she is within your DOF. To catch different parts of the pitch, time the shots differently and pre-focus in a different spot.

Stop trying to get every shot and concentrate on making the shots that you do get the best they can be. The great thing about pitchers is that you get a ton of opportunities every game. Get a few great shots, forget about coming away with 100 decent ones.

[bnorm27]

I started shooting some pics of my local high school team (my neighbor is the catcher). I had a lot of misses when I started shooting through the fence behind home plate. I did keep the hood on my 70-200mm f2.8, and did keep it on the monopod. Here is one of my faves from the first game. This player has actually gotten a scholarship to play at Rutgers.

http://billnormile.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p916016668-3.jpg

[jazzone]

I tried JeffreyG's tip about bracing the lens hood against the fence by using my thumb and index finger to support the hood and my palm resting against the fence. This great technique stablizes the camera and helps keep the lens centered on a fence opening. My hit rate went WAY up by doing this. Thanks, Jeff!

Here's a shot of my granddaughter in a game Friday night. Since it was a night game, lighting was poor and I had to crank the ISO up to 3200, so the image is a bit noisy. Nevertheless, I'm happy about the results.

70-200mm @ f/2.8 and 200mm, 1/800 second, AI Servo AF

[JeffreyG]

I tried JeffreyG's tip about bracing the lens hood against the fence by using my thumb and index finger to support the hood and my palm resting against the fence. This great technique stablizes the camera and helps keep the lens centered on a fence opening. My hit rate went WAY up by doing this. Thanks, Jeff!

Here's a shot of my granddaughter in a game Friday night. Since it was a night game, lighting was poor and I had to crank the ISO up to 3200, so the image is a bit noisy. Nevertheless, I'm happy about the results.

70-200mm @ f/2.8 and 200mm, 1/800 second, AI Servo AF

That's a really good shot for being under the lights. I actually don't even bother shooting under lights because the hat shadows are usually so deep you cannot even see the eyes.

Congratulations on getting that hit rate up. Keep shooting and you will just get better and better at it.

[DDCSD]

Great shot!

[johndevane]

Take off the lens hood. It's a bit scary at first, but pressing your lens right up to the fence is the answer here. Use your fingers as you have been to protect the lens, just without the hood. The two inches of hood makes a huge difference.

[jazzone]

Take off the lens hood. It's a bit scary at first, but pressing your lens right up to the fence is the answer here. Use your fingers as you have been to protect the lens, just without the hood. The two inches of hood makes a huge difference.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll decline. IMHO, risking a $1200 lens is not worth it. Furthermore, as you can see from the above example, the extra separation caused by the hood is not causing any image interference from the fence. By bracing the front of the hood against the fence with my hand my success rate with about 20 attempts was nearly 100%. :D

[DWM007]

The other way to shoot the pitcher is slightly from the side.

[DWM007]

2 more And I think all of these were with a Nikon 5700 point and shoot and I had to figure in lag time.

[jazzone]

2 more And I think all of these were with a Nikon 5700 point and shoot and I had to figure in lag time.

Your first three were shot using a Kodak LS443 p&s and the last one with a Nikon E5700.

The side shots have been less of a problem for me because I can generally shoot those without a fence in the way and the subject motion is sideways in the focus plane and not moving towards me.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_VVVV1UYOq1k/SbQUmF7gVqI/AAAAAAAACUk/151ZjK-yC5k/s400/IMG_3613.JPG

[bnorm27]

I don't mind taking shots from the side angle (as long as the ptcher is facing you), especially when you don't have a choice! Here are a few shots from this past Tuesday. My local high school, was playing my alma mater in a semi-final playoff game. My brother happens to be the principal of my alma mater, and I played sports with the head softball coach and the athletic director, so getting access was not a problem for me. There were not, however, any openings in the screening material behind home plate to take pictures from. So here are two from the home team bench area:

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc357/bnorm27/kbne1a.jpg

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc357/bnorm27/nekb1d.jpg

And here is one from earlier this year where there was an opening in the screen behind home plate.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc357/bnorm27/nesoftball041709b2.jpg

I'm still trying to get the hang of shooting through the fence though. I agree with the PP, I will not be taking the hood off my lens anytime soon!

[bnorm27]

And this is why you keep the hood on your lens! This foul ball smahed the fence right in front of me. I did see it coming and pulled back just in time. Had I had the hood off, and not seen it coming, I would be afraid to think of what the consequences would have been.


http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc357/bnorm27/neflo2a.jpg

[bigfredtn]

Here is my example of shooting through the fence. On this shot, I was standing about 2 feet behind the fence. Shooting with 40D and sigma 120-300 2.8.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/bigfredtn/sigma/IMG_2010-1.jpg

[bnorm27]

Nice shot Fred!

[phr0ze]

Fred, Nice shot, was that actually 2.8?

Thanks,
John

[DDCSD]

I just wanted to share a little trick I tried this weekend. I was shooting a softball tourney and three of the diamonds were pretty new and had an incredibly shiny fence. I avoided them on day one, and on Sunday I brought along some cinefoil (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/44690-REG/Rosco_RS100113_Matte_Black_Cinefoil_.html) to wrap around the fence. It will wrap pretty tightly and gets rid of the glare. Worked pretty well.

[DDCSD]

Yes, but not substantially. Here are the uncropped images:

I just wanted to note that I think these are a result of the fence being in the way, and not missed focus. Notice on the second shot her legs are fairly sharp.

If you zoom out to 70mm, you'll be able to see the fence, then go to 200mm while keeping the opening in the fence in the middle.