Manual Mode MAJOR HELP NEEDED

[atmianzo]

ok from what i understand, manual is the standard and your retarded if you dont use it. well.... i dont use it and i seem to get good results, check them out http://atmianzo.weebly.com/macro.html, usually i want to control aperture so i use that mode but i cant seem to get a good picture if i use the manual mode. my question that im getting to is... is there any major reason to switch to manual mode. and do you have any tips on how i can equally ballance between apture and exposure time

[JeffreyG]

There are often many misperceptions about M mode, but the most common amongst newbies is that one uses M mode by watching the little needle in the viewfinder and keeping it centered. This is in fact nothing more than using Av/Tv mode with the human operator inserted in the loop.

Here is the real deal on M mode. Most of the situations you will shoot will involve taking a long string of photos in one place with one common light level. If you let the camera meter guess at every shot you will get fluctuating exposures that will require time to correct in post processing.

So the better method is to put the camera in M mode and choose one of several methods to get the correct exposure up front. After that you can shoot the whole string of photos knowing that the exposure will be right from start to finish.

So what are these methods?
1) Use an incident light meter to correctly measure the actual light falling on the scene.
2) Spot meter certain known tones in the scene and base the exposure on some version of the zone system.
3) Center the needle, take a shot and chimp the histogram. Adjust till the exposure is perfect and then leave it alone.

[katodog]

manual is the standard and your retarded if you don't use it



First of all, don't use the word "retarded" it's disrespectful to handicapped people, and I don't like it. Second, the only stupidity in photography is people who listen to the "rules". Photography is something that comes from you, not from a set of rules. If you want to have a unique approach and a unique eye, do what works for you. If you're happy doing what the other lemmings do, well, hats off to you, have fun.


As for the rules; True photography is art, and there are no rules to art. People can take the rules and stuff them up the cat's ass.

[egordon99]

At the end of the day, an exposure solely consists of shutter speed, f-stop, and ISO...Whether you get to that particular combination via M mode or Av mode or P mode doesn't make a difference after the shot is taken....

[SkipD]

... is there any major reason to switch to manual mode.The primary reason that I use the manual exposure mode on my cameras is so that I have total control of my exposures instead of letting the programming in the camera make the choices for me.

As mentioned above, if one is shooting a variety of subjects (different colors or reflective qualities) but with all subjects in the same light, the camera will choose a variety of exposures when in reality one exposure setting would be far better for the series of images. Think of a series of race cars coming around the same curve or a wedding party with the various subjects wearing black tuxes, a white dress, and everything in between.

I frequently use my handheld meter (in incident mode) to measure the light falling on the subject in order to make my decisions. The camera cannot do this without using a standard gray card, and that is inconvenient at best.

[SOK]

ok from what i understand, manual is the standard and your retarded if you dont use it. well.... i dont use it and i seem to get good results...is there any major reason to switch to manual mode. and do you have any tips on how i can equally ballance between apture and exposure time

If you're happy with what you're achieving and have no wish to switch to M mode...then no, there is no problem.

However, if you have to ask what the difference is, then I'd suggest you still have plenty to learn and would most likely benefit from doing so. Understanding M mode can take as little as 5 minutes if you find the right material to learn from. Ben's Newbie Guide (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=414088) might be all you need?

First of all, don't use the word "retarded" it's disrespectful to handicapped people, and I don't like it.

...

As for the rules; True photography is art, and there are no rules to art. People can take the rules and stuff them up the cat's ass.

Interesting outlook. On one hand you're rightly criticizing the use of a word used in a derogatory context...and then you go and make an outrageous statement that dilutes any credibility one might have given you.

Ignoring the fundamentals of how your camera ticks isn't art.

Hate to break it to you; but there are a whole suite of physical laws (or 'rules') that govern every last step in photography; be it film or digital. If you chose to ignore that, and plead that 'true photography is art', I'd suggest you and the OP need to do a similar amount of reading.

Art depends on the way you set and point your camera.

[Greg_C]

You will usually find the camera tends towards slower shutter speeds when shooting macro shots in AV mode. If you have the Aperture set to something like F8 or F11 your shutter speed is likely to be slow unless you are in bright bright light. You can counter this a little by bumping the ISO up but only so far before it starts to impact on your image.

You do get a lot more control in full manual mode. You are choosing the Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO and balancing these. The other thing to add in here is the Flash, usually set to a negative Flash Exposure Compensation (FEC), something like -2/3. Look at you exposure meter in the camera, it will guide you towards the correct exposure. Set your Aperture first then ISO, now while looking at the exposure meter adjust your shutter speed to get a good exposure. Don't be afraid to go back and tweak the Aperture or ISO if the shutter speed looks to low. One way to think about it is Aperture is controlling your detail and Depth of Field, Shutter Speed the camera shake, ISO the overall sensitivity. <--- that's a HUGE generalisation, they all effect each other and the final image.

PS your are not retarded for using AV, what ever works for you.

[katodog]

No, sadly, art is not a matter of physics and fact, it's a product of imagination and heart. Fundamentals are one thing, having everybody conform to one path is another. God wouldn't have invented Auto if there was supposed to be a set rule to follow.

[jra]

No, sadly, art is not a matter of physics and fact, it's a product of imagination and heart. Fundamentals are one thing, having everybody conform to one path is another. God wouldn't have invented Auto if there was supposed to be a set rule to follow.

Yes but getting a correct exposure and controling aperture and shutter speeds to get desired results is a matter of understanding the physics behind the art.

[John_B]

ok from what i understand, manual is the standard and your retarded if you dont use it. well....
atmianzo,
You really shouldn't call yourself retarded!

A major reason for Manual mode is to use a flash as the main light source instead of just fill in (its just fill in when camera is in Av mode).
Another reason is for faster shutter speeds with flash, you can set the shutter at 1/250th (or even faster with high speed sync flashes) then set your aperture (ex. f/8 is a good start) and the flash will try to provide enough light to light up your subject. The flash power can be made weaker or stronger with the camera FEC settings.

You can with some external flashes set the flash on Manual and set the power you want the flash at. With the camera on M it gives you full 100% control over the light and exposure of the subject.

[Roy Mathers]

ok from what i understand, manual is the standard and your retarded if you dont use it.

An enormous and erroneous generalisation (and an unfortunate choice of words).

[rabidcow]

atmianzo,

You will find yourself in a better place when you do NOT listen to the opinions of others in this forum. Listen to the facts, and sort out your own opinions.

Manual is NOT the standard, (neither is RAW for that matter) but rather it is a tool in our toolbox.

I shoot manual in studio, I shoot manual when using a speedlight, especially when I want to have exclusive control over my background lighting. I shoot manual when I want to and when I need to.

I am in love with Av, it allows me to focus on composition and AF selection, but that is my OPINION and should be ignored until you nave your own opinion based on your own experience.

[katodog]

I understand your point completely, but the question asked by the OP was about the rules of what to do, not the actual how to do it. Using lines like, "ok from what I understand, manual is the standard and your retarded if you don't use it.." says to me that they're wondering why to use manual, not how to use it, even if it's what everyone says to use.

Manual is not a standard as far as I'm concerned, it's an option. Just like everything else, it's choice. You can't play follow the leader in photography, it doesn't work like that. Sure, there's a basic set of rules that apply, like actual exposure and aperture settings for certain lighting situations, or ISO settings for certain conditions. But, to start off by saying everyone is retarded for not using manual says to me that the OP believes he should follow what everyone else does, and not use what works for him.

That's the main part of his question that I was basing my reply on.



The rest of his question leans away from that and more towards the actual rhyme and reason of using certain settings for certain things. I don't have any comment for that because I use the same settings as everyone else does, I'm no different from anybody else. However, I don't use ABC for subject D because Joe Schmoe and 6000 other people said so. I use what works. Sometimes it's the "norm" and sometimes it isn't.

Shaking the ugly stick at everyone and claiming we're deficient for not using manual, well, that's just plain silly. And if I played follow the leader like everyone else, I'd probably not be into photography. I do it because it makes me happy, and I get to make others happy (sometimes) by showing my photos. Otherwise, it's a pointless endeavor.

I do it for the heart and soul of it, not the time and toll of it. When it comes time for me to do it because somebody told me to, it's time to put the gear away and hide in the closet. And sticking the rules up the cat's butt, well, I stick by that one.

[katodog]

An enormous and erroneous generalisation (and an unfortunate choice of words).



I would have avoided a lot of trouble and a lot of typing if I had said it like that. Well done.

[Roy Mathers]

Thank you katodog.

[LordV]

Agree with above, I use manual when shooting full flash but Av or Tv modes for natural light shots (often with fill flash).

Brian V.

[20droger]

An enormous and erroneous generalisation (and an unfortunate choice of words).
I would have avoided a lot of trouble and a lot of typing if I had said it like that. Well done.
And, you wouldn't have insulted us ailurophiles, who are legion.

Unfortunately, you are both right and wrong.

You are right because, in any artistic endeavor, there are those individuals who seem to be able to bypass all the normal rules and yet excel at their craft. For them, rules are worthless wastes of effort.

You are wrong because, for the rest of the world, a basic grasp of the fundamentals is essential to releasing one's full potential. In photography, learning to expose and compose properly are fundamental. Using full manual is one of the tools to this end.

Using full manual (M), however, does not mean that full manual is in any way superior to using shutter priority (Tv), or aperture priority (Av), or even program AE (P). It is just the mode in which all aspects of exposure are up to the photographer, not the camera.

Using the full auto (green box) mode also has it's place. Sometimes, all you need (or want) is a P&S. Full auto give you this.

Yes, photography is an art, but it is also a craft. No, art is not immune to rules. There are rules in every branch of art. One cannot become a successful writer without a grasp of the concepts behind grammar, either intuitive or learned.

One should always bear in mind that for every Grandma Moses, there are a myriad of Starving Artists. And there are good reasons why they are starving.

[Roy Mathers]

Unfortunately, you are both right and wrong.

.


Are you saying that it wasn't "An enormous and erroneous generalisation (and an unfortunate choice of words)"?

[Gilthanass]

Yes, photography is an art, but it is also a craft. No, art is not immune to rules. There are rules in every branch of art. One cannot become a successful writer without a grasp of the concepts behind grammar, either intuitive or learned.



Very true, and something that I find more and more "artists" vocally ignoring that. Yes, the greatest writers will sometimes ignore conventional grammar rules; but they do so purposefully, not because they don't understand the rules. You cannot break the rules until you understand them intimately, or you won't be creating art, you'll be creating just another poorly written piece in the junk heap of the masses. Same goes for musicians, they will disobey rules of music, but for effect, not out of ignorance. Same for painters, actors, etc. I'm sick of people who fancy themselves brilliant artists being completely ignorant of the structures they should be experts on, and hiding behind "but look at what shakespeare did" as an excuse.

[rabidcow]

Manual is not a standard as far as I'm concerned, it's an option. Just like everything else, it's choice. You can't play follow the leader in photography, it doesn't work like that.

Shaking the ugly stick at everyone and claiming we're deficient for not using manual, well, that's just plain silly.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

Better verbiage than mine, same ending.

[SOK]

Manual is not a standard as far as I'm concerned, it's an option. Just like everything else, it's choice.

Agreed.

You can't play follow the leader in photography, it doesn't work like that. Sure, there's a basic set of rules that apply, like actual exposure and aperture settings for certain lighting situations, or ISO settings for certain conditions. But, to start off by saying everyone is retarded for not using manual says to me that the OP believes he should follow what everyone else does, and not use what works for him.

This is where I disagree. The OP posed his question in a way that implies he doesn't understand what difference it makes...and that he doesn't understand "the basic set of rules that apply". I reckon he (and anyone who doesn't "get" M mode) would benefit from learning what it's about, and how it is rooted in the concept of exposure and thus fundamentally identical to all the other modes. Understanding this empowers you and broadens your options of artistic expression, it doesn't mean you're blindly "following the leader".

Shaking the ugly stick at everyone and claiming we're deficient for not using manual, well, that's just plain silly.

I don't think anyone here has advocated the OP abandon what he's doing, start using M, and be done with it.

What I'm saying is, he's do well to learn about it, how it's different to what he's currently doing, and then he'll have the knowledge to make his own decisions. I originally missed this when I started this post, but glad I spotted it later. Gilthanass sums up my point of view perfectly;

Yes, the greatest writers will sometimes ignore conventional grammar rules; but they do so purposefully, not because they don't understand the rules. You cannot break the rules until you understand them intimately, or you won't be creating art, you'll be creating just another poorly written piece in the junk heap of the masses. Same goes for musicians, they will disobey rules of music, but for effect, not out of ignorance... I'm sick of people who fancy themselves brilliant artists being completely ignorant of the structures they should be experts on, and hiding behind "but look at what shakespear did" as an excuse.

Sure, there's a basic set of rules that apply, like actual exposure and aperture settings for certain lighting situations, or ISO settings for certain conditions.

And sticking the rules up the cat's butt, well, I stick by that one.

I'm afraid I can't offer a counter-point on this, because I'm not sure what you're even arguing here. Are you?

God wouldn't have invented Auto if there was supposed to be a set rule to follow.

As for this...I'm not touching it with a 20 foot pole!

[dmayesjr]

I've probably shot 6,000+ shots with a mode other than Manual. I don't know a situation where I wouldn't use manual now, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with the preset modes. Manual is not a gauge of talent, nor is it a requirement to shoot great pictures. It's just a way to have more control when you feel you need it.

Honestly, until I got my 40D, I never used manual. It was always kind of tedious for me to change settings without the magic dial that the 40D has. I almost always ran my XT with a mode. I took plenty of great pictures I'll always stand behind with that camera and those special settings.

[katodog]

How about a 35 foot pole? I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, I was just trying to explain based on my interpretation of the original question that Manual mode isn't the end-all of photography, and we should just stick with what works. Sure, learning every little detail about every little thing would be perfect, but how many of us want to do that, and how many of us have done that? I am normally on P, and it works for most shooting situations I'm in. I use AV, TV, and Manual when I need more control instead of letting the camera decide for me, but that's not because everyone tells me to, it's because I know how to work a camera.

I compare it to using manual focus or auto focus. Most of the time , you use auto focus because it works. Sometimes you need to manual focus, so you do. It's just another way to do things, it's not set in stone that you have to use one or the other.

The OP made it sound like he had the idea that everyone should use manual because others say to, and not to would be wrong. Maybe I misinterpreted the question. Sure, my advice would be to learn as much as you can about your camera, but in the end I would say to use what works the best for you, not what works best for everyone else.

[20droger]

Are you saying that it wasn't "An enormous and erroneous generalisation (and an unfortunate choice of words)"?
"You" was singular, and "both" was synonymous with "simultaneously."