So I got a Photo Pass to shoot my favorite band

[CosmoKid]

So yeah, besides The Beatles, Blues Traveler is probably one of my all time favorite bands. I know they are on the downside of their peak but over the years I have seen them around 40 times. I happened to get introduced (via email) to their manager about 8 years ago. Since I was planning on going to their show in a couple of weeks I figured I would reach out to her and ask about a photo pass.

Well, she remembered me and told me she will leave a pass at the door for me.

I am both excited and a little nervous. The only other time I have had a pass was when I was backstage with the opening band (Soulive) for a Dave Matthews show and when they saw my camera handed me a photo pass and told me to take pictures. I was using a Minolta Maxxim 400 or something like that, on AUTO - HAHA.


I haven't gotten word yet about the rules other than I can shoot the entire time and can't go on-stage.

Anything I should know?
How is my equipment/lenses?
Should I try and rent anything to get me some better shots?
Do I bring my tri-pod or a monopod?

[gjl711]

Can't offer assistance, but how cool. I would love to have an opportunity like that.

[johnstoy]

We get requests about this all the time... Here goes... You'll want to shoot without flash when possible... that way you'll be able to shoot a lot of pics, and have a wider selection to choose the better ones from...

(fill flash works, but requires discretion, and limits the frequency of actual shots... often missing opportune captures, while the flash reloads)...

Next is the ISO... It basically averages out to be an ISO of around 1600...

Than you'll need to be at an aperture of around f/2.8... Though IS will help, it's better to have lenses at f/2.8 of faster...

Wide lenses are good up close... while the 70-200mm works great from about 20 feet away...

Tripods are usable from way back... up close, you and the patrons will be tripping over it, and security might object to you bringing it in and setting it up.

You notice that I mentioned *flash*... That's cause your lenses are relatively slow for indoor, low light, stage action....

An f/1.4 prime is great, while an f/2.8 zoom with IS is great too.

Lastly, this posted thread will probably me moved to the discussion section, look for it there too.

[interpretiv]

in the past i have done frequent work like this, best lens canon makes for arena rock type environments (where you are at distances of 15-30 feet from subject) is the 135 f/2. for smaller venues/closer photo ops I also use the 85 f/1.2 and 50 f/1.2, both of which suck up huge amounts of light and give you unbelievable low light shooting abilities. given film speed of 1600-3200, lenses like that leave you shooting at shutter speeds of 1/100 or faster in concert environments...which is a good situation to be in :-) no matter what exact lens you end up using, primes are your best option.

i would suggest you scrape some coin and rent one or two of the lenses i mentioned for your trip, the photos would be incredible! if it's your favorite band, it will be worth it to take good gear with you.

good luck! :-)

[johnstoy]

In recent years we've had discussions regarding the great f/1.2 lenses and there have been mixed reviews when applied to concert applications... Even some regulars who own 'em actually resort to other lenses for versatility and speed.

Personally, I have both the 50mm and 85mm f/1.2's on my wish list, but primarily for portrait and wedding work and even nature... They have been on my wish list even before I got my first DSLR... and I still didn't get one.

I'd have to say, that my 70-200mmm f/2.8IS is most practical, while the 24-70 is great for everything except real low light situations, because it doesn't have IS... Therefore the 17-55 f/2.8IS would also be my choice, and is also on my wish list...

The Canon 50mm f/1.4 was the most practical because of it's price and speed and sharpness... The 85mm f/1.8 is second in line...

So, in a perfect world, I would love to entertain the idea of doing shows with the f/1.2's but some consider them to be relatively slow focusing, and while the bokeh is awesome, the sharpness isn't that much greater than the f/1.4 or the 85mm f/1.8, to warrant spending an additional $1,000 to $1,500 dollars more.

[CosmoKid]

Thanks for all of your feedback...
So let me see if I have figured this out....

My 50mm 1.8 won't work too well and I should be using a 50mm 1.4
My 70-200 F/4 L IS is too slow but the 2.8 would work well.
My Tamron is 2.8 but no IS.
I feel like I am just off in all of my lens choices!

I could go out and buy an 85mm 1.8 today. Is there enough of a difference between that and the 50mm 1.8? Is it just slightly longer reach? I know the 85mm 1.8 gets great reviews on it's sharpness but is having those 2 lenses in my bag redundant? B&H has the 1.8 for $379 and a used version for $299. The 135mm at 1k is just too expensive for me to run out and buy right now.

Are my only rental choices local stores?

I have never had to shoot above 1600 ISO on my 40d. I assume I can but I think it is a menu tweak.

[CosmoKid]

I just spoke with my friend who is a photographer. He offered me his 1Ds Mark II so I can have 2 bodies with me. He also offered me his 70-200 F/2.8 non-IS lens and basically anything he has that I would want. Most of his primes are short focal lengths (<=50mm).

Would I be better off with the 70-200 F4 IS or the 2.8 non-IS?

Having a crop and a full frame camera should also allow me to play with some focal lengths a bit more.

[CosmoKid]

And John, I live in NJ but spent many summers at my parents house in the Poconos. They still live in the Hawley/Lords Valley area.

[narlus]

the 85 focuses much faster than the 50 f/1.8 and is an excellent lens.

i'd always go w/ a faster lens over IS on a slower lens.

having a crop and full-frame is not a bad combo at all.

[interpretiv]

In recent years we've had discussions regarding the great f/1.2 lenses and there have been mixed reviews when applied to concert applications... Even some regulars who own 'em actually resort to other lenses for versatility and speed.

Personally, I have both the 50mm and 85mm f/1.2's on my wish list, but primarily for portrait and wedding work and even nature... They have been on my wish list even before I got my first DSLR... and I still didn't get one.

...

So, in a perfect world, I would love to entertain the idea of doing shows with the f/1.2's but some consider them to be relatively slow focusing, and while the bokeh is awesome, the sharpness isn't that much greater than the f/1.4 or the 85mm f/1.8, to warrant spending an additional $1,000 to $1,500 dollars more.

i have a bit of a disagreement with you there. I own both the 1.2 lenses, and also considered selling them for the 1.4s to save some cash. I rented the 1.4s, and while they are great lenses they lack the huge light gathering capacity of the 1.2 lenses. The sharpness isn't much of an issue, it has a lot more to do with color quality and saturation. the 1.2 lenses dominate the field there, and while the focus on the 85 can sometimes be slow in low light, i haven't had one serious issue with it after hundreds of performances in dimly lit jazz clubs. the speed of the lens is fantastic for music performance.

I also have the 70-200 2.8 IS, which i agree is a great lens and should definitely be taken along. and i realize everyone isn't capable of throwing down the coin for lenses like the 1.2s, and i certainly couldn't if i weren't using them for work. but...you get what you pay for, and the images made with 1.2 glass look markedly better--especially printed on nice paper--than images from the 1.4. if they didn't, my camera bag would've been way lighter (and my wallet fatter) for a while now ;-)

no one's telling you to go out and buy this gear. but a one week rental is fairly cheap, and the photos would look killer. for online lens rentals check sites like lensrentals.com, ziplens, or rentglass.com. i think you'll be surprised about the rates.

[CosmoKid]

So I called B&H to ask about the 85mm 1.8 they had for sale USED and they sold out of it this morning. I asked about renting a 1.2 for next week and he asked me what I would be using it for. I told him I was going to shoot a concert indoors at Bergen PAC and he said the 1.2 was overkill. He also said that I would need to practice with the 1.2 and get the hang of using it. His recommendation was to rent a 1.8.

So I bought a new 85mm 1.8. LOL.

My plan is to use the 85mm on the 40d and alternate one of my friend's wide primes as well as either his 70-200 F2.8 NON IS or my 70-200 F4 IS on his 1d body. At 16mp, I can crop a short focal length prime if I need to better than I could on my 40d at 10mp.

[narlus]

I rented the 1.4s, and while they are great lenses they lack the huge light gathering capacity of the 1.2 lenses.

i can't imagine that a third of a stop is such a big difference. shooting @ that thin a DoF is tricky as well.

[CosmoKid]

Do you guys think I am betetr off with the 70-200 non-IS F2.8 or the 70-200 IS F4?

[DDCSD]

Do you guys think I am betetr off with the 70-200 non-IS F2.8 or the 70-200 IS F4?

f/2.8 every time for concerts.

That's awesome, I'd love to see Blues Traveler and love even more to shoot them. Congrats.


I'd use the 70-200 and 17-50 and have the 85 1.8 with in case the light just isn't there. Bring the 10-20 for some stage shots.

[johnstoy]

i have a bit of a disagreement with you there. I own both the 1.2 lenses, and also considered selling them for the 1.4s to save some cash. I rented the 1.4s, and while they are great lenses they lack the huge light gathering capacity of the 1.2 lenses. The sharpness isn't much of an issue, it has a lot more to do with color quality and saturation. the 1.2 lenses dominate the field there, and while the focus on the 85 can sometimes be slow in low light, i haven't had one serious issue with it after hundreds of performances in dimly lit jazz clubs. the speed of the lens is fantastic for music performance.

I also have the 70-200 2.8 IS, which i agree is a great lens and should definitely be taken along. and i realize everyone isn't capable of throwing down the coin for lenses like the 1.2s, and i certainly couldn't if i weren't using them for work. but...you get what you pay for, and the images made with 1.2 glass look markedly better--especially printed on nice paper--than images from the 1.4. if they didn't, my camera bag would've been way lighter (and my wallet fatter) for a while now ;-)

no one's telling you to go out and buy this gear. but a one week rental is fairly cheap, and the photos would look killer. for online lens rentals check sites like lensrentals.com, ziplens, or rentglass.com. i think you'll be surprised about the rates.

We're cool... I don't disagree with you on any of this... I originally set out to start my DSLR gear collection with the f/1.2's as the primary lenses comprising my set... It just didn't materialize yet...

Several years ago, I was at a Little River Band concert with my Canon SLR 35mm film camera, and I ran into one of our forum Moderators there (PacAce)... He had just finished shooting a wedding, and was staying to take some shots of the band, for the band... We talked briefly and I told PacAce that I was looking to get an DSLR and wished to get f/1.2 lenses...

(I used a 50mm f/1.2 Nikon lens on the job with the Pennsylvania Park Service, back in the early 1970's... Like you say, the light it allows in, is awesome...)

I told PacAce, that I heard of a 85mm f1.2 for around 1,400... He said, that was the old version of the lens... Just about at that time, Canon was coming out with the 2nd, and newest version of the f/1.2 85mm lens, and it cost close to 2K... PacAce mentioned the newest version of the lens as being a great one to have... and after that conversation I went on to purchase my first DSLR...

But digital photography being new to me, I hesitated and bought some lesser lenses, including the 28-135IS... etc.... Bottom line is that, I'm retired, and have to budget purchases...

Since then, I've been telling others on this forum to *save, save, save, and buy once*, when it comes to lenses...

So thanks for the encouragement, and enlightenment about the f/1.2's... I'll get there eventually....

I did live in the French Quarter, (New Orleans), while on a resort job assignment back in 1983... wish I had a good camera with me then.

Next month I'm showing some photos at an art show... If I sell some, I might just start investing in the f/1.2's.

[FatNakedGuy]

Ahhhh too bad you already purchased a lens. Here is an excellent place to rent killer equipment for cheap..

http://borrowlens.com

I've shot BT and they were very nice folks. Brendan asked to use one of my images for a Ziljian promotion even.

Have fun and take LOTS of photos! Also, wear all black clothing if you can... helps to get you closer (or up on stage) without pulling focus from the band.


Rick
http://rickweller.com/music

[johnstoy]

And John, I live in NJ but spent many summers at my parents house in the Poconos. They still live in the Hawley/Lords Valley area.

You mean they live at the the Hemlock Farms Development? I knew and worked with some prominent resort executives (Playboy Resort Clubs), originally from Hemlock Farms... That was back in the mid 1970's - late 80's.

[CosmoKid]

Ahhhh too bad you already purchased a lens. Here is an excellent place to rent killer equipment for cheap..

http://borrowlens.com

I've shot BT and they were very nice folks. Brendan asked to use one of my images for a Ziljian promotion even.

Have fun and take LOTS of photos! Also, wear all black clothing if you can... helps to get you closer (or up on stage) without pulling focus from the band.


Rick
http://rickweller.com/music

That lens was on my wish list anyway and it was just a matter of time before I bought it. I look at this as an excuse to buy it.


You mean they live at the the Hemlock Farms Development? I knew and worked with some prominent resort executives (Playboy Resort Clubs), originally from Hemlock Farms... That was back in the mid 1970's - late 80's.

Wow. All is said was 2 towns and you figured that out. Yes, they bought their house in Hemlock in 1985 when I was 12. I spent every summer there until I was 18. Riding banana boats on Walenpaupack, driving 45 minutes to the movies in Stroudsburg and hitting the Ponderosa after. Sneaking in to Floods bar before I was 21, and riding go-carts in Route 6 in Hawley.

My parents are now there half the year (and the other half in Florida).



As for the show, someone mentioned to me that I should pick a white balance and stick with it throughout the show. He said it would make it easier to fix in post since leaving it on auto would mess with the camera the whole time.

My plan right now is to use my 40d with the 85mm 1.8 and my friends 1Ds MKII with either a 28mm 1.4 or 35mm 1.4. I will have my other lenses in case I have some time to switch them out. I am also bringing the 70-200mm 2.8.

[DDCSD]

I use tungsten WB. Very consistent results that are usually true to what I see with my own eyes at the show. I then adjust from there if I didn't like what reality gave me. ;)

[CosmoKid]

So, I went to my friend's house to pick up some of his equipment last night. He had a bag waiting for me that included the following:

1Ds MKII
24-70 F/2.8 L
70-200 F/2.8L NON-IS
28mm 1.8
50mm 1.4

So all I have from my bag is:
40d
85mm 1.8

I left the Tamron 17-50mm 2.8 at home.

My plan is to start off with the 85mm on my 40d and either the 50 or 28mm on the full frame.

[DDCSD]

Wow, I need friends like that!

[johnstoy]

I covered the entire stage width, (shooting from stage side, clear across to the other side) of a 50 foot wide stage, often, using the 85mm on a 30D... The 50mm 1.4, of a FF body would be reasonably wide from up close for taking pics of two or three musicians... Both, the 50mm 1.4 and the 85mm 1.8, crop well too...

The 28mm 1.8 was wide enough on the 30D to get 5 people into the picture from stage front...

You'll be fairly well covered for low light situations at ISO 1600, with those primes... Though the 24-70 f/2.8 is a great lens, it will be borderline sufficient in low light...

Good luck with the event... post the results here...

(PS: I'm retired from the resort real estate industry... that's how I know your area...)

[CosmoKid]

As for the show:
Bergen PAC was pretty strict about where I could shoot from. Only the sides in front of the stage. And only the first 3 songs from that area. And no crossing in front to move sides. You had to walk around the back of the venue.

Boy did time seem to FLY by.

I had to work with the angles they gave me. It was tough to isolate people on stage since I had to work with the location. And it was hard to get shots without mic stands blocking people. I basically used the 70-200 on the 40d for most of my shots. I had the 28mm on the 1d for a few shots of the whole stage.

John Popper, the lead singer, wears a fedora which caused his face shots to be somewhat tricky. The bass player was also wearing a baseball cap. Chandler, the guitarist, is very animated which made for some great shots, but also was a bit of a challenge to frame him properly. And the backdrop was black as well, which doesn't help when the lead singer is wearing a black hat.

After the 3 songs they allowed me to shoot from my seat which was in row 13. So again, the 70-200 did most of the work.

All in all in was a GREAT experience for me. I have even more respect for concert photographers now. Every time I shoot something new I learn something.

[DDCSD]

Yeah, its not as easy as it looks. Hats suck, especially indoors.

[CosmoKid]

Finally put some up..

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=726168