Help with off camera flash

[uracowman]

I am in the market for an off camera flash system. From what I have read online, I would need the following but correct me if I am wrong. Either:

-Canon 430 or 580 ex flash
-Pocket Wizards remote system
-Flash stands

OR
-Alien bee flash system
-remote system

I heard the alien bee system is alot more powerful, but is not as flexible because you cannot store it as easily as the canon/pocket wizards setup. Also, another perk with using the canon flash/pocket wizards system is that the flashes can be used interchangeably between the stand, or they could be put on the camera to be used.

Does this all sound correct? Which would be better for me? I shoot primarily automotive and a bit of portrait. I was leaning more toward the flash/pocket wizards system but wanted to hear what you guys had to say.

[shutterfiend]

It depends on your needs. Do you shoot on location a lot? Would you be shooting outdoors in bright daylight? Would you be metering yourself or using E-TTL?

Many members here have a combination which allow them the flexibility of both systems. And last but certainly not the least, what's you budget?

[uracowman]

It depends on your needs. Do you shoot on location a lot? Would you be shooting outdoors in bright daylight? Would you be metering yourself or using E-TTL?

Many members here have a combination which allow them the flexibility of both systems. And last but certainly not the least, what's you budget?

I shoot mainly outside. As far as bright daylight, I try to keep that to a minimum but I will work with what I am given. As far as budget, I have no idea yet. I don't know what each choice listed above will run me because I am not sure if I listed everything I need.

[gonzogolf]

Dont restrict your trigger choices to pocket wizards. If you arent set on ETTL you can save some cash by going with cybersyncs, or skyports, or even the cactus triggers. Pocket Wizards are great but just remember thats not the only trigger. If you do want to retain ettl you have poppers or the new PW's to consider too.

[uracowman]

Dont restrict your trigger choices to pocket wizards. If you arent set on ETTL you can save some cash by going with cybersyncs, or skyports, or even the cactus triggers. Pocket Wizards are great but just remember thats not the only trigger. If you do want to retain ettl you have poppers or the new PW's to consider too.

Could you tell what all I would need to buy if I decided to go with the canon flash setup?

[Tomi Hawk]

Could you tell what all I would need to buy if I decided to go with the canon flash setup?
As stated above, don't only resrict yourself to Canon's line of flashes either .. ;)
Not to confuse you, but many other, and if budget does become an issue after research,
and if ETTL isn't important (I don't use it) but there are many great options.

I'm also reading up on PW myself, but have learned that there are just as many other options.
This site's *search* function is bar-none top-notch !!! :)
I am going wireless with my Metz flashes, I'm just not sure exactly how I'm gonna arrive.
But the more I read here at POTN, the closer I get .. :mrgreen:

I was surprised at what a set of Manfrotto stands cost today! :shock:

[uracowman]

Why does ettl matter? Isn't ettl just where the camera determines what the flash speed is? As stated above, don't only resrict yourself to Canon's line of flashes either .. ;)
Not to confuse you, but many other, and if budget does become an issue after research,
and if ETTL isn't important (I don't use it) but there are many great options.

I'm also reading up on PW myself, but have learned that there are just as many other options.
This site's *search* function is bar-none top-notch !!! :)
I am going wireless with my Metz flashes, I'm just not sure exactly how I'm gonna arrive.
But the more I read here at POTN, the closer I get .. :mrgreen:

I was surprised at what a set of Manfrotto stands cost today! :shock:

[gonzogolf]

Why does ettl matter? Isn't ettl just where the camera determines what the flash speed is?

Ettl has some additional benefits, the main for off camera flash is the high speed sync option. If you are going to shoot in bright light and still retain shallow depth of field the ability of shooting at shutter speeds higher than 1/250 is useful. Plus you have the ability to control the flash exposure in camera.. The downside of going the canon speedlight route is that you need two flashes (or a wireless controller). For instance to use a 580exII as a master and a 430ex as the slave you are talking about $600 in flashes to start before you get stands or light modifiers. That puts you quite a ways down the road to an Alien Bee set. The bees are more powerful, have a wider range of controls and modifiers, but they are less portable, even with the vagabond battery pack..

It would sure help to have some idea of where you eventually want to end up

[guntoter]

I have been following this thread with much interest as I have some similiar questions. I already have a 580 ex II, and I have been getting some real nice shots with the flash mounted to camera using Ettl. It surprised me how well the flash adjusts to the needed flash without blowing out the shots. It actually fills in the dark shadows really well.

I know by reading here & viewing many pictures that getting the flash off-camera even yeilds better images. So that is what I want to do.

I would be shooting outdoor shots along the lines of Senior or Prom pics. Later I may want to breaking into weddings as well. I would also be trying to setup a studio situation later on.

But what I am really wanting right now is a "beginner" setup for off-camera, and something I can expand on later.
stands
modifier
triggering devices
other needed items.

Any suggestions on what would be a good setup like that to go along with the 580 ex? I don't want to "break the bank", but I am willing to spend enough to get good stuff. So it would be a one-flash setup for now to use with my 580 ex.

thanks for help.

[gonzogolf]

But what I am really wanting right now is a "beginner" setup for off-camera, and something I can expand on later.
stands
modifier
triggering devices
other needed items.

Any suggestions on what would be a good setup like that to go along with the 580 ex? I don't want to "break the bank", but I am willing to spend enough to get good stuff. So it would be a one-flash setup for now to use with my 580 ex.

thanks for help.

Joel,
my suggestion for a starter kit. Get a stand, doesn't matter much which one because speedlights arent that heavy. You will need an adapter. I like the ones that I got from flashzebra, but there are lots available on the market for $15-20. As far as light modificiers go. Umbrellas, reflective or shoot through work nicely and you can get them fairly cheaply. I'd suggest a softbox eventually. I got the 28x28 westcott because it's really well designed for that sort of use and doesnt require a speed ring to adapt a flash. The biggest dilemma for you is how to trigger the flash. I'd suggest getting a long off camera flash cord to start with so you can retain the ettl features of your canon flash. ETTL allows you to use the high speed sync, essential for fill flash on sunny days. Flashzebra carries the cords and you can also find threads on here how to make them from a shorter ocf cord.

Radio triggers have their own share of trade offs. You can get the cactus radio triggers cheaply enough, but they have some reliability issues. Cybersync's from the alien bee folks are reliable, but you give up ettl. Older Pocket wizards have better range, but also no ettl.

[guntoter]

Joel,
my suggestion for a starter kit. Get a stand, doesn't matter much which one because speedlights arent that heavy. You will need an adapter. I like the ones that I got from flashzebra, but there are lots available on the market for $15-20. As far as light modificiers go. Umbrellas, reflective or shoot through work nicely and you can get them fairly cheaply. I'd suggest a softbox eventually. I got the 28x28 westcott because it's really well designed for that sort of use and doesnt require a speed ring to adapt a flash. The biggest dilemma for you is how to trigger the flash. I'd suggest getting a long off camera flash cord to start with so you can retain the ettl features of your canon flash. ETTL allows you to use the high speed sync, essential for fill flash on sunny days. Flashzebra carries the cords and you can also find threads on here how to make them from a shorter ocf cord.

Radio triggers have their own share of trade offs. You can get the cactus radio triggers cheaply enough, but they have some reliability issues. Cybersync's from the alien bee folks are reliable, but you give up ettl. Older Pocket wizards have better range, but also no ettl.

Thanks. You have given me a starting point. I have looked on the flashzebra site and found some good items.

Any other suggestions are very welcome.

[rammy]

Could you tell what all I would need to buy if I decided to go with the canon flash setup?

You could get the Canon wireless transmitter to retain ETTL or use a 580EX to control remotes and turn off the flash on the 580 to use it as a commander unit only.

I have the Elinchrom Skyports with a transmitter and two receivers. You have to get hot shoe connectors for the cables, I got mine from flashzebra. If I want to go ETTL, which is rare at the moment as I use ND filters, then I can use my 580EX as I mentioned earlier.