Would you ever show bad photographer's work to win a client?

[waple]

I was looking at some sites of other "pro" photographers near me and some of these people just have horrible photography on their horrible sites. I would absolutely love to show a client what they can get if they spend less money or even spend the same or more in some cases.

However, I'm assuming it's a pretty unethical thing to do and I'd hate for someone to do that to me. Would you do that?

Now what if someone said, "show me some samples of why you're better than others"? At that point would it be okay to pull up these other sites?

[Alleh]

Most likely nobody will ever ask you to show them why your photos are better. With clients it's best not to compare your work to others because in that game your probably not on the top. You just need to make sure your work hold's it's own. If people decide to shoot with someone else it just because they saw some type of value in the other option.

[LBaldwin]

Nope, never. Bad karma, will be the result. If you have to crap on someones shoes to make yours look better, chances are your work sux too.

I want my clients to choose me for the quality of the work presented. Not the rate, availibility or how bad every other shooter in my area is. Truth be told in the SF/San Jose area there are so many photographers above and below any given quality level you could spend the rest of your days knocking others work.

It is against my personal and professional ethics, and it is not something I would ever do against another shooter...

[artona]

You should be good enough to be booked on your own standard not have to show other photographers work and remember what you think is bad might be perfect so you might be getting other photographers work!

[Gedanken]

It's a bad idea. Dragging the benchmark down may tell clients that you're going for the lowest common denominator, or at very least that you're interested in just avoiding low standards rather than going for high standards.

[Gentleman Villain]

There's a good chance the client won't be able to tell the difference.

I was assisting on a food shoot once with a team of 2 food photographers. They had done a few specialized books for top chefs and also worked with some great stylists from the movie industry. They were really good...it's not possible to find better food photographers. Anyhow, they were hired to do a food shoot through an ad agency. The art director told them ahead of time that the client didn't feel good about the high cost of the shoot but signed off on it anyway...The client didn't seem to trust the art director and decided to come to the shoot to see things firsthand.. When the client got to the studio... one of the photographers pulled a bunch of food ads out of magazines that were shot by lesser studios to try and demonstrate the differences between the lower cost studios and the higher priced ones... Needless to say...it didn't go too well. The client couldn't tell the differences at all and just sat there with a disgusted look on her face.

I've got a few more stories but that one probably makes the point....MOst Clients don't know WTF they are looking at.

Don't ever compare your work to other photographers. Don't ever bash other photographers. It doesn't work. Most of the time...the clients can't tell the difference anyway and it just makes ya look like a jerk.

[Gentleman Villain]

Now what if someone said, "show me some samples of why you're better than others"? At that point would it be okay to pull up these other sites?

That's an awesome question! You'd be really lucky to get a client that seriously asked that question...and it's a great opportunity to sell yourself without looking like a jerk

First of all...DO NOT show other photographer's work..NEVER...don't do it

Instead, show the client the problems that you solved in your own work. FOr example, show them that the highlights are controlled and that there is detail in the blacks. Show that certain areas are perspective controlled Etc.

Show the client photographic details that you know other photographers are not doing correctly. That way, when the client looks at other photographers the client will be educated and can see the differences between good and bad photography.

You can show the client all kinds of things...color balance...elements of composition...tons of stuff. Be creative...the best way to sell yoursel to a client is to educate them....DO NOT compare your work directly to other photographers...This allows the client to feel he's making an informed decision on his own. Hope that makes sense...good luck with your future work.

[cdifoto]

Nope, never. Bad karma, will be the result. If you have to crap on someones shoes to make yours look better, chances are your work sux too.

I want my clients to choose me for the quality of the work presented. Not the rate, availibility or how bad every other shooter in my area is. Truth be told in the SF/San Jose area there are so many photographers above and below any given quality level you could spend the rest of your days knocking others work.

It is against my personal and professional ethics, and it is not something I would ever do against another shooter...
Agreed.

People either like me and my work or they don't like me and my work. It's as simple as that.

[Karl Johnston]

I was looking at some sites of other "pro" photographers near me and some of these people just have horrible photography on their horrible sites. I would absolutely love to show a client what they can get if they spend less money or even spend the same or more in some cases.

However, I'm assuming it's a pretty unethical thing to do and I'd hate for someone to do that to me. Would you do that?

Now what if someone said, "show me some samples of why you're better than others"? At that point would it be okay to pull up these other sites?
Sounds like bad karma, underhanded business and it would probably backfire in practice, anyway.

Service is a huge carrying factor in this business, it can make up for crappy photography entirely. If you come across as an ass, or someone who's talking down other photographers in your area..then that automatically tells the client why they shouldn't hire you.

If you're entertaining, flattering and positive on the other hand...

[waple]

Yeah, that's kind of what I was figuring most would say, and it does make sense. And a couple good pieces of advice there too.

Thanks much

[squabman]

How would you feel if someone did they same to you? If they badmouthed your work to every client in town. It would not be a wise business decision.

[bric-a-brac]

I've thought about making an "educational" handout to give to prospective clients that helps them know "what to look for" when reviewing the portfolio of photographers, where I intentionally take a photograph incorrectly and then place it next a correct one as a comparison, complete with a written explanation of wrong vs. right. You know, stuff like:

White balance (wedding dresses are not green, skin is not purple)

unnecessary noise from poor exposure

composition (loose enough to frame & not cropping any limbs in a way that looks like amputation)

etc. etc. and the like.

[waple]

I've thought about making an "educational" handout to give to prospective clients that helps them know "what to look for" when reviewing the portfolio of photographers, where I intentionally take a photograph incorrectly and then place it next a correct one as a comparison, complete with a written explanation of wrong vs. right. You know, stuff like:

White balance (wedding dresses are not green, skin is not purple)

unnecessary noise from poor exposure

composition (loose enough to frame & not cropping any limbs in a way that looks like amputation)

etc. etc. and the like.

That's an awesome idea. I can look at these other photographer's sites and see what makes them look bad to me and recreate it. I think I'm going to do that. I'm working on a before/after book to show my retouching skills. Maybe a good/bad type of book as well.

[bric-a-brac]

That's an awesome idea. I can look at these other photographer's sites and see what makes them look bad to me and recreate it. I think I'm going to do that. I'm working on a before/after book to show my retouching skills. Maybe a good/bad type of book as well.

if/when you make this, post a follow up. It's only in the idea stage right now, and I'd be interested to see how you approach it.

[S.Horton]

In sales, long ago, I learned this lesson:

1. Never refer anyone to any competitor
2. Never discuss a competitor
3. If the competitor's name comes up, you know little/nothing about them
4. Go to 1

[Gentleman Villain]

In sales, long ago, I learned this lesson:

1. Never refer anyone to any competitor
2. Never discuss a competitor
3. If the competitor's name comes up, you know little/nothing about them
4. Go to 1

short but sweet....I like it like that :D

[S.Horton]

Ah, now I see what you posted above -- +1

But even educating the buyer is rarely worthwhile -- Do it just a bit, only to help convince them that you're premium price is worth it.

Like salt, just a bit goes a long way.

Too much, yuck.

The French have a saying for it when someone talks too much about their background -- Experience is like marmalade; the less you have, the thinner you have to spread it.

[Gentleman Villain]

The French have a saying for it when someone talks too much about their background -- Experience is like marmalade; the less you have, the thinner you have to spread it.

ah...That's a good way of explaining why mediocre and bad photographers never have a problem selling their work....and really good photographers need an agent LOL

[JWright]

I was looking at some sites of other "pro" photographers near me and some of these people just have horrible photography on their horrible sites. I would absolutely love to show a client what they can get if they spend less money or even spend the same or more in some cases.

However, I'm assuming it's a pretty unethical thing to do and I'd hate for someone to do that to me. Would you do that?

Now what if someone said, "show me some samples of why you're better than others"? At that point would it be okay to pull up these other sites?

I think you answered the question yourself...

[airfrogusmc]

"Would you ever show bad photographer's work to win a client ?"

No, I work mostly with art directors, graphic designers and clients that hire photographers for a look. Usually they know who will work best for which project but I would still NEVER rip on another photographers work to a client or show a photographers work that I thought was substandard to a client.

I do what I do and some like it, some don't. I've been feeding my family with photography for over 20 years full time and to rip another photographers work is just not the way to get business in my opinion.

Also wanted to add I really don't want to work for clients at this point in my career that can't see the difference.

[WillMass]

Nope, Never.

You won't become a saint on the sins of others.

[S.Horton]

^^ I love that quote.

[ovjamaica]

It is against my personal and professional ethics, and it is not something I would ever do against another shooter...

That says it all. In any sort of sales environment, it's best to work honestly and in an ethical way. Doing so will ALWAYS put you ahead of others who are willing to use below-the-belt tactics like this. To be successful in any sort of sales you must show the customer that you have quality, and not just in your product. As a photographer, you are selling yourself and your "quality" as much as you are selling the quality of your photos.