Help me with tripod choice

[Tawcan]

I have a cheap aluminum tripod that I used when I had my P&S. Now I have a 450D I found the tripod can no longer hold the weight of the camera. I've been putting off tripod purchase for a while now but I think I'm in need of one. I'd like something light so I'm more inclined to carry it around in the city (<2 kg?). Of course the lighter the better as I go on a lot of outdoor trips while carrying a 20-40 lbs pack. It'd be really good if I could carry the tripod with me so I have more flexibilities on what kind of pics I can take.

Looking around on POTN I noticed that a lot of people have Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 tripod and 486RC2/488RC2 ball head. The other day I went to a local camera shop to take a look at tripods and the salesman suggested the following:

-Giottos MT8246B (carbon fibre, $$)
-Giottos MT9340B (aluminum)

He mentioned that he likes the Giotto twist locking system better than the Manfrotto locking system. For ball head he suggested Giottos MT1302 or MT1301.

MT8246B is significantly lighter but also almost double the price while MT9340B is about the same weight as 190CXPRO3. Giottos MT9340B seems to have a better center column system than 190CXPRO3.

I currently have 450D, 580EX II and the 18-55 IS kit lens. I'm planning to get the 17-40L soon and the 70-200 F2.8 IS lens once I save up even more. That gives you a rough idea how heavy the tripod would need to support.

So my question is... would the combo of Giottos MT9340B and Manfrottos 488RC2 be good (~1.96kg) or should I go with a different combination? I need your help!

[Tawcan]

Bump anyone?

[Maxdave]

I have nothing but good to say about my Giottos MT-7371 lava tripod and MH-3300 Giottos ballhead, except that the ballhead is quite heavy. I think the MH-1300 would make a good alternative.

Maxdave

[JohnJ80]

I have a cheap aluminum tripod that I used when I had my P&S. Now I have a 450D I found the tripod can no longer hold the weight of the camera. I've been putting off tripod purchase for a while now but I think I'm in need of one. I'd like something light so I'm more inclined to carry it around in the city (<2 kg?). Of course the lighter the better as I go on a lot of outdoor trips while carrying a 20-40 lbs pack. It'd be really good if I could carry the tripod with me so I have more flexibilities on what kind of pics I can take.

Looking around on POTN I noticed that a lot of people have Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 tripod and 486RC2/488RC2 ball head. The other day I went to a local camera shop to take a look at tripods and the salesman suggested the following:

-Giottos MT8246B (carbon fibre, $$)
-Giottos MT9340B (aluminum)

He mentioned that he likes the Giotto twist locking system better than the Manfrotto locking system. For ball head he suggested Giottos MT1302 or MT1301.

MT8246B is significantly lighter but also almost double the price while MT9340B is about the same weight as 190CXPRO3. Giottos MT9340B seems to have a better center column system than 190CXPRO3.

I currently have 450D, 580EX II and the 18-55 IS kit lens. I'm planning to get the 17-40L soon and the 70-200 F2.8 IS lens once I save up even more. That gives you a rough idea how heavy the tripod would need to support.

So my question is... would the combo of Giottos MT9340B and Manfrottos 488RC2 be good (~1.96kg) or should I go with a different combination? I need your help!

Don't know anything about Giottos and, in general, I've not found the help at local camera stores to be all that knowledgeable - but that's just me.

First you really need to educate yourself on tripods. read these links:
http://bythom.com/support.htm
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/tripods_&_heads.shtml
http://markins.com/charlie/report4e6.pdf

Also be helpful to know something about your budget and preferences toward these three characteristics: Cost, weight and stability (you can have any two but not all three). Also need to know what you are expecting to shoot with it.

Low cost, solid stability, heavy: Manfrotto 055Pro (3021) + 488RC2 ballhead.

Medium cost, solid stability, light: Feisol (forget which one), 488RC2 ballhead.

high cost, light weight weight, top stability: Gitzo 1541 plus Markins Q3T.

You're right. You need a tripod. It's as important to much of your image quality as a good lens.

J.

[Tawcan]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm looking at medium cost, probably around $400-500 CAN? Preferably something less than 2kg for the entire system (lighter the better of course). Perhaps I could also go with low cost, use that in the system in the city and get myself a Gorillapod and use that when I'm in the backcountry...

Sounds like 488RC2 ballhead is a good choice?

[JohnJ80]

I think if you went with a Feisol tripod and the 488RC2, you would hit your target. That would give you the lighter weight of CF, the damping capability of CF etc... The 488RC2 is a bare bones ball head that doesn't cost much. Whey you want to step up you can and you won't be out much. As well, they are popular and you would have no issues selling it, I would think.

Ultimately, getting in Arca Swiss compatible plates is what you want to do and that will be a more expensive ballhead, plate and clamp.

J.

[Tawcan]

Is CT-3441B and Manfrotto 488RC2 a good combo? I've read that with 488RC2 the tripod cannot be back folded properly? Is there another ball head you'd suggest?

[Vanman1100]

Check this out. http://www.sliktripod.co.uk/pages/PRO340DX.html I have this and the Manfrotto 488RC2. It is much better than the Manfrotto equivalent which I was able to push the centre column down when supposedly locked in place. The Slik tripod has 3 position legs and the centre column is able to be put in upside down. And the column is in two sections also. It's not CF but it is Titanium alloy which is quite light. It fits on the back of my Lowepro Flipside 400 really well and I have cycled all over town and I couldn't have come up with a better combo. Tripod $89 shipped from B&H and the 488RC2 I bought here in the for sale section for $60. You can't beat that. Check it out you'll like it.
I also have a 70-300mm lens and there is absolutely no problem handling the weight.

[JohnJ80]

Is CT-3441B and Manfrotto 488RC2 a good combo? I've read that with 488RC2 the tripod cannot be back folded properly? Is there another ball head you'd suggest?

IIRC, the thing is pretty short folded even without the ballhead in side (i.e. folded normally). You'd have to read the spec on the 488 and figure it out. Consider that most tripods legs go for 22" folded for 4 section and this is considerably smaller (17").

J.

[Tawcan]

At 680g the 488RC2 seems a bit on the heavy side. Are there any ball heads out there in the same price range that's lighter?

Is Fiesol CB-30C Ball head any good?

[TMR Doctor]

the brand ,Benro,make in china,do you hear of ?
I use this brand tripod,they are most copy of Gitzo, Manfrotto etc.But the price is more lowest,of course,quality is also reasonable,all do not want to spend low price to buy an useless product.I bought this one
http://www.linkdelight.com/index.php/Tripods-Heads/Benro-8x-Carbon-Fiber-Travel-Angel-C-268M8-Tripod-+-B-1-Ballhead/Detailed-product-flyer.html

[JohnJ80]

At 680g the 488RC2 seems a bit on the heavy side. Are there any ball heads out there in the same price range that's lighter?

Is Fiesol CB-30C Ball head any good?

Well, it's back to the idea that you can get stable, cheap and light - pick any two because you can't get all three. The 488RC2 is stable and it's cheap. It is not light.

The knockoff brands have a very checkered history in quality in ballheads. I personally would not touch them (Feisol, Benro etc...).

For example, here is a detailed teardown of one of Benro's. Not good. They disguise this with a nice outside finish and paint job - classic knock off tactics.

http://www.tomwebsterphoto.com/Essays/Benro/benroks2.htm

J.

[squiress]

Weight appears to be a real issue here. I wouldn't stutter-step with anything aluminum in the tripod department. Go get an entry level carbon fiber. A one series tripod (upper segment leg diameter of ~25mm) will be $200-$350 depending on who you go with (and well over $500 if Gitzo). Any of them in that cheaper range have excellent stability and damping characteristics in my opinion and are worth the extra dollars over aluminum. The ball head is less important but since you're planning on spending ~$1600USD for the 70-200 you ought to be comfortable spending 1/3 - 1/2 half that on support gear. If you buy a good lightweight ballmount like the Markins Q3 and a carbon fiber tripod you will take your camera on a tripod all over with you. You also ought to consider one of the travel variants in the tripod if you're going to be hoofing it around. I have lots of Benro stuff (and other Chinese variants) and lots of L glass and it all works well together (bodies up to 1D), but I haven't used an aluminum tripod in a long time. I also don't like the non-AS plate systems. You will limit yourself by going with one of them and waste time and money on a head that uses them in my opinion. I also have Arca Swiss and Markins ball mounts, yet don't think I gain anything stability-wise with them, just save more weight (Markins Q3). As for the less expensive carbon fiber tripods, the only issue is long term durability in my opinion; still lots of value there. You might check my thoughts on tripods and ball mounts below. Also I did some vibration testing while evaluating series (leg diameter) here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=335245

You need to be thinking carbon fiber at this point and an AS plate system. And that your support budget needs to be bigger in my opinion by a factor of two.

[Tawcan]

I'm 99% sure that I'm going to get the Feisol CT-3441B tripod. It's light (1.0kg), folds down to 43 cm and can support up to 10 kg. The light weight and compactness factors mean there's a good chance that I'd take it with me on my hiking/skiing trips (depends on where I'm going and how much stuff I'm carrying already of course). Probably not mountaineering trips since I'd be carrying a lot of stuff already...

Anyway, in terms of ballhead I'm a bit lost. I understand the "good" ballheads will cost in the upward of $200 US. I know in the near fut ure I will get the 70-200 F2.8 IS (probably next year?). I also know I will upgrade to the 17-40L within the next 2-3 months. The Manfrotto 488RC2 has a lot of recommendations but it's heavy and most importantly it wouldn't allow the feisol tripod to reverse fold completely. That might be a killer. I was looking at Feisol CB-30C ballhead since it can come with the tripod as a package but I haven't found any review on this particular ballhead. There seems to be a lot of mix reviews on these "Chinese" knockoff brands so I'm not 100% sure who to listen to. Seems like most ppl who complain about these knockoff brands are using much bigger lenses?

I guess one route is get the Feisol tripod with the Feisol ballhead for now then upgrade later if/when I need to.
Or bite the bullet and get a good ballhead to begin with. Considering I'm only using a 18-55 IS kit lens right now I kind of want to save some money and buy a good lens first.

Suggestions?

PS I never used ball head before, could someone explain why some ball heads are bad and some are better/good? Is it b/c the ball head moves/sags when you have the lens & camera mounted on? What's so good about an AS plate system?

[squiress]

I would have no problems at all with the CB-30C ball mount as a first ball mount. The ball is only 1.18" in diameter and will in a very minor way affect smoothness (larger ball means smoother movement). Your goal of lightweight and compactness overrides that, in my opinion.

As to Chinese knock-offs, even Giottos (Taiwanese) is a Chinese knock-off company in my opinion. The basic ball mount designs are all Arca Swiss or Gitzo based except for RSS, which is ground-up fresh. So in my opinion Markins, Kirk and the fact that RSS uses compression on a ball makes them all knock-offs as well. That said, the other issues are based on metal-work quality and long term durability.

A good ball mount should be smooth, allow for tension adjustment so that when a camera is mounted it may be moved and stay where moved to. The camera clamping system should be solid and hold the plate tightly. Tom Webster's article shows some design compromises Benro (and many other ball mount makers) have taken to bring down cost. My teardowns show some of the same things. Some describe torsional loading limits and that's important for off-axis loads, especially long lenses or tipped camera shots. Less important for the gear you're describing. I think professionals need to be non-compromising. (Of course they get to write off these purchases as well.) I try to take more of a value approach that takes into account my more limited use (abuse) of equipment. For me I am getting great value from my equipment, especially the Chinese knock-offs.

Oh, and the Arca Swiss plate system has become a professional standard. Manfrotto has RC0, RC2 and RC4 plates. Pain to swap between them.

[JohnJ80]

I'm 99% sure that I'm going to get the Feisol CT-3441B tripod. It's light (1.0kg), folds down to 43 cm and can support up to 10 kg. The light weight and compactness factors mean there's a good chance that I'd take it with me on my hiking/skiing trips (depends on where I'm going and how much stuff I'm carrying already of course). Probably not mountaineering trips since I'd be carrying a lot of stuff already...

Anyway, in terms of ballhead I'm a bit lost. I understand the "good" ballheads will cost in the upward of $200 US. I know in the near fut ure I will get the 70-200 F2.8 IS (probably next year?). I also know I will upgrade to the 17-40L within the next 2-3 months. The Manfrotto 488RC2 has a lot of recommendations but it's heavy and most importantly it wouldn't allow the feisol tripod to reverse fold completely. That might be a killer. I was looking at Feisol CB-30C ballhead since it can come with the tripod as a package but I haven't found any review on this particular ballhead. There seems to be a lot of mix reviews on these "Chinese" knockoff brands so I'm not 100% sure who to listen to. Seems like most ppl who complain about these knockoff brands are using much bigger lenses?

I guess one route is get the Feisol tripod with the Feisol ballhead for now then upgrade later if/when I need to.
Or bite the bullet and get a good ballhead to begin with. Considering I'm only using a 18-55 IS kit lens right now I kind of want to save some money and buy a good lens first.

Suggestions?

PS I never used ball head before, could someone explain why some ball heads are bad and some are better/good? Is it b/c the ball head moves/sags when you have the lens & camera mounted on? What's so good about an AS plate system?

Get the good glass first then get the tripod then further glass additions. Feisol is a good choice. I'd vote against the Chinese knockoffs. You will almost certainly toss them later. That makes anything you buy essentially almost twice the price (certainly more). In that case, save your sheckels and buy better stuff the first time - it's a lot cheaper to do it that way.

J.