Canon Employees Are Forbidden to Sit Down, Walk at Normal Pace

[powerslave]

http://gizmodo.com/5273192/canon-employees-are-forbidden-to-sit-down-walk-at-normal-pace

Am I missing something or is this for real? :eek:

[gjl711]

Pretty bizarre that's for sure.

[cl0ne666]

Not sure if this is repost or the wrong forum but i thought it was quite interesting. http://gizmodo.com/5273192/canon-employees-are-forbidden-to-sit-down-walk-at-normal-pace

[Aweitzel]

I work at a gas station, on a holiday, or just a good busy day going 6-8 hours none stop with out sitting is very common. I shouldnt say going Straight from clock in to out we do get 2 ten min breaks and a 30 min lunch.
And its more then just taking money for gas. we still have to clean, prep food, stock, deal with customers, etc.

[Quad]

They should only have one bathroom as well. Cut down on those frills.

[Aweitzel]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8019412#post8019412
Double posted...

[powerslave]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8019412#post8019412
Double posted...
By you :p

[JWright]

I work at a gas station, on a holiday, or just a good busy day going 6-8 hours none stop with out sitting is very common. I shouldnt say going Straight from clock in to out we do get 2 ten min breaks and a 30 min lunch.
And its more then just taking money for gas. we still have to clean, prep food, stock, deal with customers, etc.

I worked in an aircraft factory for 15 years and it was a rare occasion that we got to sit down. It was the same at Home Depot. When we were on the sales floor we were constantly moving. I currently do aviation photography and that usually entails standing on hard concrete for hours at a time. I don't see that what's happening at Canon (if that isn't some kind of a joke) is any different.

[30Duser]

http://gizmodo.com/5273192/canon-employees-are-forbidden-to-sit-down-walk-at-normal-pace

http://www.dannychoo.com/detail/mac/eng/image/19639/Canon+Electronics.html

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/05/2009May29023313_19639.jpg

You might think your job sucks, but at least your boss wasn't insane enough to remove all the chairs and install security so an alarm goes off if you don't walk fast enough. The president of Canon (http://gizmodo.com/tag/canon/) Electronics, Hisashi Sakamaki, is also the author of a book proposing some of the same measures he takes with his own company. His theory is that forcing employees to stand not only saves money but increases productivity and enhances employee relationships.
In the hallway, if an employee walks slower than 5 meters every 3.6 seconds, an alarm and flashing lights are set off, reminding the poor startled worker that he's an inefficient waste of air. Even better (or worse), there's a sign on the floor in said hallways that reads, "Let's rush: If we don't, the company and world will perish." The big boss, as a reward for thinking up all this stuff, gets to lounge in a nice, relaxing chair.

[saturnin]

OWNED!!!!!! i love my canon gear! :D

[30Duser]

i can think of ****load of jobs here in the states where workers are required to stand the entire time while working. all fast food, factory, store, at&t store employees just to name a few. an alarm going off if you're walking too slow is a little weird but nothing to extreme.

[Karl Johnston]

As a union rep, this makes me want to switch to pentax more than ever.

[saturnin]

our jobs deal directly wif public. dey **** looks like call center, call centre=chairs :)

[cl0ne666]

Weird.

[SamClarkPhotography]

Interesting... odd, yes... but interesting.

[Ralpho]

As a union rep, this makes me want to switch to pentax more than ever.

Maybe you should find out how Pentax treats its employees before you switch.

[Karl Johnston]

That's a good idea, though for some reason i thought canon was a chinese company and it turns out its japanese along with pentax.

From the sound of it, though, that's got to be imposing on human rights at least a little bit. Standing around all day is hard on the body..the moving at a certain pace thing is also pretty hardcore, too.

[Ralpho]

That's a good idea, though for some reason i thought canon was a chinese company and it turns out its japanese along with pentax.

From the sound of it, though, that's got to be imposing on human rights at least a little bit. Standing around all day is hard on the body..the moving at a certain pace thing is also pretty hardcore, too.

I haven't tested it, but do we know for sure that the walking speed Canon requires is difficult to achieve? It could be just a normal brisk pace. You'd never get away with it in this country though. It discriminates against short people.

[Zwiz]

Do you think the president of Canon, this Sakamaki guy stand all day long and never sit? Does he force his executives to do meetings without chairs? Canon product quality is been going down the last years. Maybe they should sit a bit, slow down and think about what they do.

[mattograph]

None of them look overweight......?

[CAL Imagery]

That's a good idea, though for some reason i thought canon was a chinese company and it turns out its japanese along with pentax.

From the sound of it, though, that's got to be imposing on human rights at least a little bit. Standing around all day is hard on the body..the moving at a certain pace thing is also pretty hardcore, too.
They could always quit, instead of pulling the human rights card.

[mnaz]

None of them look overweight......?

Yeah maybe we should implement it here.

[CAL Imagery]

Yeah maybe we should implement it here.
It should cut down on health insurance too.

[mattograph]

Especially if they cut the chiropractic care!

[neil_r]

And they all have a choice :-)

[condyk]

1984 is a pretty good book ... I think it probably sucks living it in real life.

[CAL Imagery]

1984 is a pretty good book ... I think it probably sucks living it in real life.
Bad example. 1984 was the government, not a private corporation. You can't escape a government, but you can quit a job. Plus, not many jobs are out there that you can't sit down? It's not exactly like when shooting an all day event a photographer can sit down in a recliner.

[condyk]

Thanks ... I think it's a great example. Where the oppression originates from is irrelevant. Most people are free to quit their jobs and whatever, but then the fear of the consiquences means most don't. So where is the freedom?

[CAL Imagery]

Thanks ... I think it's a great example. Where the oppression originates from is irrelevant. Most people are free to quit their jobs and whatever, but then the fear of the consiquences means most don't. So where is the freedom?
Are you going to argue that every job that has people stand up and work quickly is authoritative? Afterall, every job is authoritative by nature in that if you don't do what your boss wants you to do (or clients), you won't be working for long.

Again, 1984 was about governments and double-speak about getting screwed over, not about a boss increasing productivity. Bad example.

[Gibbo]

that's far too extreme. Although i suppose everything in Japan is. Thanks for posting

[condyk]

:lol::lol: Ok ... we'll disagree, because you're way too literal in perspective for me to waste my time debating with. You sound like a guy who saw the movie, then went for a burger and didn't leave a tip :lol::lol:

[obnoxiousmom]

We have jobs like that already here in the states. A good many factory workers already do that, waitresses do that.

[CAL Imagery]

:lol::lol: Ok ... we'll disagree, because you're way too literal in perspective for me to waste my time debating with. You sound like a guy who saw the movie, then went for a burger and didn't leave a tip :lol::lol:
Wasting time? Ouch, that hurt. Sorry for pulling the shenanigans card on a hyperbole, assuming you had the correct thesis.

I've never seen the movie, but rather read the book (have you read the book, and if so, how does the movie compare?).

Actually, I tip well. It's my friends that won't tip 20% on 25 cent wing night, but will travel to China and Europe for a month that don't.

[condyk]

Read the book several times and same for most of his books, 'down and out in paris and london' is my favourite, plus biographies, seen the play ... didn't waste time on the film.

All his work contains underlying metaphors beyond the words on the page, but they are also based on the literal times they were written in (and particularly his experiences of the class system and communism and fascism).

The relevance today lies in the metaphors rather than the literal: hence some corporations and those who control them in some areas of the world are more powerful than the governments they support. Of course, in time of recession corporates are able to assume more oppressive ways of controlling their workforce ... precisely because people are not 'free to leave'.

There are many jobs that involve standing up but that isn't the point - you can stand up and retain some self respect or you can stand up because your boss demands it and have some ass timing how long you take to have a sh**. Personally, that kind of set up isn't gonna increase my productivity. A bit too slave labour for my liking. I prefer not to treat people like that either.

Glad you tip well ... me too.

[Jammet]

I do not know how to judge this, a lot of people, on the gizmodo reply's, I think went over board by saying they will never pay for Canon stuff again. I know they have a totally different work environment than we do, I think it is real but I would like to know what the employee's think of the change. It is not my place to say that their work environment is worse than mine because I have a chair and can walk as fast or as slow as I want, it is their opinions that matter. If they all hated it and felt it was wrong and unethical I would consider selling my Canon gear and going to Nikon but if not I am fine with their choices.

[mikekelley]

Yeah and I'm going to sell all of my clothes because I just found out that they are made in sweatshops!

[TooManyShots]

What is the big deal??? I manage a large retail chain store. I work 9 hours a day. I maybe sit 30 minutes (launch break) during my shift. I stand and walk all day. I also sometimes commute to work by bike. And 1 hour and 15 minutes per trip. Not that I condone Canon but the nature of my job is all about standing and walking around all day.

[Vascilli]

They're wrong. It's simply that way because they found out that having individual offices were cluttering. They also have shared community resources which is why you don't see any files at anybody's desk. The alarm for walking to slow is just a gimmick to encourage faster walking.

http://itpro.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/OPINION/20090518/330168/
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fitpro.nikkeibp.co.jp%2Farticle%2FOP INION%2F20090518%2F330168%2F&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=&swap=1

[CAL Imagery]

Read the book several times and same for most of his books, 'down and out in paris and london' is my favourite, plus biographies, seen the play ... didn't waste time on the film.

All his work contains underlying metaphors beyond the words on the page, but they are also based on the literal times they were written in (and particularly his experiences of the class system and communism and fascism).

The relevance today lies in the metaphors rather than the literal: hence some corporations and those who control them in some areas of the world are more powerful than the governments they support. Of course, in time of recession corporates are able to assume more oppressive ways of controlling their workforce ... precisely because people are not 'free to leave'.

There are many jobs that involve standing up but that isn't the point - you can stand up and retain some self respect or you can stand up because your boss demands it and have some ass timing how long you take to have a sh**. Personally, that kind of set up isn't gonna increase my productivity. A bit too slave labour for my liking. I prefer not to treat people like that either.

Glad you tip well ... me too.
Point taken, but still bad example.

[alt4852]

Thanks ... I think it's a great example. Where the oppression originates from is irrelevant. Most people are free to quit their jobs and whatever, but then the fear of the consiquences means most don't. So where is the freedom?

freedom is relative. a line has to be drawn in terms of freedom and oppression, and your analogy isn't really valid since that sort of generalization means that the whole world is enslaved. we all work jobs where we wish we were paid more, had to work less, or other circumstantial little things, but we're all working because we have bills to pay. if someone thinks their boss is a nutcase, they can quit. the argument that fear of consequences is a tool of the oppressors is too wide and applies to too many people.

i could use a bigger paycheck, and it'd be awesome if i could play video games all day at work. i can't, because i'll get fired. quitting isn't reasonable either because then i'll need to have another job lined up with at least as much pay or else my bills don't get paid and i'm out on the streets. oh america, land of the bitterly oppressed!

as nphsbuckeye noted, 1984 is about the government. there's a difference between authoritarianism originating from your national identity and from your boss at work. the government in the story imprisons and tortues, and possibly executes. the VERY WORST a boss can do is fire you and give you bad recommendations for your next job.

was smith free? no. am i? relatively speaking, yes.

[mattograph]

This standing thing..... think thats why my 1d3 wouldn't focus?

[neil_r]

OK I have had enough of this.... It is good to see that everyone can have such strong opinions based on what is obviously a thoroughly well researched and balanced view on the Canon corporate work ethic :rolleyes:

I now expect Mr Union Rep and others to divest themselves of there Canon equipment and replace it with kit that is more ethically sourced. Of course by doing so they will not only salve their consciences, they could also, if enough participate, force Canon out of business thereby making redundant the very people they thought they were helping.

If you are going to get on your high horse why not look at the third world sweatshops in India, Pakistan and other Asian countries that are exploiting both adult and child labour. Of course this exploitation is being carried out by very prosperous 1st world countries with the United States and Europe leading the way in driving down manufacturing costs to maintain their margins.

P.S. could not help noticing all the armchairs that were provided in the fields in California for the migrant workers when I last drove through the State, not!

[Karl Johnston]

The thing is, a high ranking technical job like working as an engineer for Canon should give more benefits (such as a chair) than something like working in retail, mcdonalds or out in a field..you would think.

Comparing an engineer to a minimum wage earning job...Hmm...doesn't make much sense.

It's unethical and fascist, in my eyes.

Maybe they should take a leaf out of google's book if they want to crack the billions and not be stuck at ~150 million.

[neil_r]

Comparing an engineer to a minimum wage earning job...Hmm...doesn't make much sense.

Oh I misunderstood, I thought you were going on about "Human Rights" I did not realise that peoples entitlement to Human Rights was determined by their salary or the social status of their job....

Silly Me :o

[Harreh]

I think it's an interesting initiative! It'd be fun to read some statistics on productivity if they were available.

They better have some good walking shoes. I feel sorry for any females who would want to wear high heels all day!

[rumplepigskin]

Do you think maybe this has been over exagerated like most stories on the internet?

[Karl Johnston]

Oh I misunderstood, I thought you were going on about "Human Rights" I did not realise that peoples entitlement to Human Rights was determined by their salary or the social status of their job....

Silly Me :o

No, in that case I was going on about benefits. In a job like retail, working in a restaurant, in a fast food bar or a factory, general labour, working in a field as a "migrant worker" you don't expect many job benefits. In something that takes a highly specialized technical degree and a LOT of money (especially in japan) to train as...you'd think they'd get a damned chair, at least :lol:

Though, you are sadly correct. Entitlement to human rights is more often than not determined by the status of your job, or your salary. It shouldn't be, but more often than not that's the very principle why unions exist.

The further up the status chain you go, the more benefits and rights you have.

edit: I just realized you could've been being sarcastic :lol:

[alt4852]

Comparing an engineer to a minimum wage earning job...Hmm...doesn't make much sense.

It's unethical and fascist, in my eyes.

that's probably the most demeaning thing said in this thread yet. you're up in arms about selling all your gear because some high-paying engineering jobs at canon don't provide chairs, but you're fine with minimum wage workers treated the same way because that's their place in society?

how is it unethical and fascist for an engineer and not unethical and fascist for a fast food worker? i think you're really going to extremes with those two words, as human rights is no longer the issue in your argument. your expectations for a certain social class is.

[mattograph]

Do you think maybe this has been over exagerated like most stories on the internet?

Yeah, I hate to be the one to not jump to conclusions, cause, you know, caution is boring, but......

1) Are we sure thats a picture of Canon? (no)
2) Are we sure the quotes are attributable? (no)
3) Did anyone else notice that this Danny guy does NIKON commercials? Is he like the the Ashton Kutcher of Asia? (and no.)

[tkbslc]

Did anyone actuall check the facts on this? I could post a picture of some asian people standing up at work and make the same claims about NIkon's office rules.

[Jimconnerphoto]

I think the Canon staff is doing a stellar job. Maybe it is because they stand, dunno. Great product and service. As previously stated there are many jobs where you cannot sit for hours on end. This is not a strenuous position.
I sit too much right now. I spend a few days running and shooting then the rest of the week on my a$$ in front of the computer. I should look into a standing desk too.

[londonandlawson]

Unions have their fair share of issues, they are a big reason the U.S. auto companies are having issues.

[mattograph]

If they decide they want to have sex on the bosses desk, do they still have to stand?

[Synovia]

Comparing an engineer to a minimum wage earning job...Hmm...doesn't make much sense.

It's unethical and fascist, in my eyes.

The idea that those with more technical skills should be treated with more human dignity is whats unethical and fascist.

[neil_r]

If they decide they want to have sex on the bosses desk, do they still have to stand?

No as long as you are fast enough to keep the speed monitors happy.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Shocking, the worst part is that Canon employees are actually Healthy, and don't weigh in at 12 stone!

I have been considering throwing away my work desk and chair in favor of a desk that you stand at. these were quite common 100 years ago, back when people were "Productive"

[CAL Imagery]

the very principle why unions exist.
I thought that was to complain and when they don't get their way, strike so they can be overpaid and help facilitate their companies go belly under. I know you're not from the US, but I'm sure you've heard of General Motors.

[Karl Johnston]

that's probably the most demeaning thing said in this thread yet. you're up in arms about selling all your gear because some high-paying engineering jobs at canon don't provide chairs, but you're fine with minimum wage workers treated the same way because that's their place in society?

how is it unethical and fascist for an engineer and not unethical and fascist for a fast food worker? i think you're really going to extremes with those two words, as human rights is no longer the issue in your argument. your expectations for a certain social class is.

Demeaning, yes, but that's the reality of it.
I'm not up in arms about anything. In a perfect world it would be great if we all had the same rights no matter what our social class or our status in the workplace..unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world, however, we are all entitled to human rights..but do we always get those rights? Depending on what our job title is and our rank..our rights are more easily argued and fought for than if we are at a lower tier.

technical worker or Engineer for canon...versus...fast food worker.

It should be more than an assumption that these workers would have more sway in having their rights abided by because they are engineers. When you are lower on the chain, such as working something like fast food, you're rights still of course apply..but they aren't as easy to get.

It's unethical and fascist for the CEO to apply that rule, for anybody.

It's not my opinion that these things should be the way they are...but that's more often than not, just the the way they are.

I'm also not about to change 15 grand in gear just because of this image..though the principle of the matter (if it's even true, of course) is a bit disturbing, not to mention unethical and fascist of the CEO..

[CAL Imagery]

Wow, you're applying qualifications for human rights; as in, you have to have some education to merit a job that justifies human rights.

And please stop using fascist to describe a company CEO. Use it with dictators. By applying it in the business world, you are weakening it where it ought to be used instead of your hyperbole.

[Karl Johnston]

I'm not applying anything..that's just how it is

There's no getting through to some people..

[SOK]

Yeah, I hate to be the one to not jump to conclusions, cause, you know, caution is boring, but......

1) Are we sure thats a picture of Canon? (no)
2) Are we sure the quotes are attributable? (no)
3) Did anyone else notice that this Danny guy does NIKON commercials? Is he like the the Ashton Kutcher of Asia? (and no.)

Exactly what I was going to ask. There's been a lot of (bizarre) talk about this one image/story...but few that have questioned its veracity.

But then again, if it's on the internet, it must be true!

I'm not applying anything..that's just how it is

There's no getting through to some people..

You didn't get through to me. I've re-read all of your posts trying to figure out what you're actually arguing...but I'm not sure that even you could!

[Karl Johnston]

I'm not arguing anything is the point, but I'll ignore future comments on that :lol: because people just want to twist my words every which way to cause arguments. All I'm saying is, in point form so maybe it'll be clearer:

1)If you have a "good" high profile job such as an engineer..it's more likely you'll have more support of your rights than if you were a fast food worker or some similar low-profile/low rank/minimum wage job like that.
2) You shouldn't, but it happens. Do I agree with that? No. But it happens.
3) Now the irony is...I said you would think that the canon workers would get more adherance to that benefit, but instead they're treated like fast food workers (minimum status job).

Being as difficult as it is to get the education to become an engineer, especially in japan, it's ironic they're treated under such circumstances.

Of course, they can always quit..but then again, so can everyone else in any job sector. Maybe its the best job available and they're trapped in it, like a lot of minimum wage job earners. So this is where unions come in..they stand up for your human rights and your labor rights...

Maybe they don't have a union. Maybe they like standing up..who knows? Maybe this picture is a fake story..

[Harreh]

In the end, guys, whoever it is that works at Canon produces some great cameras! Whether the weather be hot, whether the weather be cold, whether the weather whatever the weather and whether you like it or not!

:D Take the positives out of their hard work.

[CAL Imagery]

I'm not arguing anything is the point, but I'll ignore future comments on that :lol: because people just want to twist my words every which way to cause arguments. All I'm saying is, in point form so maybe it'll be clearer:

1)If you have a "good" high profile job such as an engineer..it's more likely you'll have more support of your rights than if you were a fast food worker or some similar low-profile/low rank/minimum wage job like that.
2) You shouldn't, but it happens. Do I agree with that? No. But it happens.
3) Now the irony is...I said you would think that the canon workers would get more adherance to that benefit, but instead they're treated like fast food workers (minimum status job).

Being as difficult as it is to get the education to become an engineer, especially in japan, it's ironic they're treated under such circumstances.

Of course, they can always quit..but then again, so can everyone else in any job sector. Maybe its the best job available and they're trapped in it, like a lot of minimum wage job earners. So this is where unions come in..they stand up for your human rights and your labor rights...

Maybe they don't have a union. Maybe they like standing up..who knows? Maybe this picture is a fake story..
Maybe they don't need a union?

[DennisW1]

I'm not arguing anything is the point, but I'll ignore future comments on that :lol: because people just want to twist my words every which way to cause arguments. All I'm saying is, in point form so maybe it'll be clearer:

1)If you have a "good" high profile job such as an engineer..it's more likely you'll have more support of your rights than if you were a fast food worker or some similar low-profile/low rank/minimum wage job like that.
2) You shouldn't, but it happens. Do I agree with that? No. But it happens.
3) Now the irony is...I said you would think that the canon workers would get more adherance to that benefit, but instead they're treated like fast food workers (minimum status job).

Being as difficult as it is to get the education to become an engineer, especially in japan, it's ironic they're treated under such circumstances.

Of course, they can always quit..but then again, so can everyone else in any job sector. Maybe its the best job available and they're trapped in it, like a lot of minimum wage job earners. So this is where unions come in..they stand up for your human rights and your labor rights...

Maybe they don't have a union. Maybe they like standing up..who knows? Maybe this picture is a fake story..



Fake or not, true or not, I would suspect that not everyone that works at Canon is an engineer. Perhaps the photo you're seeing (assuming it is an actual Canon factory work area) is of the assembly line workers, who are simply paid to assemble the final products that the engineers design.
I'm guessing that like the company president, the higher-ups in the company also aren't forced to work standing up or walk at a predetermined pace everywhere they go.

[mattograph]

Everyone that works at Canon IS an engineer. Even the oompa-loompas, that make the wonderful chocolate.

[alt4852]

As a union rep, this makes me want to switch to pentax more than ever.

I'm also not about to change 15 grand in gear just because of this image..though the principle of the matter (if it's even true, of course) is a bit disturbing, not to mention unethical and fascist of the CEO..

I'm not arguing anything is the point, but I'll ignore future comments on that :lol: because people just want to twist my words every which way to cause arguments.

i'm not trying to twist words or cause arguments, but i was somewhat taken aback by the fact that you initially said that you were considering switching all of your gear to another brand and a picture on the internet was possibly going to be the last straw. then, you took it back a few posts later. i left your own words in the context they were written in. i was only discussing your semantics on the "unethical and fascist" point later on because i didn't understand why you consider this to be so much more abhorrant to you than any other workplace.

do you refuse to give your business to any company that doesn't offer their employees with college degrees chairs to sit in?

[mattograph]

Oompa loompa's don't get chairs.

However, I just learned that neither "oompa" nor "loompa" are in my spell check dictionary.

Which just goes to show that if ANYONE needs union representation, it's the the oompa loompas.

Karl, can you help?

[alt4852]

Oompa loompa's don't get chairs.

However, I just learned that neither "oompa" nor "loompa" are in my spell check dictionary.

Which just goes to show that if ANYONE needs union representation, it's the the oompa loompas.

Karl, can you help?

whoa whoa.. hold up a second. do they even have engineering degrees? if not, they really shouldn't expect to have chairs to begin with. that's the reality that we live in. :lol:

[BrianXTi]

the hallway thing- that is 3.1 miles per hour- you should be able to do that on crutches :)
If they need a union for anything it would be to get rid of those shirts!

I own my own business, and I work on my feet because I get more done!

[mattograph]

whoa whoa.. hold up a second. do they even have engineering degrees? if not, they really shouldn't expect to have chairs to begin with. that's the reality that we live in. :lol:

Of course they have engineering degrees!!! You really think you could make a gobstopper without an engineering degree?

[tkbslc]

I just re-read the title of this post, and it is very provacative. "Canon employeed are FORBIDDEN to sit down..." It makes it sound like some slave labor camp. Japan is a free society and if the working conditions were unacceptable to the employees they would be free to leave and find an employer offering seating.

And I still think this is a BS post. Perhaps one department has this rule, if any.

Also, as fat as the "civilized" world is becoming, perhaps some standing and brisk walking is actually in the employees' best interest! :)

[skygod44]

Simply too tempting a thread to pass up on, guys.

First of all, Ty (Mattograph), I LOVE just about every post you've made....having a sense of humour is so important in these troubled times - especially if Willy Wonka has banned the unions.

Second, how many of you "strongly opinioned" guys have lived in Japan? There's a whole host of us in POTN who do, and I for one can tell you that this country is not into slave labour. It's a crazy country - but I've not seen any whipping going on (that wasn't bought and paid for!)

Men here do tend to work very long hours without overtime....but it's mostly because if they don't, they have to go home to their wives and kids!

Seriously.

No........really!

I wish that was sarcastic, but men here do seem lacking in family skills more than I've observed while living in France, Germany, Holland, Belgium or the UK.

So, back to post #1, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is a genuine story, but all those members throwing accusations at Japan about "the right to a chair", etc. need to see CDS's post (#56) and consider what a lazy-ar$ed culture we're developing. So obsessed with our rights, while ignoring our responsibilities.

Any of you seen "Wall-E"?
D'ya want the human race to end up as semi-oval blobs that can't stand up?

Over to you.....
:D

[bmhana]

Also living in Japan, I agree with Skygod.
To be honest, I don't know if this is true or not. I hadn't heard anything about this until I saw it on POTN. My wife knew nothing about it, my students know nothing about it, and I'm guessing Skygod didn't know anything about it until he saw this thread.

This leads me to believe that it is simply for the sake of productivity in a particular department, and while, indirectly it may also lead to a human rights issue, I think this abuse of human rights would be offset by the sizeable bonuses that most workers in Japanese companies receive every summer and winter. (Who knows, they may also get discounts on their shoes? - it wouldn't surprise me!!)

It is simply not in the Japanese nature to complain about things like this. Sure, they may get tired, but they still wouldn't complain about it, and certainly wouldn't go to any union.
When the company president pays for them all to go on a week long trip to Bali or Hawaii once or twice a year, or they use the afore mentioned bonuses to buy things for themselves or for their family, this is when they get their own back.

So, you see, they're probably not getting that bad a deal really. You can also see where your money is going...:lol:

[bmhana]

Sorry, mattograph - I didn't mean to imply that.;)
But I'm sure you know that!!:lol:

[mattograph]

Sorry, mattograph - I didn't mean to imply that.;)
But I'm sure you know that!!:lol:

Oh, I didn't think you implied it.

I was stating it as a fact.

We are mostly bitchy little girls in the lower 48 -- no offense to the girls. :)

[skygod44]

Oh, I didn't think you implied it.
I was stating it as a fact.
We are mostly bitchy little girls in the lower 48 -- no offense to the girls. :)

Now where's that Title Fairy?!?!?!?!

If you escape this one Ty, there is no justice on the planet. Escaping your "I've come out of the closet" comment was bad enough...but if you're not a "bitchy little girl" from here onwards, there must be something bad going on at POTN!
;)

[Now....where's Stealthy when I need him? Buggered if I know....he's too stealthy to spot!]

[mattograph]

Skygod, it'll never happen.

[RX350]

I guess I should stop complaining about sitting all day at work :rolleyes:

[Stealthy Ninja]

Now where's that Title Fairy?!?!?!?!

If you escape this one Ty, there is no justice on the planet. Escaping your "I've come out of the closet" comment was bad enough...but if you're not a "bitchy little girl" from here onwards, there must be something bad going on at POTN!
;)

[Now....where's Stealthy when I need him? Buggered if I know....he's too stealthy to spot!]



Right here. :)

Ty, Ty really do need to come out of the closet you bitchy little girl in the lower 48... :p :p :p

Now, what's a good title? I think the TF would have to decide. He/She/It is pretty clever with that sort of thing. :) :D

We love you TF please strike your vengeance upon the "cream of the crop" known as mattograph the TY one!!11

We beseech thee!!

[00silvergt]

This thread is definitely interesting. Equally interesting are the replies contained in here. First, the supposed health nuts who believe that the obesity and sitting at the workplace is related. This is a a baseless misconception, that some people rationalized to make sense. Actually: "Strong evidence linking prolonged standing at work to an increased risk of heart problems and stroke has recently come to light. Researchers have linked prolonged standing to an increased risk of carotid atherosclerosis, which in turn can cause an increased risk of heart attack and stroke" (Oneil, Hazards Magazine, Hazards 91, August 2005.) Actually, sitting with some brain activity can actually burn 70 Calories per hour (http://www.tooelehealth.org/Community_Health/CVD/Calories_Burned.html) Maybe, it is more of the diet and proper exercise rather than sitting at work all day long is the reason for a fat society?

So there are no health benefits to standing up, in fact it can be a health risk according to the European magazine, Hazards. As for productivity, I can see the increase in productivity if the employees are waitresses, retail, valets, concierge, etc. But for engineers? Engineering, that would require using a computer and that usually means you are sitting down. In fact, if you are sitting in the proper posture on a computer the less likely you are to be injured, which means less time off and also means increase productivity. Also, when one is sitting, comfortably while working using a computer the person can be more efficient. If the employee is thinking about pain or is uncomfortable you tend to get more fidgeting, more going away from the work area, more stretching and stress on the body. So the logic that these engineers that are forced to stand at work is more productive is hogwash and bears no foundation at all, as it applies to engineer.

The leisure gait that is required to walk 6 meters (21 feet), in 3.6 seconds or 6 ft per second is really of no benefit healthwise or productivity. The only benefit if, the employee were to do this often and for a long time, which means they are not very productive if they are walking around the building. If employees are not walking often and not for a long time, then what is the real difference if the employee took 2 minutes instead of 1.5 minutes to get from one place to another? 30 second efficiency? So it this truly rocking the production lines and productivity?

So I fail to see the productivity benefits. Without productivity gains, then if these rules really exist, then what Canon's executives are implementing these rules just because they can? That would be workplace oppression and create a hostile work environment. I don't know about Japan, but in the US this will not work, especially in California, where we have one of the toughest set of labor laws.

Someone said something along the lines of, "Hey, it is a job, no one forced them to work there." You must be self-employed, a manager, or self-absorbed. Are you suggesting, more so with this worldwise economic issue, that one can simply not work at a place, not feed their family, etc since they don't like the rules? What? Most people that still have jobs are reminded everyday by their employers about how lucky they are that they still have jobs, and you are suggesting that if they don't like the rules, they can quit? Are you serious? Also just because you are paying someone, doesn't mean you can do as you please and oppress the employees after all, they don't need to work here. Furthermore, just because an employee can at will resign if they don't like the conditions, is not reason enough to treat them in an inhumane manner, especially if it can adversely affect their health.

My .02 cents.

[Optiq]

Yeah, I'm not buyin this story. It's like the guy a few posts ago suggested . . . a Nikon guy trying to stir the pot!! Maybe they're upset about the 5DMK2. :p

[00silvergt]

Yeah, I'm not buyin this story. It's like the guy a few posts ago suggested . . . a Nikon guy trying to stir the pot!! Maybe they're upset about the 5DMK2. :p


More than likely, even though they do still kick Canon's butt with the D3x, I'm sure blood pressures have risen to cardiac attack levels when 1. Canon released the 5D Mark II and 2. When Canon released the firmware that gave the 5D Mark II the ability that was on the 5D Mark III wishlist; the manual controls in movie mode!:lol: Can you say, buh-bye D300...buh-bye...

[Jimconnerphoto]

This thread is definitely interesting. Equally interesting are the replies contained in here. First, the supposed health nuts who believe that the obesity and sitting at the workplace is related.

My .02 cents.
Not only do I believe if you sit on your bum all day every day you will physically suffer I am also a testament to this. I am also just about as far as you can get to being a health nut.
If I work in a job that constantly keeps my active I am sure to be in better shape, so why would the opposite but untrue?


I had a great response to this, but I had to run to the bathroom.

We had asparagus for dinner tonight, and now my potty smells really funny.

So now that's all I can think about.

Sorry.
oddly appropriate reply.
I had a similar experience today with the unfortunate luck to be at Best Buy at the time.

[00silvergt]

Not only do I believe if you sit on your bum all day every day you will physically suffer I am also a testament to this. I am also just about as far as you can get to being a health nut.
If I work in a job that constantly keeps my active I am sure to be in better shape, so why would the opposite but untrue?



oddly appropriate reply.
I had a similar experience today with the unfortunate luck to be at Best Buy at the time.


As written in my reply, standing all day is not good for you, neither. BTW, I too sit on my duff at work for the most part, I'm in IT at a law firm. But I go to the gym for 2.5 hours, 4X a week to compensate. To blame sitting at work as the cause for America's obesity and to suggest that to replace this sitting with standing is not only baseless dribble, but also silly scapegoating. Especially since the average American diet is also not helping this problem, if not compounding it.

[jklewer]

That's it, I'm selling all my stuff right now. Better yet, I'm going to put it all in a trash compactor and mail the cube to Hisashi Sakamaki with a strongly worded letter attached exclaiming my disapproval.

[Stealthy Ninja]

I happen to have a trash compactor... and I could mail it for you no problem.

PM and I'll give you the address to send your gear to. :D





:lol:

[skygod44]

I had a great response to this, but I had to run to the bathroom.
We had asparagus for dinner tonight, and now
my potty smells really funny.
So now that's all I can think about.
Sorry.

Ty....this is just about the most insane comment I've ever seen on POTN.
Are you ok?

And since the TF seems to be on holiday - not at Canon, I think - perhaps I should temporarily be given his/her powers.
;)

[Stealthy Ninja]

I think the TF is too busy watching Startrek over and over... 8)

[bmhana]

...or trying to find a place to hide from us lot.;)

[skygod44]

I think the TF is too busy watching Startrek over and over... 8)
...or trying to find a place to hide from us lot.;)
....or maybe Ty has a pact with the TF, after all, he seems VERY confident that his title won't become personalised.
:(

[S.Horton]

I had a great response to this, but I had to run to the bathroom.

We had asparagus for dinner tonight, and now my potty smells really funny.

So now that's all I can think about.

Sorry.

Between that and the bi-otch post, I do not think that the TF will be able to resist.

How about "Bitchin about potty smell in the lower 48"

I'd pay real money to be the TF for just a day.

@serious topic -- If they're happy, leave them alone. At least they have jobs.

[skygod44]

Between that and the bi-otch post, I do not think that the TF will be able to resist.
How about "Bitchin about potty smell in the lower 48"
I'd pay real money to be the TF for just a day.
@serious topic -- If they're happy, leave them alone. At least they have jobs.

Well, I'm skint, so could you pay for me too?
You can have Ty....but give me free reign for one of your earth-hours.
Please.....
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_15.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSfox000)

[T.D.]

It's starting to look like this thread has gone as far as it can go. Let's bring it back on topic and off the slams/political/OT stuff.

[skygod44]

It's starting to look like this thread has gone as far as it can go. Let's bring it back on topic and off the slams/political/OT stuff.

FAIRY-NUFF.

Canon make some pretty good gear.
We all enjoy using it.
The Japanese (like what dem Canon peeps are) are jolly polite people who wouldn't have much to do with slave labour (well, except the current PM's father near the end of WWII, but that's political!)
So, let's give up on the whole "sell off your gear 'cos Canon are mean" approach, and instead, be thankful that POTN is here for us to all learn more about the world.
:D

[mattograph]

Hmmm..... Looks like some of my posts got "flushed". Can't imagine why.......

*clears throat*

So I thought I was extremely fortunate to have:

5 Canon Camera
4 L Lenses
2 Kids
And a wonderful wife....

Little did I know that a true sign of my personal wealth was....

http://www.mattograph.com/photos/553751645_rkGwv-L.jpg

my 9 chairs!!!

[Stealthy Ninja]

I want to know why Canon can't combine their DSLR staff with there video camera staff (development teams I mean). Then we'd have a super camera that does stills AND video very well (yes, yes the 5Dmkii does good video, but it has its limitations).

[SoaringUSAEagle]

My wife is a teller at a bank and stands all day.

Face it, even us as photogs stand quite a bit when working - or lay on the ground, reach around things, hang off walls or whatever it takes to get the shot. Standing all day is nothing cruel or unusual. Prison guards, gate guards etc stand all day as well.

[Stealthy Ninja]

My wife is a teller at a bank and stands all day.

Face it, even us as photogs stand quite a bit when working - or lay on the ground, reach around things, hang off walls or whatever it takes to get the shot. Standing all day is nothing cruel or unusual. Prison guards, gate guards etc stand all day as well.

So you're saying Canon employees are just getting the "feel" of being a photographer to give them more sympathy for poor Canon uses who need to lug around a 1DsMkii 70-200mm 2.8L IS combo all day?!

Do I smell the perfecting of DO tech in the future?!

[alt4852]

So you're saying Canon employees are just getting the "feel" of being a photographer to give them more sympathy for poor Canon uses who need to lug around a 1DsMkii 70-200mm 2.8L IS combo all day?!

Do I smell the perfecting of DO tech in the future?!

or, they can inject helium into the spaces between the lens elements to make them lighter to carry. it's foolproof.

[mattograph]

or, they can inject helium into the spaces between the lens elements to make them lighter to carry. it's foolproof.

I can see the threads now.....

"How can I be sure theres enough helium in my lens?"

"Opps, I inhaled all the gas in my lens, and now I sound like a gerbil -- am I gonna die?"

"Nikon uses better helium in their lens -- what gives?"

"24-70 or 24-105?" (no list is complete without it!)

[Jacobredphoto]

or, they can inject helium into the spaces between the lens elements to make them lighter to carry. it's foolproof.

Haha, that would actually be awesome. bw!

[dispatchermike21]

Just read that Canon has bought all the folding chairs at the local Walmart.

[Stealthy Ninja]

I can see the threads now.....

"How can I be sure theres enough helium in my lens?"

"Opps, I inhaled all the gas in my lens, and now I sound like a gerbil -- am I gonna die?"

"Nikon uses better helium in their lens -- what gives?"

"24-70 or 24-105?" (no list is complete without it!)

Dang that sneaky TF, strikes when you least expect it! Well done TF. :D

[mattograph]

Dang that sneaky TF, strikes when you least expect it! Well done TF. :D

Unfortunately for TF, I was all over it the minute it happened. A quick check of "who's on" -- and VIola!


I now know the identity of TF!!!!

[Stealthy Ninja]

Please tell. :)

[mattograph]

Please tell. :)

Check you PMs! :)

[S.Horton]

I can see the threads now.....

"How can I be sure theres enough helium in my lens?"

"Opps, I inhaled all the gas in my lens, and now I sound like a gerbil -- am I gonna die?"

"Nikon uses better helium in their lens -- what gives?"

"24-70 or 24-105?" (no list is complete without it!)

Ok, nice title, nice avatar!

bw!

[mattograph]

Ok, nice title, nice avatar!

bw!

Thanks! It was a group effort. Your invaluable contribution was invaluable! :)

[S.Horton]

Hey, Ninja did the edit -- I just have a photo of a deceased animal which died in the most gruesome manner imaginable.

[S.Horton]

Unfortunately for TF, I was all over it the minute it happened. A quick check of "who's on" -- and VIola!


I now know the identity of TF!!!!

http://midnightblue.smugmug.com/photos/553929838_mvXne-L.jpg
(C) Skygod, no rights reserved, post in any thread you like to call the TF down.

[mattograph]

We lost a guinea pig the same way. One day, we woke up, and he looked like he ate a grapefruit.

Day later, he was in a shoe box. Reebok, if I remember correctly.

Our schnauzer was so sad. He stared at the aquarium for a year.

[Stealthy Ninja]

We lost a guinea pig the same way. One day, we woke up, and he looked like he ate a grapefruit.

Day later, he was in a shoe box. Reebok, if I remember correctly.

Our schnauzer was so sad. He stared at the aquarium for a year.

Ummm guinea pigs in an aquarium?! :shock: The fish probably murdered him. :twisted:

[mattograph]

The guinea pig wasn't in the aquarium. The fish were.

The dog's just stupid.

[Stealthy Ninja]

The guinea pig wasn't in the aquarium. The fish were.

The dog's just stupid.

:lol: Trying to cover up your bizzarre pet burial rituals are you?! :p :p

Anyway, back on topic.

Canon should be ashamed!!!

If they tried this earlier we may have gotten the 5Dmkii quicker. Shame on your ineptitude Canon!

[arnie12]

...
"Opps, I inhaled all the gas in my lens, and now I sound like a gerbil -- am I gonna die?"
...
Congrats.....

[RDKirk]

i can think of ****load of jobs here in the states where workers are required to stand the entire time while working. all fast food, factory, store, at&t store employees just to name a few. an alarm going off if you're walking too slow is a little weird but nothing to extreme.

'Way back when I was a pie driver for Dominos, that was certainly the rule. Actually the rule was, "Customers should always see you running."

[Stealthy Ninja]

^^ I found some footage of you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18KzwK5gMtA

[V8Rumble]

"The administrator has disabled Who's Online."

[swapnali]

Hoping Japanese Canon Workers Don’t Become the New Model for the Corporate World!

Read these articles & discussions

”Lets rush–if we don’t then the company and world will perish.” Those chilling Orwellian words are printed across the floors of a large Canon Electronics factory in Japan. A stark reminder to factory workers to pick up their pace, as they are nothing more than cogs in a machine who are easily replaced......" read more (http://chattahbox.com/business/2009/05/31/hoping-japanese-canon-workers-dont-become-the-new-model-for-the-corporate-world/)



"Mr. Sakamaki, President of Canon Electronics, wrote a book "Realizing A Company's Growth With Chairs & PCs Away."
I was strongly astonished at seeing that it really has no chair in office!...." Read More (http://www.linkedin.com/newsArticle?viewDiscussion=&articleID=37496430&gid=54168&trk=NUS_DIG_DISC_N_more&goback=%2Ehom)

[swapnali]

Yeah, I'm not buyin this story. It's like the guy a few posts ago suggested . . . a Nikon guy trying to stir the pot!! Maybe they're upset about the 5DMK2.
This story is also published in Japanese . see here. IEven if you can not read japanese, photos will tell you. and believe others who can read Japanese :)

http://www.linkedin.com/news?viewArticle=&articleID=37496430&gid=54168&articleURL=http%3A%2F%2Fitpro%2Enikkeibp%2Eco%2Ejp %2Farticle%2FOPINION%2F20090518%2F330168%2F&urlhash=4-3G&trk=NUS_DIG_DISC_N_title&goback=%2Ehom

[bmhana]

Yeah, actually I found it, too!
Interesting.

[swapnali]

see #11 post link to Japanese article. Its not nikon thing...

[dispatchermike21]

I have to agree a corp. looking for ways to be competitive in the world market and maybe even lead is a horrable thing just unthinkable I mean look at GM a leader in they field at one time they cartered to their union and employs and they have done what? went bankrupt.

[Stealthy Ninja]

This story is also published in Japanese . see here. IEven if you can not read japanese, photos will tell you. and believe others who can read Japanese :)

http://www.linkedin.com/news?viewArticle=&articleID=37496430&gid=54168&articleURL=http%3A%2F%2Fitpro%2Enikkeibp%2Eco%2Ejp %2Farticle%2FOPINION%2F20090518%2F330168%2F&urlhash=4-3G&trk=NUS_DIG_DISC_N_title&goback=%2Ehom

Needs a password...

[HYBEagle]

They should only have one bathroom as well. Cut down on those frills.

No no no, no bathroom !!! they should all just wear diapers.

[hawkeye60]

I have to agree a corp. looking for ways to be competitive in the world market and maybe even lead is a horrable thing just unthinkable I mean look at GM a leader in they field at one time they cartered to their union and employs and they have done what? went bankrupt.

In 2007 GM's president got a 64% pay increase to over $15 million, while the company lost $39 billion that same year. The other top executives got big increases too while the unions were making concessions. Oh, those d*mn unions!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN2534738420080425

Back on topic: there are plenty of jobs that require employees to be on their feet all day. But, requiring employees to move at a certain speed is a bit over the top IMHO.

[Tom Reichner]

Geez - I just read the OP's link. This is unbelievable. I guess heading out for a good cup of coffee and a 10 minute personal phone call is out of the question? It'd suck to work for Canon. Rules like that keep the very best and brightest from taking those jobs. Conversely, sometimes the best and brightest will work at a job that is far below their intelligence and earning power just because it provides a nice, relaxed working environment. I want the very best and the very brightest people to be working on my gear, and responding to my photographic needs. They're certainly not going to be found in this type of Nazzi-strict environment.

[mattograph]

In 2007 GM's president got a 64% pay increase to over $15 million, while the company lost $39 billion that same year. The other top executives got big increases too while the unions were making concessions. Oh, those d*mn unions!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN2534738420080425

Back on topic: there are plenty of jobs that require employees to be on their feet all day. But, requiring employees to move at a certain speed is a bit over the top IMHO.


That increase was due to valuation of STOCK OPTION GRANTS!!!!!

Todays value -- Zero!!!

An increase he never saw........

[CAL Imagery]

I have to agree a corp. looking for ways to be competitive in the world market and maybe even lead is a horrable thing just unthinkable I mean look at GM a leader in they field at one time they cartered to their union and employs and they have done what? went bankrupt.
But, but, the unions keep the workers from being exploited - just like from back in the day.
That increase was due to valuation of STOCK OPTION GRANTS!!!!!

Todays value -- Zero!!!

An increase he never saw........
Owned.

Gotta love how you can do anything with statistics: like try to slam the CEO without knowing why he got a raise.

[carianoff]

Yeah, I hate to be the one to not jump to conclusions, cause, you know, caution is boring, but......

1) Are we sure thats a picture of Canon? (no)
2) Are we sure the quotes are attributable? (no)
3) Did anyone else notice that this Danny guy does NIKON commercials? Is he like the the Ashton Kutcher of Asia? (and no.)

Long time Danny Choo follower here. He has been a avid Canon user for years. He worked on a project with Nikon and they just basically gave him one of each of their SLR's and lenses. He is in bed with them now, yes. But he was faithful to Canon for a long time.

[xxmxaxrxyxx]

that is crazy!

[chino79]

So do they have to jog on the spot while having a crap?
Imagine haw many sensors it would take to measure every square foot of company property.
Also they would have to be very special bit's of kit to measure movement of all employees, well except for the CEO that is.
This is a joke right?

[hawkeye60]

That increase was due to valuation of STOCK OPTION GRANTS!!!!!

Todays value -- Zero!!!

An increase he never saw........

Money is money regardless of what form it's in !!! The fact that today, GMs stock is worthless is exactly the point. The people responsible for the stock's decline got pay increases, supposedly based on performance, while they were losing money hand over fist.

My point is and was, you can't blame it all on the unions. Bad business decisions are always at the heart of it. There are no unions on Wall Street to blame for the failures, and the major players still got their bonuses before and after the bailout.

Again: all off topic so I'll quit now, have the last word if you like...

[CAL Imagery]

Money is money regardless of what form it's in !!! The fact that today, GMs stock is worthless is exactly the point. The people responsible for the stock's decline got pay increases, supposedly based on performance, while they were losing money hand over fist.

My point is and was, you can't blame it all on the unions. Bad business decisions are always at the heart of it. There are no unions on Wall Street to blame for the failures, and the major players still got their bonuses before and after the bailout.

Again: all off topic so I'll quit now, have the last word if you like...
Regardless of your point, you mentioned the executives made huge amounts of money without knowing why.

Secondly, in regard to WS, I blame the Federal Reserve and the politicians and lobbyists in Washington for the continuing financial failure.

[mattograph]

But he was faithful to Canon for a long time.

I'll try that one on my wife tonight.

"Sure I cheated on you honey, but I was faithful to you for a long time."

[Emenresu]

eh idont see the problem with standing, i do it for 9 hours a day at my job and its not bad

[carianoff]

I'll try that one on my wife tonight.

"Sure I cheated on you honey, but I was faithful to you for a long time."

Let me know the results.

[CAL Imagery]

I wouldn't say tradition, as it has only been within the last year the government has decided to help its Wall Street friends.

And as for your buddy, sounds more like a union problem.

I agree entirely with the unions. Although they want to sound like they help the working man, they only help the working man in that specific union.

[engineer45]

that's probably the most demeaning thing said in this thread yet. you're up in arms about selling all your gear because some high-paying engineering jobs at canon don't provide chairs, but you're fine with minimum wage workers treated the same way because that's their place in society?

how is it unethical and fascist for an engineer and not unethical and fascist for a fast food worker? i think you're really going to extremes with those two words, as human rights is no longer the issue in your argument. your expectations for a certain social class is.

Scientists and engineers make up less than 5% of the population but depending on the country are typically responsible for up to 50% of GDP. Engineering requires mathematical, scientific and technical knowledge (and the self discipline/intelligence needed to gain it). Any idiot can shovel coal.

[Stealthy Ninja]

Scientists and engineers make up less than 5% of the population but depending on the country are typically responsible for up to 50% of GDP. Engineering requires mathematical, scientific and technical knowledge (and the self discipline/intelligence needed to gain it). Any idiot can shovel coal.

But engineers can't shovel coal. They might break a nail or something.


:p

If you measure human worth by their intelligence/pay/status in society... I have nothing to say then.

"self discipline/intelligence needed to gain them" (or money/influence)

[dispatchermike21]

Scientists and engineers make up less than 5% of the population but depending on the country are typically responsible for up to 50% of GDP. Engineering requires mathematical, scientific and technical knowledge (and the self discipline/intelligence needed to gain it). Any idiot can shovel coal.

well you proved on thing to me you can shovel more then just coal.

[Stealthy Ninja]

well you proved on thing to me you can shovel more then just coal.

:lol: +1

[Alleh]

If most people weren't lazy slobs companies wouldn't have to create rules like these to keep production up. I have seen many times in the past employees who find a little nook where they can go sit down while on the clock spending sometimes over 10 hours a week just sitting in their hideout.

[Tom Reichner]

Scientists and engineers make up less than 5% of the population but depending on the country are typically responsible for up to 50% of GDP. Engineering requires mathematical, scientific and technical knowledge (and the self discipline/intelligence needed to gain it). Any idiot can shovel coal.

Hello, Engineer 45

I certainly hope you're not implying that people who shovel coal, dig ditches by hand, etc, are idiots. Some extremely intelligent people do manual labor for meagre pay. They simply want their great minds to be able to wander around to all kinds of fun places, instead of having to focus their thoughts on one thing for pay.

Conversely, not all engineers are of genius level intelligence.

[powerslave]

Intelligence is over-rated.

[Stealthy Ninja]

Intelligence is over-rated.

Bean smeart r ova rayted?

[dr1ft]

Obviously, this is how Canon can make those Ls super cheap. Right?

[10megapixel]

I've worked for 2 Japanese owned companies and I hated every minute of it. Both did not allow sitting down unless you were on break, absolutely no radios playing, timed bathroom breaks, and any conversation while working was frowned upon unless it was work-related. I never heard of the walking to slow thing though...:rolleyes: Nothing really surprises me when it comes to the Japanese.

[hofajoab]

Looks like yous need to keep on your toes to keep up with us Nikon boys lol: (j/k'ing)..

nah, that's pretty harsh.. at least give them a decent dress code.