Help, should I buy a good flash?

[Paul A]

I just retired and went berserk, I bought a 20D and a 100-400L is. I love nature photography and have been doing it for years but I understand very little beyound the basics. My question is this, with the new lens I find I can peer into bushes and capture birds that are reclusive and in very poor light. Would it be wise to buy a powerful flash to light up the subject? I'm wondering if it would cast a lot of shawdow? Any advise is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Paul

[mgbeach]

in that kind of application, I can only imagine that a hotshoe-mounted flash would cause some really harsh shadows. The 20D has such good high-ISO performance that you might want to just crank it up and see what the results are before buying a flash.

[snibbetsj]

You'd have to have a mighty powerful flash "light up" birds and such outside unless they're very close. Even the 580 EX has a guide number of 180' which reduces to 45' at f4. But if they're close enough, it will work fine, however, it may look rather unnatural.

But you should have an external flash for family shots etc. :D :D

[KevC]

Flashes are usually only good for acting as catchlights for nature photography. Maybe you can pick up a 420EX or Sigma EF500DG Super to play around with.

However, if you're not really interested in just the catchlights, cranking up the ISO and using a mono/tripod (if you're not already) is a far better way (and cheaper) too.

[Paul A]

Thanks for the tips, I appreciate it.
Paul

[robertwgross]

Just the other day I was doing this.

Snowy Egrets had a nest that was stuck back in the shadows of a palm tree. The nearest that I could stand was about 70-75 feet away. So, I stuck on about 800mm of lens, and then I lit it up as best I could with my 550EX. I cranked the ISO up to 800 or 1600, and that did the trick to fill the shadows. Plan A worked.

If that wouldn't work, then I had Plan B:
I had a bamboo pole that was about eight feet long. I was going to tape my 550EX (wireless slave mode) onto the end, and then support it closer to the nest. On the camera, I was going to use my STE2 as the wireless master.

If that didn't work, then I was thinking about Plan C:
Small yield nuclear detonation.
That should have a guide number of about a million.

---Bob Gross---

[iof]

Has anybody tried this: http://www.naturephotographers.net/gs/gsbb.html ?

I’ve been looking at it for over a year and have yet to decide whether it’s a gimmick or a serious tool. And it's a lot less destructive than the nuke option.

[robertwgross]

When I arrived at the Snowy Egret nest site, the other Canon shooter that was just leaving had been using a Better Beamer, if that tells you anything. Apparently, it takes a lot of tweaking.

I haven't seen his results, so I can't say which works best.

Tactical nuclear weapons are just misunderstood.

---Bob Gross---

[Todd Jacobsen]

When I arrived at the Snowy Egret nest site, the other Canon shooter that was just leaving had been using a Better Beamer, if that tells you anything. Apparently, it takes a lot of tweaking.

I haven't seen his results, so I can't say which works best.

Tactical nuclear weapons are just misunderstood.

---Bob Gross---

It probably still wouldn't reach but have you ever used a Snoot on the flash? I have the Lumiquest flash snoot and was wondering what the potential range is. 550 w/Snoot should reach 75 ft (I think).

The Frenel lens (Better Beamer) re-projects the light forward and removes the dispersion for which the flash lens was developed to do. The Snoot forces (bounces)the lens dispersed light through the narrow openning. The light from the Snoot will not be as "clean" as from the Better Beamer since the light is not "re-focused" (which causes some loss) forward, but "forced" forward (more loss due to light dispersing evenly through narrow openning).

[robertwgross]

It probably still wouldn't reach but have you ever used a Snoot on the flash? I have the Lumiquest flash snoot and was wondering what the potential range is. 550 w/Snoot should reach 75 ft (I think).

The Frenel lens (Better Beamer) re-projects the light forward and removes the dispersion for which the flash lens was developed to do. The Snoot forces (bounces)the lens dispersed light through the narrow openning. The light from the Snoot will not be as "clean" as from the Better Beamer since the light is not "re-focused" (which causes some loss) forward, but "forced" forward (more loss due to light dispersing evenly through narrow openning).

I would think that a Snoot only allows light through a narrower opening. Therefore, it does not add or subtract from the potential light range. A better term to use would be the effective flash range.

The Better Beamer uses a Fresnel lens to help focus the light, but I can't say how good or bad it works.

The 550EX Guide number is 55 meters at ISO 100 for a long lens. I think I was shooting at f/8, so that is about 7 meters at ISO 100, which would be about 28 meters at ISO 1600. That's just about the situation I was in.

---Bob Gross---

[PhotosGuy]

Better Beamer Vivitar made WA & Tele "lenses" for the 283's. Wish I could find mine!

[Perfect_10]

Vivitar made WA & Tele "lenses" for the 283's. Wish I could find mine!
That's why I grabbed the 285 .. it's part of the head .. nothing to misplace .. ;)

[DavidEB]

Paul's question was about peering into the bushes -- I've tried it once. The intervening branches cast large shadows. The closer the branch, the larger the shadow. I ended up with a really ugly picture.

David

[Bamamike]

I bought the "better beamer" and I can tell you that this thing is working. If you go beyond 400mm it's the one and only solution. If it is the smartest one for your specific boundary conditions, only you can tell.

[AJ Montgomery]

I use my 580EX frequently for fill flash when birds are "embedded" in dark areas and find that I have great results. I have found that I must use manual or compensate the auto TTL to +1 to achieve the desired results.

Here is one sample: (note the shadows on the LH tree are barely visible.)
This was shot from over 100' with the 20D, EF 70-200 F/4L with EF 1.4x II and the 580EX
http://www.kajmonty.com/gallery/albums/Post/IMG_4123a.sized.jpg

[iof]

The photo of the flicker is great AJ. What mode did you use? Settings? FP flash? Enquiring minds would like to know. Would you like to share?

[mbze430]

if you shooting from beyond 200 to 400mm FOV, you'll need a flash extender. They seem to work quite good from some of the people that have been using them.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Has anybody tried this: http://www.naturephotographers.net/gs/gsbb.html ?

I’ve been looking at it for over a year and have yet to decide whether it’s a gimmick or a serious tool. And it's a lot less destructive than the nuke option.

Yep,. this is the way to go for using flash with a tele..

[defordphoto]

Uses the same concept (fresnel lens) that lighthouses use. In a lighthouse you can run a 100 watt lightbulb and it'll be visible for 3 miles. So, no, this is not a gimmick.

[iof]

Thanks guys. It now goes on the list of things I didn't know existed before I started reading this forum and now realize I can't live without.

[AJ Montgomery]

The photo of the flicker is great AJ. What mode did you use? Settings? FP flash? Enquiring minds would like to know. Would you like to share?
Here is the EXIF:
Model = Canon EOS 20D
Exposure Time = 1/250"
F Number = F5.6
Exposure Program = Manual
ISO Speed Ratings = 200
Date Time Original = 2005-05-02 12:50:58
Shutter Speed Value = 7.97 TV
Aperture Value = 4.97 AV
Exposure Bias Value = 0EV
Metering Mode = Partial
Flash = Flash fired, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 280mm

To the best of my recolection, the flash was likely set to ETTL +1.0

[iof]

Here is the EXIF:


Thanks AJ. Man, I'm thankin everyone today. Must have learned something. Good day.

[etaf]

on one of the other photographic websites - one of the members has a 20D with the 100-400L and has a hide in the garden and is posting some fantastic bird photos - i'm sure you will be very pleased with that setup for nature photography.

I'm sure there are also some fantastic shots on this site - i just dont know my around this site and the members as well.
so i hope you dont mind me posting the link to another site
http://www.dpforums.com/dpgallery/showgallery.php?cat=all&ppuser=931