Police vs. photographers - info

[CannedHeat]

FYI

In the new issue of PhotographyBB Magazine (http://www.photographybb.com/) #16 (free), there is a good article about the police vs. photographer issue written from a different perspective - by a person involved in both fields. It also contains a "know your rights" section that seem to contain more detail than other sources.

A good read, also something you may want to print and keep in the camera bag.

[strmrdr]

Thanks for the link
kewl magazine.

I have had people arrested when I was working security that a simple I'm sorry and leaving the private property would have resolved in 30 seconds. 1 or 2 were photographers.
If they had been nice I would have told them how they could have got the same shots legally. (there was a photography club that came out and shot twice a month during the spring and fall, with permission)
They didn't care about people taking photos, liability was the problem.

Another site was dod and anyone trespassing was arrested but no one was dumb enough to try it while I was there.
There you could get detained for shooting thru the fence and it was posted.
Never had any problems there.

[sfaust]

Having spent 7 years in law enforcement early on, his advice is pretty much on target. Being confrontational is counter productive, and causes more issues than not. In fact, thinking back, people I gave a break to were always easy going and non-confrontational. Those that argued always seemed to get the short end of the stick. Human nature I guess ;)

And yea, many officers don't know all the laws, and could be wrong. But arguing with him isn't the way to resolve it. I can see the guy all pissed off waving a piece of printed paper with text they got on the internet claiming they know the law, their rights, etc. Yea, like that's going to work! If its from the internet, its got to be true ;)

My advice would be to be polite, courteous, and comply. Ask questions, sure, but that doesn't mean you need to argue over it. Ask for a supervisor to be dispatched, and again calmly state your case. If that doesn't work, and you can't get someone higher up involved, just comply and follow up with a phone call to their supervisor, and keep climbing the chain until you get satisfaction. Eventually, you'll find calmer heads that will work with you to resolve the issue.

If you think there is a possibility of a confrontation before you go to the site, call the film board if you are in a large city and get a permit (usually a small nominal fee if any). That will get you off the hook in many cases right off the bat. It's easy, and the process is set in place for commercial photographers, film crews, etc. They typical concern is liability for a small crew, and they just want to know you have liability insurance. For larger crews, they may want you to have security and such. This is mostly for movie crews, or when shooting in the streets, bridges, large public areas, etc.

It's a minor inconvenience, but puts the whole confrontation issue to rest.

[Gentleman Villain]

I started to read the article until getting to the part about "being confrontational just makes matters worse"

What he really means is..."STFU slave"

[Gentleman Villain]

And yea, many officers don't know all the laws, and could be wrong. But arguing with him isn't the way to resolve it.


"That's right...Don't argue slave....even though I don't know the law you're gonna listen to me anyway... cuz I've got a badge and a gun"

Great attitude...and people wonder why citizens are getting angry

[DennisW1]

"That's right...Don't argue slave....even though I don't know the law you're gonna listen to me anyway... cuz I've got a badge and a gun"

Great attitude...and people wonder why citizens are getting angry


While it's a bit of a cynical attitude, there's some truth to your comments.

It might not be a pleasant fact of life to accept, but starting an argument or being confrontational with a man (or woman) with a badge, gun, authority, and an attitude of power isn't going to come out well for you, even if you're in the right.

**Most** people in law enforcement are not bullies with guns and badges. There are always the exceptions, but the comments above from those who are or were officers seem to confirm the fact that you'll get a lot farther by acting in a mature, professional and cooperative manner than with a bad attitude.

[sfaust]

"That's right...Don't argue slave....even though I don't know the law you're gonna listen to me anyway... cuz I've got a badge and a gun"

Great attitude...and people wonder why citizens are getting angry

I can see you thrive on confrontation :)

I'll still get satisfaction without confrontation. Like I said, I'll ask for a supervisor to resolve it. I'll go over his head and find the person that does know the laws and will tell him to back down. If that doesn't work, I'll drive to the station and go higher, rather than be brought to the station in cuffs and trying to resolve it that way. People tend to listen better to people that are rational, and less so fro people in cuffs screaming about how they know their rights waving a printout from the internet ;)

There are many ways to solve the problem, some more effective than others.

[breal101]

I can see you thrive on confrontation :)

I'll still get satisfaction without confrontation. Like I said, I'll ask for a supervisor to resolve it. I'll go over his head and find the person that does know the laws and will tell him to back down. If that doesn't work, I'll drive to the station and go higher, rather than be brought to the station in cuffs and trying to resolve it that way. People tend to listen better to people that are rational, and less so fro people in cuffs screaming about how they know their rights waving a printout from the internet ;)

There are many ways to solve the problem, some more effective than others.

I agree, a lawyer friend who does a lot of police brutality cases once told me to never argue the fine points of the law with a cop on the side of the road. He has the power.

[alabama1980]

I agree, a lawyer friend who does a lot of police brutality cases once told me to never argue the fine points of the law with a cop on the side of the road. He has the power.
Amen to that. Cop's are not lawyers. Your best bet is to kill them with kindness and then go over them until the situation is resolved.

As much as some people would like to gather at city hall with torches and pitchforks that isn't the way to handle the situation. A confrontation with an officer will never end well for you.

I've only had one "run in" with an officer regarding my photography and once he realized that I was just doing my thing and not bothering a soul he was cooler than the other side of the pillow.

Fighting for your rights isn't always about being loud and rowdy.

[CyberDyneSystems]

...

**Most** people in law enforcement are not bullies with guns and badges. There are always the exceptions, but the comments above from those who are or were officers seem to confirm the fact that you'll get a lot farther by acting in a mature, professional and cooperative manner than with a bad attitude.

Exactly.




We are living in a society that requires a branch of enforcement to maintain the laws under which that society thrives.
We are all part of this society, and must if we are to reap the benifits, go along with the legal structure.

Enforcement is that, and only that. One can not expect them to be experts on all aspects of the law. If they were, they may likely be getting paid a lot more to be a judge or lawyer.

If you do not feel the need to "respect" them, that;s your own call, but it's a damn good idea to remember that they are here doing the job that our society asks of them, and fully grasp the fact that yes, we have given them the authority to act, that we have put them in a position of power over us while we are "in the field".

Working within those known aspects of our societies legal system is hardly "slavery", it is a choice we make when we opt to live within this society and reap it's benefits.
In fact I find the use of the term to describe this choice offensive.

[CannedHeat]

... they are here doing the job that our society asks of them,...

... a job that is extremely dangerous and stressful and pays a hell-of-a lot less than somebody that dribbles a ball or sings into a microphone.

On the other hand, I'm wondering...

If you're laying on the ground getting your head and body kicked in by a group of people, and a cop comes along and stops them, do you then look up and see a "slavemaster?"

Me? I think I'd be seeing a saint.

[bcordell]

I've been approached by more than a few cops while shooting. Most of these encounters were taking photos in or around abandoned buildings/houses.

Every single time I greeted the officer with a handshake and calmly explained what I was doing. Most IMPORTANTLY I listened to the officer and answered his/her questions without confrontation.

Even though I was technically trespassing, they all left me alone to finish my work. There is really no point in confronting an officer especially with little or no provocation.

Also, I don't exactly "look cop friendly". I have almost my entire visible body tattooed, including the top and sides of my hands, knuckles, palm, the side of my neck etc. I can almost guarantee that if I confronted the officer in a loud or aggressive manner, I would have been considered a "threat".


Why is it hard to be kind to a stranger?

[Tomi Hawk]

I can almost guarantee that if I confronted the officer in a loud or aggressive manner, I would have been considered a "threat".
and prolly maised ... :p
Why is it hard to be kind to a stranger?
because we don't know them .. ?

It's really weird .. the guy infronta you in your car is a JERK !! (you can yell at him)
But the guy in line at your local Von's or Safeway, well, you can't YELL at him ..
it's more of a headshake from side-side, along with mayyybe an under-your-breath mumble, jerk ...:p

[bcordell]

because we don't know them .. ?


true... but I don't know you. I wouldn't sit here and talk to you like a jerk because its common courtesy.

Police officers put their life on the line for us, granted not all of them are good people but we shouldn't treat them all like their criminals or *******s. Just my .02

p.s. the situation definitely changes if an officer arrives on scene and immediately tries to restrain you, or take your camera.

[pworm14]

cooler than the other side of the pillow



LOL.... I'll have to remember that one.. Thanks alalbama1980

[darosk]

true... but I don't know you. I wouldn't sit here and talk to you like a jerk because its common courtesy.

Kindness to strangers is hard, especially in countries and cultures where all kids are told that strangers are predators, not to take candy from strange people etc etc.

Sad to see that it's hard for anyone to trust their fellow man anymore.

But to be honest - it really isn't that hard to be kind and courteous. Some of you should try it ~ apparently it's good for your health and reduces the risk of heart disease.

[john-in-japan]

Seen This?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009314131_websettlement08m.html
John

[eyelookok2blindgurls]

I have never had any problems with police whislt doing any photography jobs , quite the opposite , they have generally been very helpful even keeping watch on my gearbags etc for me when I'm taking pics , I was covering a cycling even't and a police officer was assigned to watch my gear .
If you explain things nicely to them they gennerally seem to treat you very well , they are only doing their job and must get sick of people that continually argue with them .

[asysin2leads]

I don't care who you are, if you give respect, you get respect. That was taught to us at the earliest of ages. We had a little saying in the military that appropriately applies, "Salute the rank, not the man." There are those in society, that we are to respect. Not necessarily like, but respect. I have a boss that is probably one of the biggest idiots that ever drew a breath; however, I have to respect her in just that capacity. She was placed in that capacity beyond my control. The same goes with police officers. There is a certain amount of respect that goes along with strapping on the bullet proof vest and having people shoot at you. The really pissy thing is, that some cops are shot simply because they're cops. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Respect that! The police do a dangerous and unthinkable job everyday and wouldn't have it any other way. Robert DeNiro said it best in "Righteous Kill." Cops protect the 90% from the 10%.

I have found that the person who bitches and moans most about the cops are the ones who just got busted doing something they shouldn't have been.

[bcordell]

I have found that the person who bitches and moans most about the cops are the ones who just got busted doing something they shouldn't have been.

You took the words right out of my mouth :cool:

[radloser]

While it's a bit of a cynical attitude, there's some truth to your comments.

It might not be a pleasant fact of life to accept, but starting an argument or being confrontational with a man (or woman) with a badge, gun, authority, and an attitude of power isn't going to come out well for you, even if you're in the right.

**Most** people in law enforcement are not bullies with guns and badges. There are always the exceptions, but the comments above from those who are or were officers seem to confirm the fact that you'll get a lot farther by acting in a mature, professional and cooperative manner than with a bad attitude.

Thank you for your input on this one. Being a 12 year police veteran from a medium sized municipality, it's nice to hear there are some reasonable people who don't consider all cops bullies. No matter who you are though, you're not going to win an argument with a cop. Before you are confronted he or she is most likely going to know the law before they start preaching it.

[gecko3s]

Exactly.




We are living in a society that requires a branch of enforcement to maintain the laws under which that society thrives.
We are all part of this society, and must if we are to reap the benifits, go along with the legal structure.

Enforcement is that, and only that. One can not expect them to be experts on all aspects of the law. If they were, they may likely be getting paid a lot more to be a judge or lawyer.

If you do not feel the need to "respect" them, that;s your own call, but it's a damn good idea to remember that they are here doing the job that our society asks of them, and fully grasp the fact that yes, we have given them the authority to act, that we have put them in a position of power over us while we are "in the field".

Working within those known aspects of our societies legal system is hardly "slavery", it is a choice we make when we opt to live within this society and reap it's benefits.
In fact I find the use of the term to describe this choice offensive.


Thank you.