Ball head capable of precision movements

[siejones]

I am looking for a new ball head and up to yet I have always frustrated by the lack of precision movement they have.

I want to be able to tighten to the point that the camera is not moving by it's own weight then be able to make small adjustments to my composition by a little more exertion of force in any direction. Up until now both the Manfrotto 486rc2 and the Gitzo GH1780 has failed to live up to my expectations. It's either jerky movements or too loose for precision with no point in between.

Surely this is not too much to ask? Isn't this a requirement of any serious photographer?

I don't really have to the Arcaswiss silly prices to have this kind of control in a ballhead do I?

Geared heads are to slow and heavy.

I have looked seriously at the Kirk BH-3 which is more than I would like to pay to be honest. Would this head live up to my expectations?

[TaDa]

My Arca head is pretty damned precise, but it's still not as precise as a pan-tilt head. My Arca head is awesome, but you're going to fiddle with a ballhead a little more than a pan to get that perfect framing.

[tvphotog]

Markins ballheads. Any of their ballheads.

Read this review. Note comparison with larger and more expensive ones.:

http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/non-nikon_articles/markins/

BTW, the 486 ballhead is for lightweight cameras. It has a relatively small ball and only an on-off lock, not a tension control as does the Markins and other higher end heads. Price may be related to this second control.

[siejones]

My Arca head is pretty damned precise, but it's still not as precise as a pan-tilt head. My Arca head is awesome, but you're going to fiddle with a ballhead a little more than a pan to get that perfect framing.

Thanks yeah I got a pan and tilt head as well and although it has the precision it really is a chore with the 3 adjusters constantly having to be un/tightened.

You see so many pro landscape photographers using and swearing by ball heads that it makes me wonder if given the right one I would never look back on the pan and tilt option.

[TaDa]

Like i said, I adore my Arca head, and could never go back to a pan tilt head, it's just the nature of the beast since a ballhead can move in so many different directions. When I say "fiddle to get the perfect framing", I'm talking about seconds, not minutes.

[siejones]

Markins ballheads. Any of their ballheads.

Read this review. Note comparison with larger and more expensive ones.:

http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/non-nikon_articles/markins/

BTW, the 486 ballhead is for lightweight cameras. It has a relatively small ball and only an on-off lock, not a tension control as does the Markins and other higher end heads. Price may be related to this second control.

I have seriously looked at the markins Q3 but it seems there are little to no dealers over in the UK that sell them. Down the line I would buying camera/ lens specific plates e.t.c and it would be nice to not have to import everytime.

Warehouseexpress.co.uk sells the Kirk line which I why I made it a preference.

[siejones]

Like i said, I adore my Arca head, and could never go back to a pan tilt head, it's just the nature of the beast since a ballhead can move in so many different directions. When I say "fiddle to get the perfect framing", I'm talking about seconds, not minutes.

Yeah I am sure your right and as much as I would love to own an Arca B1 it's just to much dollar for me to justify. Surely this can't be the only range that's capable of such precision?

[squiress]

Critical to smooth (precise?) ball mount movement is the size of the ball. The larger the ball the smoother movement could be (still issues with materials of course). Even my Benro KB-2 is fairly smooth because it has a decent size ball, whereas my Gitzo off axis head has a tiny ball and is best used simply clamped down.

[siejones]

Critical to smooth (precise?) ball mount movement is the size of the ball. The larger the ball the smoother movement could be (still issues with materials of course). Even my Benro KB-2 is fairly smooth because it has a decent size ball, whereas my Gitzo off axis head has a tiny ball and is best used simply clamped down.

I initially thought this maybe the case and looked at just upgrading to the manfrotto 488rc4 which would have a bigger ball. Reading reviews I found that it suffered the same problem (maybe to a lesser degree I don't know) and the reviewer claimed it was no capable of precision (smooth and tight) movement :(

[jhom]

Since price and availability is an issue, I would suggest you look at the Manfrotto 468MG. It is a very good ballhead that will clearly give you more control. On the other hand, if you are looking for a ballhead that you won't need to replace for a long while, I would suggest the Markins, or RRS. They are better ballheads. The better ballheads give you the features your are asking for. Yes, it cost more for a better product.

[puggle]

In my opinion, the best ballhead is the Really Right Stuff - BH-55.

http://reallyrightstuff.com/ballheads/02.html

It is outstanding in quality and performance.

One thing though, it's pricey, but I believe it's worth it.

[siejones]

Since price and availability is an issue, I would suggest you look at the Manfrotto 468MG. It is a very good ballhead that will clearly give you more control. On the other hand, if you are looking for a ballhead that you won't need to replace for a long while, I would suggest the Markins, or RRS. They are better ballheads. The better ballheads give you the features your are asking for. Yes, it cost more for a better product.

I have looked at the hydrostatic ballheads but can find little information on the net about them.

Of coarse I understand the the more expensive products will generally be better (isn't that always the case?) but is there not a medium price range head capable of precision movement? This is why I mentioned the Kirk BH-3.

[summerwind4]

+2 for the Markins...........pretty sure they can accomodate you too.......well worth the price and wait.
once you use it you will never have doubts as to your decision.
very very smooth

[TaDa]

I bought my B1 used off of FM for $200. If you look, you can find them. I was quite happy with being able to buy a quality ballhead for the price.

[siejones]

I bought my B1 used off of FM for $200. If you look, you can find them. I was quite happy with being able to buy a quality ballhead for the price.

I would be happy to get a second hand one if I could find one. I have been scouring ebay with no joy :(

[jhom]

I have looked at the hydrostatic ballheads but can find little information on the net about them.

Of coarse I understand the the more expensive products will generally be better (isn't that always the case?) but is there not a medium price range head capable of precision movement? This is why I mentioned the Kirk BH-3.

From my experience, I don't think there is a medium priced ballhead that will give you what you want. I've been there and have spent the money to find out. I started with a 486 and then moved on to the 488. The 488 is one that is most often recommended. It does a good job for what it is worth. However, it does not give you what the higher grade ballheads have, smoothness, stability, precision, and convenience.

I had the 486MG for several years. It is a very good ballhead intermediate to the better ballheads. The 486MG will give you stability, additional precision, but lacks smoothness and convenience. I even added an RRS level clamp to the 486MG. It gave me convenience. It lacks the better precision control of the better ballheads such as Markins and RRS. It is also a bit heavier.

Once you move to the higher but more costly ballheads, you then see the integration of all the features you want. So the choice is spend the money and learn from your mistakes like I have or spend the money right initially and be happy.

Correction: 468MG not 486MG

[bohdank]

For what you are asking you are probably better off getting something like this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124665-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_410_410_Junior_Geared_H ead.html

[squiress]

For what you are asking you are probably better off getting something like this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124665-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_410_410_Junior_Geared_H ead.html

I haven't used my 410 for a long time. :D Nice head, but I don't think it's the kind of smooth OP is talking about. Perhaps it's time to move away from Manfrotto. I don't know that I see even the Chinese copying their designs. That must mean something. :lol:

[bohdank]

That explains all the Canon hood and grip knockoffs. If they can make a buck, easier on overprcied goods :-)

[squiress]

Off topic - I dropped a 30D on to concrete with an Opteka grip (short drop). It landed on the grip (thank goodness - saved the camera). Doesn't work anymore and I replaced it with Canon. Like the Canon design quite a bit better to be honest. I have the knock-off hoods on every lens that didn't come with one from Canon. They are all great!

[rdricks]

I like the ballheads, but when I want precision I use the 410 geared head bohdank linked to. It is my go-to head for landscapes.

[siejones]

From my experience, I don't think there is a medium priced ballhead that will give you what you want. I've been there and have spent the money to find out. I started with a 486 and then moved on to the 488. The 488 is one that is most often recommended. It does a good job for what it is worth. However, it does not give you what the higher grade ballheads have, smoothness, stability, precision, and convenience.

I had the 486MG for several years. It is a very good ballhead intermediate to the better ballheads. The 486MG will give you stability, additional precision, but lacks smoothness and convenience. I even added an RRS level clamp to the 486MG. It gave me convenience. It lacks the better precision control of the better ballheads such as Markins and RRS. It is also a bit heavier.

Once you move to the higher but more costly ballheads, you then see the integration of all the features you want. So the choice is spend the money and learn from your mistakes like I have or spend the money right initially and be happy.

Thanks your explanation helps a lot :D

Something I have learnt about todays product market is that with most products you can say that to get the best you have to pay.But sometimes certains lines of products have flagships that are unecessary and the the budget or midrange would have just done the job fine. Manufacturers love us to believe that the "more it is expensive the better" too sometimes sell us over the top products. This is something I am very wary of these days.

It's always nice to find someone else has gone through the learning and expense before you so they can save you the hassle ;)

[René Damkot]

For what you are asking you are probably better off getting something like this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124665-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_410_410_Junior_Geared_H ead.html

Few drawbacks:

Heavy
slow
feels coarse
No arca swiss plate


I have a Markins M10. Tried an RRS BH-55 once, and IMO the Markins is smoother.

[bohdank]

heavy... yes... might not be important to the OP or others that may be interested in the same solution

slow.... I believe the OP shoots landscape and, no matter what one uses, fine deliberate movements will be slow.

feels coarse..... don't own one... feels and is are not always the same thing

Ya, like all the Markins owners using RRS lever clamps which are not Arca Swiss Compatible, other than maybe Wimberly. :-)

Still, all valid considerations.

[Lowner]

It is possible that what you are looking for does not exist!

Geared pan and tilt heads would seem to come closest to the control required, but there is no free lunch, a gain in one area means theres a price to pay and that price is the size and clumsyness.

I am a fervent Markins supporter, having moved to my M10 in total frustration from a Manfrotto 486RC2. I will talk all day about the M10 and it's wonderful "sweet-spot", which sounds like what you are looking for. But even the M10 has limits.

No system relying on friction to stop movement can then allow fine tuning without some "bounce", its just physically impossible. Markins have taken the ballhead as far down that road as they can with the M10 and M20, and done a superb job, but do not expect miracles.

[katodog]

Cullman Magnesit 35Nm. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/511750-REG/Cullmann_CU_40200_Magnesit_35_Nm_Ballhead.html)

Light, smooth, great tension adjustment. Sure it might be slow, depending on how tight you have the tension, but you really aren't going to find fast and precise in the same package and have it hold a lot of weight. You can remove the Cullman QR saddle and put on whatever you want; Arca-Swiss, RRS, etc..

The Cullman can hold up to 66 pounds, and no matter how much tension you put on it it is always smooth. I can put a gripped body and Sig 150-500mm on it, unlock the lock knob and only going by tension adjustments get it so the gear doesn't slip, but I still have the ability to move it. It'll hold the weight at an angle without being locked. It'll hold a pair of Stellarvue 20x85mm binoculars (which are actually 100mm binos stopped down to 85mm), and it'll hold a macro rail and a gripped body/180mm macro as well.

It's a great ball head, not expensive, and very versatile. The only drawback is that it's almost the size of a pop can, and it does look a little odd on some tripods.



The only other thing that would be suitable, but maybe wouldn't make precise movements, is a Gimbal head. You can have it as loose as you want and swing it all over the place, and the gear isn't going to come off. Here you get fast, and maybe with practice some precision. The drawback is the size and the weight, but you can find great Gimbals on eBay pretty cheap. I have one, and so do a lot of members here, and so far everyone has been pleased from what I can see.

[condyk]

I have seriously looked at the markins Q3 but it seems there are little to no dealers over in the UK that sell them. Down the line I would buying camera/ lens specific plates e.t.c and it would be nice to not have to import everytime.


Since price and availability is an issue, I would suggest you look at the Manfrotto 468MG. It is a very good ballhead that will clearly give you more control. On the other hand, if you are looking for a ballhead that you won't need to replace for a long while, I would suggest the Markins, or RRS. They are better ballheads. The better ballheads give you the features your are asking for. Yes, it cost more for a better product.

Had the 468Mg and is very good but a bit weighty and as Jhom says lacks a tad over the Markins. I now have the Q3 which does what you want. I can use it with the BigMos and still have fine adjustment. I imported mine from an eBay seller in Korea for a decent price. It'll take standard Arca plates. You don't need to import them. I have three different plates and all fine.

[Lowner]

Siejones,

Sounds to me as though you need to try out some of the alternatives that have been suggested.

I don't know where in the UK you live, but there must be 'togs here that live close enough to you? I'm in Salisbury (Wiltshire) and would be happy to let you loose with my M10 and RRS clamps/plates.

[siejones]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and advice :)

It is possible that what you are looking for does not exist!

Geared pan and tilt heads would seem to come closest to the control required, but there is no free lunch, a gain in one area means theres a price to pay and that price is the size and clumsyness.

I am a fervent Markins supporter, having moved to my M10 in total frustration from a Manfrotto 486RC2. I will talk all day about the M10 and it's wonderful "sweet-spot", which sounds like what you are looking for. But even the M10 has limits.

No system relying on friction to stop movement can then allow fine tuning without some "bounce", its just physically impossible. Markins have taken the ballhead as far down that road as they can with the M10 and M20, and done a superb job, but do not expect miracles.

I don't expect perfect precision movements (although that would be really nice) just better ones that last would be good. Every ball head I have had upto yet starts of smoothish under tension (enough to hold camera) but over time get worse and worse. My 486rc2 has become an on/off switch now and my gitzo (on my alternative superlight weight setup) is getting worse as well.

Had the 468Mg and is very good but a bit weighty and as Jhom says lacks a tad over the Markins. I now have the Q3 which does what you want. I can use it with the BigMos and still have fine adjustment. I imported mine from an eBay seller in Korea for a decent price. It'll take standard Arca plates. You don't need to import them. I have three different plates and all fine.

I saw the Q3 advertised from Korea as well but the price just seemed to good to be true with free P&P.

Is this similar to the when you brought?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Markins-Q3-Emille-Tripod-Ball-Head-Black-Ballhead_W0QQitemZ130310631243QQcmdZViewItemQQptZL H_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e571e6f4b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C 240%3A1308%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Siejones,

Sounds to me as though you need to try out some of the alternatives that have been suggested.

I don't know where in the UK you live, but there must be 'togs here that live close enough to you? I'm in Salisbury (Wiltshire) and would be happy to let you loose with my M10 and RRS clamps/plates.

All my friends are not as photography obsessed as me and don't have the equipment for me to play with.

I am from Wolverhampton so your a little far away but thanks very much for the offer :)

Where did you buy your markins from?

[w8jy]

+1 for the Cullman Magnesit 35Nm.

Not only is this head a real bargain at this price, it is the only head I have used that can handle the weight of a gripped 5D, a 100-400 zoom and still allow adjustments while holding the camera and lens solidly. It has a separate pan knob and if you adjust the main friction knob properly, you can still make minor adjustments without the camera slipping.

It is a really large head, and not one of the "IN"" brand names, so it is rarely mentioned in the POTN forums. One heck of a buy at the price.

[Lowner]

My Markins M10 came from the Nikonians Prophoto outlet in Germany, while the RRS kit had to come from the manufacturer in the US. Markins are a Korean based company.

Going back to your complaint about ther 486 acting like an ON/OFF switch. I improved mine 1000% by stripping it down and polishing the wear on the cone shaped alloy base. This had become very rough over time and I used T Cut and brasso with a liberal dose of elbow grease to bring a smooth, shiny surface back. The dent that remained was smooth and it actually holds the ball better than the original plain conical section. I now use it on my monopod, but without the RC2 clamp, which I never learnt to trust.

[rklepper]

The Kirk will meet and exceed your expectations. It is a great ballhead.

[siejones]

My Markins M10 came from the Nikonians Prophoto outlet in Germany, while the RRS kit had to come from the manufacturer in the US. Markins are a Korean based company.

Going back to your complaint about ther 486 acting like an ON/OFF switch. I improved mine 1000% by stripping it down and polishing the wear on the cone shaped alloy base. This had become very rough over time and I used T Cut and brasso with a liberal dose of elbow grease to bring a smooth, shiny surface back. The dent that remained was smooth and it actually holds the ball better than the original plain conical section. I now use it on my monopod, but without the RC2 clamp, which I never learnt to trust.

I tried to dismantle my 486 but I just couldn't get the base plate away from the body.

The Rc2 plate just rotates too easily for me which was another reason why I wanted to move away from it.


The Kirk will meet and exceed your expectations. It is a great ballhead.

I have decided and purchased the Kirk now mainly because of ease of supply more than anything else. It became a toss up between the it and the arca swiss Z1 but I read a few worrying things about the Z1 and it's glued on connection to the quick release and how it had failed it some circumstances.

[Lowner]

The base plate of the 486 is the body. The outer fancy cover acts as a ram, forcing the ball down onto the body.

To dismantle, carefully remove the oblong 486 label (it will stick back on provided it's kept clean). Behind it you should find a screw head. Remove that and the whole thing should be easy to pull apart. Manfrotto do diagrams of all their kit on their web site which helps a lot.