Panorama: What are my options?

[olz]

Hello

I want to do higher resolution and wider landscapes than my 20D+17-40mm f/4 combo allows me. I love my 17-40mm, and don't wan't another lens (like the 10-22) as I will probably go full-frame sometime.

This means stitching several frames - right?

Current equipment:
Manfrotto 055Pro
Manfrotto 486 Rc2

So far from my research I see tree options:

1) Buy something like the Nodal Ninja (http://www.nodalninja.com/)
2) Buy something to:

Level off the Camera: (http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfrotto/cache/offonce/pid/3209) or (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554092-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_338_338_QTVR_Leveling_B ase.html) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554092-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_338_338_QTVR_Leveling_B ase.html)
Something to control the horizontal movement: (http://www.amazon.com/Bogen-300N-Panoramic-Head/dp/B000FFIYM6)
Some kind of nodal point adapter.3) Buy a slightly better ball head with a horizontal lock, and see how far it takes me.

I appreciate any help, links etc. Thanks!

[SkipD]

If you want to take single-row panoramics, the Manfrotto 488RC2 would be a good choice.

Then, if you are shooting panoramics with foreground objects, you will want a device that will allow the camera to be mounted a bit differently on the head so that the pivot is at the "nodal point" of the lens. That will avoid the problems with parallax. I have found that a Manfrotto 3419 focusing rail (with a couple of accessories and a simple mod) does fairly well for positioning the camera on the head. I am planning to build a somewhat more versatile (more adjustment, that is) nodal point adapter for my setup.

[olz]

Thanks for taking the time Skip!

The 488RC2 was what I meant by "something slightly better than the 486RC2" :)

I think that single row will do @ 17mm as long as the camera is in horizontal mode. I forgot to mention that I have a Manfrotto L bracket, that I got as part in a second hand deal several years ago but never used. If I included a focusing rail, and a bubble level to the hot-shoe, I guess that would do.

Something like this without the 300N: http://www.flickr.com/photos/victormk1/2767895754/in/photostream/

[SkipD]

Thanks for taking the time Skip!

The 488RC2 was what I meant by "something slightly better than the 486RC2" :)

I think that single row will do @ 17mm as long as the camera is in horizontal mode. I forgot to mention that I have a Manfrotto L bracket, that I got as part in a second hand deal several years ago but never used. If I included a focusing rail, and a bubble level to the hot-shoe, I guess that would do.

Something like this without the 300N: http://www.flickr.com/photos/victormk1/2767895754/in/photostream/That setup, minus the 300N, is pretty much what I use. I don't presently use the camera in portrait position, though, and don't have (but intend to build) an L-bracket.

[Rick_R]

Hello

I want to do higher resolution and wider landscapes than my 20D+17-40mm f/4 combo allows me. I love my 17-40mm, and don't wan't another lens (like the 10-22) as I will probably go full-frame sometime.

This means stitching several frames - right?

Current equipment:
Manfrotto 055Pro
Manfrotto 486 Rc2

So far from my research I see tree options:

1) Buy something like the Nodal Ninja (http://www.nodalninja.com/)
2) Buy something to:
Level off the Camera: (http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfrotto/cache/offonce/pid/3209) or (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554092-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_338_338_QTVR_Leveling_B ase.html) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554092-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_338_338_QTVR_Leveling_B ase.html)
Something to control the horizontal movement: (http://www.amazon.com/Bogen-300N-Panoramic-Head/dp/B000FFIYM6)
Some kind of nodal point adapter.3) Buy a slightly better ball head with a horizontal lock, and see how far it takes me.

I appreciate any help, links etc. Thanks!

May I offer a different opinion, Get Photoshop CS 2, 3, or 4 (maybe Elements, but not sure) that has the Photo-merge function. It is possible to take panoramas without a tripod and use the software to put the files together. The following pano's all where hand-held and then processed in CS4.
http://bikeguy.smugmug.com/photos/543303905_Wk6Et-M.jpg

http://bikeguy.smugmug.com/photos/531802126_efNJR-M.jpg
http://bikeguy.smugmug.com/photos/488578758_ixCs9-M.jpg

These are much smaller versions of the actual photos, these and others are at: http://bikeguy.smugmug.com/gallery/8148171_WB2i6/1/488578758_ixCs9#488578758_ixCs9 Clicking on the right-hand side of the photos allows viewing the original files and the detail available in the photo. The really long photo is over 300 degrees of view (and about 15 individual photos put together.

The Santa Cruz Boardwalk photo was taken from a sailboat (under sail and healing at the time) where it would be very hard to use a tripod. Most of the time I'm hiking around without a plan and see a panorama with having to lug around a tripod.

The trick that I use is to utilize the camera's focus points to establish a horizon across the field that you shooting. This also helps with establishing ample overlap (more is better) in each file. I typically use the upper middle point which gives about a third of a frame for overlap and try to allow for a slop in my technique. With practice, I now feel comfortable shooting the original files without a tripod. Getting the exposure correct is much harder (I really recommend shooting RAW for latitude). Shooting in vertical mode is no problem, just more files to put together.

While this gives the program plenty to use, it results in very large files when done and it takes some time processing. I have found out that I really like to shoot pano's now

Hopefully I have not confused you. If there are any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me.

Regards
Rick

[olz]

Nice shots!!! Thanks Rick. No confusing. I already have CS4, but I haven't tried shooting panoramas without a tripod.

For some this might seem odd, but using a tripod, even when there's no need to shutter speed wise, is an important part of my workflow. I try to compose images, instead of taking them, and try to visualize the picture before shooting. Part of shooting landscapes for me is about taking the speed out of things. I almost always have an good idea about what to shoot when I head out.

Handholding a panorama would also give you problems with parallax I suppose? I'm not into those ultra wide panorama's. Often times I think they make the picture rather flat. I need to be able to put something in the foreground, close to the lens minimum focusing distance. That's why I think a setup like SkipD's with an L bracket or perhaps one of those Nodal Ninjas is a better option for me.

Anyway. Thanks for your input. At least I think I have to experiment a little before buying a lot of equipment.

[FlyingPhotog]

FWIW:

Five Shot pano (hand held) and autostitched in CS4:
http://www.pbase.com/flyingphotog/image/113603048/original.jpg

I'm constantly amazed at how well CS4 can put images together. Even with a little twist in each.

[THE TROOPER]

Superb images guy's i am in the same boat as you olz, but i have gone balls out and awaiting the 303 head ( which comes with 300N ) plus a 338 levelling base. I am hopeful this will take care of any anxious moments when doing pano's.

£320 all in. Not cheap but hey the missus don't know that ;)

Ian

[olz]

FWIW:

I'm constantly amazed at how well CS4 can put images together. Even with a little twist in each.

I believe you. That looks really nice! But have you tried doing a handheld panorama with an object really close to your wide-angle minimum focusing distance?

Superb images guy's i am in the same boat as you olz, but i have gone balls out and awaiting the 303 head ( which comes with 300N ) plus a 338 levelling base. I am hopeful this will take care of any anxious moments when doing pano's.

£320 all in. Not cheap but hey the missus don't know that ;)

Ian

I thought of that exact combo, but I'm afraid that it gets too bulky for my taste (no doubt that it's stable and nice to work with).

If I'm buying a rig - I think it's something like this for now:

Kirk L bracket for the 20D (for single row verticals) (58 gbp)
Kirk LRP-1 Long Rail Plate (to adjust nodal point). (88 gbp)
Novoflex Panorama=Q (more simple than the 300N but with a clamp build in) (100 gbp)
Manfrotto 555B levelling column for my 055Pro tripod (80 gbp)This should make a setup comparable to this one from RRS: http://reallyrightstuff.com/pano/02.html. That will set me back about 550 USD, or 340 GBP, but the setup will be more versatile, and much easier to store in the bag than the 303.

[THE TROOPER]

hi olz, just recieved my set up. It's huge and very sturdy :0

superb build to it, just got know how o work it.

ian

[olz]

Would be great if you could post some shots of your setup. As you can see I'm still not determined at all. :) I usually research on gear longer than I should (cost benefit).

[THE TROOPER]

Yeah mate, i will post later on today. Looks a great bit of kit........it was the cost that bugged me though, but hey its done now......:)

Ian

[gooble]

When I get a proper pano setup I'm going with Really Right Stuff. They have top notch gear. It's not cheap but it's solid. They have multiple pano setups. Single and double axis, pano heads and very good plates and quick release system.

As for software I'd use CS4, or CS3 which probably works like CS4. CS2 is terrible for stitching panos. It leaves seams all over skies and anything with little detail. If you already have PS CS4 then I would not waste money on stitching programs I'm not exactly sure what they do better than PS other than seperate you from your money.

[olz]

When I get a proper pano setup I'm going with Really Right Stuff. They have top notch gear. It's not cheap but it's solid. They have multiple pano setups. Single and double axis, pano heads and very good plates and quick release system.

I bet. But those prices are not for me. I only found one place in Europe where I can get RRS, and that's http://www.foto-konijnenberg.be/. Have a look at the prices. Really Right Stuff Ultimate-Pro Omni-Pivot is 1250 USD, and then comes shipping to Denmark!

[Rick_R]

Nice shots!!! Thanks Rick. No confusing. I already have CS4, but I haven't tried shooting panoramas without a tripod.

For some this might seem odd, but using a tripod, even when there's no need to shutter speed wise, is an important part of my workflow. I try to compose images, instead of taking them, and try to visualize the picture before shooting. Part of shooting landscapes for me is about taking the speed out of things. I almost always have an good idea about what to shoot when I head out.

Handholding a panorama would also give you problems with parallax I suppose? I'm not into those ultra wide panorama's. Often times I think they make the picture rather flat. I need to be able to put something in the foreground, close to the lens minimum focusing distance. That's why I think a setup like SkipD's with an L bracket or perhaps one of those Nodal Ninjas is a better option for me.

Anyway. Thanks for your input. At least I think I have to experiment a little before buying a lot of equipment.


Hi, again. You really put some thought into your photos (on your site) and I see how having a tripod helps you focus on the composition. The CS4 Photomerge tool works real well. I would recommend shooting a few practice frames for learning how to use the tool.

I have not seen any parallax issues when using my wide angle (10-22) and prefer to use in the vertical mode to increase the amount of detail I can capture.

As to the foreground item close the the lens, this photo has a small rock (right in the middle at the bottom) that is about two feet (~1m) in front of the lens.

http://bikeguy.smugmug.com/photos/560995024_rGw93-M.jpg

While it does not look that close, the field of view made it appear much smaller than reality. Basically, the Photomerge tool incorporated the near and far items seamlessly in to the merged photo.

I understand after viewing your site how much time and thought you put into an image, but I think to limit yourself because you do not have a piece of equipment may be wasting your talent. The nice thing about digital over film is that mistakes (learning opportunities) are faster to see and much cheaper than film.

That is one of the neat parts of photography is that there can be many different paths to a good image.

Regards
Rick

[olz]

Thank you for the kind words!

I totally agree on your views on equipment. My initial idea about getting a panorama head, was to be able to stitch 3 or 4 vertical 17mm images from a crop, until I can afford to buy a full frame camera. I understand that equipment are just means to an end, and besides from my camera body, all my gear is bought second hand from people that sell of cheap to get the newest gadgets.

I will give the hand-held panoramas a try one of the following days and see how it goes. If it's good I'll save my pennies... ;)

[spitfirejd]

The problem with a pano head is the distortion or parallax, particularly on closer objects. Another option that totally obviates this is a tilt/shift lens. You can shoot one picture centered, shift to the left then the right and you have three perfectly "flat" frames. This doesn't help if you need 5 frames to get everything in, but the 24mm T/S gets a pretty wide pano. You also have the advantage of being able to use the tilt function for close shots of buildings and such and get nice, straight lines or controlled DOF for flowers and such.

[eth3rton]

maybe Elements, but not sure

Yeah Elements does a great job... This was my first attempt at a Pano. Nothing special just wanted to play with the software...

http://eth3rton.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p254131156-5.jpg