Can't believe I am doing this...

[RikWriter]

After much resistance, I am dropping $2700 on Jess Lee's February winter tour of Yellowstone. Agggh, it hurts even typing that much money...but I really want to experience Yellowstone in the winter and I've seen the wolf shots that others who've taken Jess Lee's winter photo tours have been able to get, so...bye bye money.

[Stealthy Ninja]

If it's the type of photos you like to take, then you'll love it.

People drop a LOT more on holidays to places they don't like with people they can't stand... ;)

[Lazuka]

You only live once, sometimes you have to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

[RikWriter]

I'd say it's a safe bet that it's the type of photos I like to take...

http://www.pbase.com/rikwriter/image/113210517.jpg

[Stealthy Ninja]

Cool. :)

[MikeES]

Do you have a link to the tour info?
Sounds interesting!

[Lazuka]

Yes, how long does the trip last?

[hawkeye60]

I looked at his site. Frankly, that sounds like a lot of money for a 1 week Yellowstone trip. I'm going back to Egypt in October for two weeks for less money, but of course there aren't any wolves in Egypt.

[RikWriter]

Do you have a link to the tour info?
Sounds interesting!

http://www.jessleephotos.com/Yellowstone-Photo-Workshop-winter.html

[RikWriter]

I looked at his site. Frankly, that sounds like a lot of money for a 1 week Yellowstone trip. I'm going back to Egypt in October for two weeks for less money, but of course there aren't any wolves in Egypt.

No snow either. On the other side, there isn't as much chance of everyone I meet hating me in Yellowstone either... ;-)

[hawkeye60]

No snow either. On the other side, there isn't as much chance of everyone I meet hating me in Yellowstone either... ;-)

You're very misinformed, apparently you've never been to Egypt.

[RikWriter]

You're very misinformed, apparently you've never been to Egypt.

Okay, whatever you say. At any rate, it's off topic. Hope you have a good time in Egypt.

[wyofizz]

I'll take Yellowstone in the winter any day over a summer visit.
Been there many times in February.
Dress warm.

Dave

[RikWriter]

I'll take Yellowstone in the winter any day over a summer visit.
Been there many times in February.
Dress warm.

Dave

Heard anything about Jess Lee's tours? Are they worth the money?

[wyofizz]

Haven't heard about that type of tour. We went snowmobiling there every year for quite awhile. We go back every so often now.
Are you going to snowshoe into the back country or stay on the roads?
I wouldn't spend a week on just the roads.

Dave

[Nighthound]

You only go around once Rik. I know that's a good bit of money but ya gotta reach out and grab life whenever and however you can. I know you'll be glad you went and I'm looking forward to seeing your images. Capture the wonder!

[Todd Lambert]

Yeah, that does sound like a lot of money, for something that you can probably do yourself for much much cheaper. I'm sure it will be fun though.

[FlyingPhotog]

Is there a specific instructional bent to this trip or an "off the beaten path" aspect to which the general public can't get access?

FWIW, Arizona Highways workshops in the SW and Four Corners area often include access to tribal lands or areas where the public isn't allowed so you're buying a chance at images that not everyone can get but without that, they're also Gawd awful expensive in many cases.

[RikWriter]

Yeah, that does sound like a lot of money, for something that you can probably do yourself for much much cheaper.

I highly doubt I could do it myself. Even assuming I knew where to go and when to be there, it's around $700 a day for a private snow coach. For 7 days, that's $4900 right there, already more than I am paying. Much cheaper if I go with an established tour, of course, but then I don't control where I am going and it won't be centered on photography but rather just tourism.

[Todd Lambert]

Not sure why not. There is tons of info you can research about locations and whatnot online...

You can rent a camper, or 5th wheel and drive in yourself for pretty cheap. From the sounds of the description on the website, it sounds like a "lazy" form of photography rather than a serious one. I could be completely off-base here and I don't mean to be out of line, just curious.

Also, looking at the NP site: http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/photobus.htm it doesn't list him as one of their permitted tour companies. Not sure if that makes any difference whatsoever, just thought I'd mention it.

Anyways, do you know anyone who's done this excursion/workshop? How much do you know about it? I'll be honest, I don't know squat really, just curious. I'd like to do something similar but I think I'd make a go out it myself first, if possible. However, there is something to be said about relying on something established. I only question how much something like this would really give you the ability to snap shots of wild wolves which are normally known for staying away from man.

I mean no disrespect in my questions, I'm genuinely curious.

[RikWriter]

Not sure why not. There is tons of info you can research about locations and whatnot online...

You can rent a camper, or 5th wheel and drive in yourself for pretty cheap. From the sounds of the description on the website, it sounds like a "lazy" form of photography rather than a serious one. I could be completely off-base here and I don't mean to be out of line, just curious.

Also, looking at the NP site: http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/photobus.htm it doesn't list him as one of their permitted tour companies. Not sure if that makes any difference whatsoever, just thought I'd mention it.

Anyways, do you know anyone who's done this excursion/workshop? How much do you know about it? I'll be honest, I don't know squat really, just curious. I'd like to do something similar but I think I'd make a go out it myself first, if possible. However, there is something to be said about relying on something established. I only question how much something like this would really give you the ability to snap shots of wild wolves which are normally known for staying away from man.

I mean no disrespect in my questions, I'm genuinely curious.


Some of your questions seem a bit on the disrespectful side, to be honest...particularly the one calling it a "lazy" form of photography. Then you follow that up by later saying you want to do it yourself if you can be sure it's worth it. Kinda curious if it's "lazy."

But as for "why not," I already told you. Snow coach rental alone would be more than he's charging, and his charge includes transportation to and from Bozeman as well as lodging.
Yellowstone in winter has very few open roads. You can get from Bozeman to Mammoth and from Mammoth to the Lamar and that's about it. If you want to go anywhere else, you either get a guided snowmobile tour or hire a snow coach, which is driven by a hired driver. You don't drive around on the closed roads by yourself.
As for the wolves, hell, I am not by any means an expert and I got close enough for these shots a couple weeks ago:

http://www.pbase.com/rikwriter/image/113210517.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/rikwriter/image/113232163.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/rikwriter/image/113232384.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/rikwriter/image/113215390.jpg

That took me 8 days and 1800 miles of driving from before dawn to after dusk.
Hopefully with someone who runs tours there several times a year, I can do it with less driving.

[Todd Lambert]

Rik, I apologize, I didn't mean it in a derogatory way. :oops: I meant that in the way that playing golf in a golf cart vs walking the course kind of way. (which is the way I play!)

I've already seen your photos and the bear photos of spring 2009 look awesome. I have total respect for your work. I was just curious about these types of workshops - I've never done one and the questions I asked were/are the same type of questions I'd be asking for myself if I was researching going there.

Sorry :o

[Tom Reichner]

You can rent a camper, or 5th wheel and drive in yourself for pretty cheap.

Todd, do you realize that you can't just "drive yourself in" to the areas of Yellowstone where Jess goes?

Except for one road at the north part of the park, Yellowstone is closed to private vehicles during the winter. And you certainly couldn't drive a camper in there, anyway - they don't plow the snow, and there are several feet of snow in the park throughout the winter. The only practical means of access for a photographer with equipment to tote around is to use a licensed, approved snowcoach. These snowcoaches are very expensive.

As costly as Jess' tours seem, I really don't think you can go to these areas of the park at that time of year any cheaper. If you take the "public" snowcoaches, it's about $70 from one stop to the next. To go around to where Jess goes, that would be about 5 intervals in a day, or approximately $350 per day just for the snowcoach transportation. But the bummer with this is that the snowcoaches are operated like public transportation - they don't stop when you want them to. They go from one point to another, on a schedule. See a wolf - too bad, can't stop - gotta keep on schedule. Yep, that's what you get if you try to "do it yourself".

[wyofizz]

Rik,
Thanks for posting the photos.
FYI, In my last two trips in February I didn't see any wolves (on snowmobile).
Were your attached shots from any where near a main road?
Good job explaining access issues in the winter. Most people don't know that Yellowstone in the winter is a very controlled environment.
I think the only way you can go in without a guide is on ski's anymore.
That's why we only spend one day in the park in the winter.
Dave

[Todd Lambert]

Yeah, that's a very valid point. I hadn't really thought of it that way, but you're right. Again, like I said, I'm clueless on this, was just sort of thinking out loud and asking questions that probably seem stupid. hehe

[jruberto]

Yellowstone is awesome in the winter. My family went last year. My opinion, if you are going to photograph, its good to go with a group for that purpose and a snowcoach dedicated to your pursuits. You are pretty much stuck with a guide anyway.

You'll see lots of these:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3048/3103297661_0f5de0263b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2400/2281435285_af3768ca4f.jpg

Have a great trip!

[RikWriter]

Rik, I apologize, I didn't mean it in a derogatory way. :oops: I meant that in the way that playing golf in a golf cart vs walking the course kind of way. (which is the way I play!)

I've already seen your photos and the bear photos of spring 2009 look awesome. I have total respect for your work. I was just curious about these types of workshops - I've never done one and the questions I asked were/are the same type of questions I'd be asking for myself if I was researching going there.

Sorry :o

It's okay, I probably took it the wrong way.

[RikWriter]

Rik,
Thanks for posting the photos.
FYI, In my last two trips in February I didn't see any wolves (on snowmobile).
Were your attached shots from any where near a main road?


All of them were from on the road. I've never seen any large animal while hiking in Yellowstone...probably because 1)the rangers close any trail frequented by bears or wolves and 2)the big animals smell you coming and get away before you can see them.

[Tom Reichner]

All of them were from on the road. I've never seen any large animal while hiking in Yellowstone...probably because 1)the rangers close any trail frequented by bears or wolves and 2)the big animals smell you coming and get away before you can see them.

I hike alot in Yellowstone, at various times of the year, and very seldom do I get photo-close to large animals (except bison).

Most of the times I've hiked there I've basically come up empty. I think there is a reason for this. I believe that the animals know we belong on the road. The road is ours, everything else is theirs.

The same bear that will hang out along the roadside and allow dozens of people to get within a few yards to snap pictures will freak out and run from you if he's in the backcountry and you approach to within 200 yards or so. I've seen this happen over and over again.

Big, antlered bull elk are especially wary when away from the roads.

Bighorn sheep are often an exception to this. On several occasions I've been able to approach as close to them as I've wanted, even when off in the backcountry. In fact, this happened this past February. An unusually light snowfall in the Lamar area allowed for some hiking (the snow was only about 2 or 3 feet deep). We were able to get up on the ridge that the sheep were on, and they actually approached us! Which is a good thing, as park regulations don't allow you to approach any closer than 25 yards. So we just hiked thru the snow until we were about 30 yards from them, and then we allowed them to close the gap from there.

Attached are a couple pics from the aforementioned event. I guess that you can have some success doing Yellowstone in the winter on your own, after all. Just not for wolves.

[RikWriter]

Wow, that is very cool. I wish I lived as close to the park as you!

[Tom Reichner]

Come to think of it, Yellowstone on your own in the winter ain't too bad for 'yotes, either.

[Tom Reichner]

Wow, that is very cool. I wish I lived as close to the park as you!

And I wish I had such nearby access to Florida's tropical water birds, crocks, and gators!

[In2Photos]

And I wish I had such nearby access to Florida's tropical water birds, crocks, and gators!
You can have the crocks and gators, I'll take the birds though! :lol:

[RikWriter]

And I wish I had such nearby access to Florida's tropical water birds, crocks, and gators!

We ain't got no crocs around here...plenty of gators, of course. Frankly, after being in Yellowstone for two weeks, I haven't been able to get up the enthusiasm to go back out and photograph any more water birds.

[Tom Reichner]

You picked an awfully good time of the year to go. Believe it or not, Yellowstone isn't always like that. I've spent many days driving around and many days hiking the backcountry looking for subjects . . . and coming up empty. In another week or two it's going to get a lot harder to find worthy subjects in Yellowstone.

[RikWriter]

You picked an awfully good time of the year to go. Believe it or not, Yellowstone isn't always like that. I've spent many days driving around and many days hiking the backcountry looking for subjects . . . and coming up empty. In another week or two it's going to get a lot harder to find worthy subjects in Yellowstone.

I dunno man...I have been there twice before in summer, once in early June and once in late June and I saw a bunch of wildlife both times. Also been there once before in September and had pretty good luck. My main problem before was I was there with family during the summer visits and with a friend who was not into photography during the early fall visit and couldn't spend the sort of time I did this time looking.