Room-light stand length question?

[err99]

I have been asked to photograph a birthday party. The reception hall has tall ceilings. I am borrowing two 10-ft stands, two umbrellas, two 580ex flashes and a ST-E2 from a friend. Would this be enough? Are the stands long enough for the purpose?
Also, I plan on using ETTL metering. Should I set my camera (M) to mix available light and flash or should I try and shut out all available light? I'm afraid that the flashes might not be enough to light the scene on their own. The party is during the day and the hall has big windows.

[err99]

No love?

[bobbyz]

If party is during the day in a hall with big windows you should have more than enough ambient light. Then just use some fill flash. Why make life complicated.

[err99]

The party's from 5 to close(11). I'm guessing I'll be done by 8. If they want me to stay for cake, I might have to stay later. The other thing is that it's a geriatric party (80). I'm hoping they'll close shop early. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[err99]

I'm sorry if I'm being a pest but, are 10ft stand tall enough for reception halls?

[gonzogolf]

I'm sorry if I'm being a pest but, are 10ft stand tall enough for reception halls?

Depends on how you are going to use them. 10 feet is at least 3 feet taller than your tallest subject unless this is an NBA party. Since you havent included any information on what you are gonna do with them people probably dont know what to tell you.

[Wilt]

At what angle do ambient light sources come in from?...windows, for example.

Lighting should not be formula answers all the time. Mimic what occurs in everyday life, and you will create lighting that looks natural to the viewer (except to someone accustomed to living in the bush or in windowless dwellings like caves!)

[err99]

Depends on how you are going to use them. 10 feet is at least 3 feet taller than your tallest subject unless this is an NBA party. Since you havent included any information on what you are gonna do with them people probably dont know what to tell you.

I've been trying to provide as much information as possible. If there's any other piece of information that may help you help me please let me know and I'll try my best to provide it.

[err99]

At what angle do ambient light sources come in from?...windows, for example.

Lighting should not be formula answers all the time. Mimic what occurs in everyday life, and you will create lighting that looks natural to the viewer (except to someone accustomed to living in the bush or in windowless dwellings like caves!)

The windows are huge at this place. All you see is glass when you enter this place (a local country club). I have two lights and two 45" umbrella. Not a real competition in that regard. But I have to make do.

[err99]

Perhaps I'm not phrasing my question correctly, let me try this, what is the "optimum" height of light stands for "standard" reception halls?

[cdifoto]

If you just fill the room up by bouncing them off the ceiling, it doesn't matter a whole lot how tall the light stands are.

[err99]

I'm not sure I can use the ceilings. They are dome shaped. Two domes to be precise. With huge chandeliers in each dome.

[err99]

The idea I had was to point the umbrellas down a little, on the people. What I'm afraid of is people casting shadows on others.

[Wilt]

The windows are huge at this place. All you see is glass when you enter this place (a local country club). I have two lights and two 45" umbrella. Not a real competition in that regard. But I have to make do.

I don't care what the windows are like in this specific venue. I am giving you a principle with which to guide your placement of light anywhere you go! "Make it look light normally occurring light, for a generic location" The sun is not always high in the sky. Windows are at different levels and sizes. So does it truly matter about size or height of softbox or simple reflector? Not really, because both sun and windows occur in every day life!

Does light coming thru a window cast a shadow?...sometimes.

If you were doing a formal portrait, 'right height' is what flatters the subject best for the pose that is struck. So sometimes the light is down right in front, sometimes it is up a bit higher, sometimes it is way high (look at the lighting in a Rembrandt oil, and how high that classic light is, which is sometimes mimiced by photographers!)

[err99]

Wilt, that's a good point. However, when the sun is lower it does cast a lot of shadows. But you can see where the shadows fall and try to avoid photographs that can be otherwise marred by the shadow. Here I wouldn't necessarily know about the shadow until after I take the shot. I'm sure there are more experienced photographers who know exactly where they placed their lights walking around and shooting in a hall. But I lack experience so I'd rather eliminate shadows as much as possible. However, I don't want to place my lights too high and get the the lower parts of their faces in shadows either.

[Wilt]

You're exhibiting OCD. :) The 'right height' changes with the distance to the subject! Remember geometry in high school? Would you be controlling subject distance? If no, then 'it really does not matter'.

[george m w]

I'm wondering since all this flash stuff is "borrowed rig" that you may not have enough experience with all this idea of flash to make it work ?

Sounds like it will be a fun and easy place to shoot avaialable light.....less intrusive too. I'd just take a flash and leave it in the bag, only taking it out to use if you have to later in the evening. Buy then, you should all the shots you need anyway.

What camera and lens are you using ?

[err99]

You're exhibiting OCD. :) .

LOL! No, I'm actually freaking out!!!

[err99]

I'm wondering since all this flash stuff is "borrowed rig" that you may not have enough experience with all this idea of flash to make it work ?

Sounds like it will be a fun and easy place to shoot avaialable light.....less intrusive too. I'd just take a flash and leave it in the bag, only taking it out to use if you have to later in the evening. Buy then, you should all the shots you need anyway.

What camera and lens are you using ?

Since I'm getting paid for "film and prints" (whatever that's supposed to mean in a digital era), I want to make it a learning experience. The stuff belongs to a good friend. I have some experience with the flashes from working with her. She has given me a brief tutorial also.

Available light may fade towards the end of the party. I don't want to jack up ISO past 800. I have a 30D. As far as lenses I have a Tamron 17-50 which is 2.8 but I barely ever use it below (or above, I'm not sure which is correct) 4.0. I'm also going to borrow a 70-200 f/4 IS from my friend.

[cdifoto]

How about bounce flash on-camera and dragging the shutter instead? Relying on a method you're not comfortable with is a potential for disaster. Take the stuff along but only use it at the end of the night to experiment after all your key shots are captured.

[err99]

How about bounce flash on-camera and dragging the shutter instead? Relying on a method you're not comfortable with is a potential for disaster.

I'm not sure I understand. Are you talking about using a bounce card? "dragging the shutter", does that mean a slower shutter speed? For the room? So the flash will freeze the person?

[cdifoto]

There are a gazillion and one threads & tutorials on bounce flash and dragging the shutter.

[err99]

Okay, I just did. I wasn't familiar with the terminology. As far as I understood, it's 2nd curtain sync with slower shutter speeds and flash freezing motion. Is this correct? However, the image that went through my mind was something like this.

[cdifoto]

LOL nice. Very convincing Photoshop work as well.

[err99]

I didn't realize I'd be judged on it. It was a rush job using paint.

[err99]

Can I try the shutter dragging technique with the flashes on stands?

[c2thew]

dude. get there early, listen to the comments about what wilt said about positioning the light stands. and if you are still feeling that you aren't getting the shots you desire, take one flash off the stand and mount it on your camera. At least ettl will save your butt (provided that you know how to manage)

that's what i would do. 1 flash on stand (NO UMBRELLA) and 1 flash on camera. hopefully you've read the manual on grouping flashes. or if worse comes to worse, set your flash on the stand on manual: 1/8 ouput

[Mark_48]

Maybe a browse through http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/ may be of help. "Flash Photography Techniques" on the right side. This is one of the "gazillion" sites I consider to be one of the better ones for flash use.

And is it possible for you to go to the hall prior to the event to try some lighting to see what might work or not work?

[err99]

dude. get there early, listen to the comments about what wilt said about positioning the light stands. and if you are still feeling that you aren't getting the shots you desire, take one flash off the stand and mount it on your camera. At least ettl will save your butt (provided that you know how to manage)

that's what i would do. 1 flash on stand (NO UMBRELLA) and 1 flash on camera. hopefully you've read the manual on grouping flashes. or if worse comes to worse, set your flash on the stand on manual: 1/8 ouput

Why "no umbrella"? Wouldn't the umbrellas soften the light a little?

[err99]

Maybe a browse through http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/ may be of help. "Flash Photography Techniques" on the right side. This is one of the "gazillion" sites I consider to be one of the better ones for flash use.

And is it possible for you to go to the hall prior to the event to try some lighting to see what might work or not work?

I'll look through those. I am planning on getting there early anyway "to set up the lights".