NY to trap and kill (Canada Geese)

[Shar824]

2000 Canada Geese. Just heard this on the 10pm news and they said something that I had a question about. They said they were planning on trapping them when they're molting, because they can't fly then...is this a true statement or is my local anchor and idiot (I already know he is though). I've never heard that and don't know that much about Canada Geese.

[jgrussell]

2000 Canada Geese. Just heard this on the 10pm news and they said something that I had a question about. They said they were planning on trapping them when they're molting, because they can't fly then...is this a true statement or is my local anchor and idiot (I already know he is though). I've never heard that and don't know that much about Canada Geese.Yeah, it's basically true. They certainly can't fly far or long, and culling efforts are generally timed to coincide with molting.

It's hard for any bird lover to say any bird needs to be culled... but Canada Geese can be right pests.

[Shar824]

Thanks JG....I hate to hear that's what they're going to do, those geese were probably there a long long time before any people/airports were.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Actually they likely weren't The Canada Goose population boom is relatively new,. the impact of our society has greatly effected the habitat and there migrations etc..
The fauna that would have competed with them prior to 1492 could not compete or co habitate with us as well as the Canada goose.. this has left the goose in a position to take over in areas they never used to be found. The "boom " in that population is only about 20 years old.. and growing.
Many populations have given up migration all together, and there presence year round plays a huge toll on the "real" local wildlife.

This pushes other less adaptable species out, and could push some species to the brink.
The same is going on with Mute Swans, though they are not indigenous to even this continent.

This is the reason why the "culling" is accepted,. it's an attempt (however lame) to actually try and restore a balance.

[canonloader]

There are of course, written accounts and woodcuts of the Canada Goose populations in places along the Atlantic flyway, like Chesepeake Bay that describe and depict flotillas of geese so thick that people hunted them from special boats mounted with up to 5 1" canons loaded with bird shot and mounted on the front of the boats and all fired at the same time. The kills were enough to fill the boat from one firing.

Now, how these accounts, that went on for a hundred years and are verified, jibes with the "gubmint" accounts of what they want you to believe, borders on the realms of fantasy. The truth is, they were here first and in larger numbers than anyone with a stake in hiding what the truth is, is willing to admit.

[Shar824]

Well, here's a question for whoever can answer it. Isn't there a migratory bird law?? Don't canada geese fall into the category of "migratory birds"? If that's the case, is New York simply ignoring the migratory bird law with the Canada geese, and killing them all off.

[canonloader]

And where was the hue and cry from the people? It seems suspiciously absent this time. It's OK to bring back wolves and bears and protect them against the ranchers whose cattle they kill, but when a goose get's sucked into one of the pollution hog jets, oh no, let's kill all the geese.

[J-dubya]

the geese in question are NON-migratory RESIDENT NUISANCE geese. they are over-populated. they are not "kiling them all off". i know ya'll talk about european starlings and house finches all the time and how they are a problem...the geese are the same way. these 2000 geese they are killing really isn't doing much at all to the LOCAL NON-MIGRATORY population.

[canonloader]

You say that as if there were no resident geese BEFORE we got here to exterminate them. Puleeeese. Whenever people start making excuses for reasons to kill off the wildlife it invariably means one thing, THERE ARE TOO MANY DAMNED PEOPLE. Nothing a real working birth control plan could not cure. ;)

[J-dubya]

geese are supposed to migrate...these don't

[J-dubya]

, THERE ARE TOO MANY DAMNED PEOPLE. Nothing a real working birth control plan could not cure. ;)

but i do agree with you there

[canonloader]

Ya know, it wouldn't be so bad if they were going to use the meat. But I bet they kill and release them. What a waste.

[J-dubya]

from what i have seen, the soup kitchens don't want them b/c of the way they are euthanizing them

[canonloader]

My point exactly. All in all, it's your typical well thought out response to a small disaster that has happened exactly once in 50 some odd years of jets serving NYC. Let's kill the geese, kill them all, KILL, KILL....

Well, the two culprits that caused the engine failure were killed. Isn't that enough?

[J-dubya]

well...do you agree that the birds are supposed to migrate, yet they don't? that's not natural at all. there are way to many geese for that area to support, and they should be moving with the weather and food sources. the 2000 that they are going to kill isn't going to devestate the population. in fact, i'm pretty sure that they oil eggs during nesting to cut down on numbers as it is

[canonloader]

No, sorry. Nobody knows what the Geese did before we started paying close attention to them. My guess is, some never migrated, the old, the weaker young ones, those who weren't breeding or had lost a mate that winter. You mentioned they were going to euthanize them. How are they going to do that? If you can round them up to inject them, then you can just as easily herd them into trailers and drive them to the other end of the state in a couple hours. Are they going to shoot them? Then there is no reason not to give away the meat. Either way, the whole thing is just some pap they are feeding the media and will never have a chance of stopping more geese from flying into a jet engine as early as this afternoon. I mean, if we were being honest about it.

[J-dubya]

carbon monoxide...and geese/ducks/swans migrate young and old, paired or not. that is a fact of nature
you're right though. SOME never migrate. NONE of these do

[canonloader]

Not sure what the point is. Migrate or not, they are going to fly over the city. What next? Kill all Geese?

[james.bond]

You say that as if there were no resident geese BEFORE we got here to exterminate them. Puleeeese. Whenever people start making excuses for reasons to kill off the wildlife it invariably means one thing, THERE ARE TOO MANY DAMNED PEOPLE. Nothing a real working birth control plan could not cure. ;)

You are absolutely right. There should be a population control for humans. Humans are the main culprit, they take away other animals’ habitat then have the rudeness to cry out that "other animals such as Wolves and Bears are invading my house" when they invaded their house first.

Soon they will not be any resources left on this planet except such billions and billions of human beings. Humans are not so smart IMO.

This planet does not have the resources to house 6 billion people, especially when humans destroy or poach other animals for a living not knowing that they are destroying themselves in the process or they are too lazy to make a living other than killing other life forms not caring when the animal will be extinct re mapping the food chain.

Just My own opinion.

[canonloader]

Your preaching to choir here. :)

The year I was born, there were only 3.5 Billion people, half as many as there are now, over 7 Billion. I am now 63 and I do remember that the world was less crowded then than now. I know it must be real hard to understand if you never experienced it, but you could feel the open space then and you can "feel" the crowding now.

Earth has the resources to support large numbers of people, but nothing like what we have now. Tonight, 4 billion people will go to bed hungry. Would it not be better for there to be 4 billion less people and we can all go to bed with full stomachs tonight, healthy, in our queen sized beds in our 10 room houses while we watch our 50" plazmas?

[CyberDyneSystems]

You sound like my Dad, the "UniFather" who moved to Newfoundland to get away from it all..

...and I agree with both of you!

It took the entire history (and pre history) of mankind, many many thousands of years to reach that population of 3 billion.
In my lifetime it has more than doubled.

Anyway, my point in my last post was not that the Geese should be put behind humanities needs,.
My point is that in some cases, because we have messed things up, we need to put the prolific geese's priorities behind more threatened species.

It is not applicable in this case about air traffic, but the geese are living permanently in areas where that did not use to happen as other species and predators would have been there to make sure of it.
This absolutely is unnatural behavior that has been caused, created by mankind's impact on the rest of the environment.
Those massive flotillas of geese you describe were all migratory.
Until mankind wiped out the predators and competing species, and started hand feeding the geese white bread, they geese had no reason to prefer immobility, nor were they so sick from eating white bread that they could not manage to migrate.
And yes, the presence of the geese competing with other species IS human kinds doing once again...

My info on this is NOT the government, but Cornell university.
You may want to look them up, they are an excellent source of accurate unbiased scientific info.
(even my Dad subscribes to "Living Bird" )

[canonloader]

I lived in Maryland for 15 years and while there, picked up this antique book about hunting the Geese on Chesapeak Bay. It was about a kid being taught the trade, the boats they used and the one inch cannons mounted on the front of them. They really got into the boats, how they were built and the dangers of the home made cannons. The gist of it was, when the Geese came back in the Fall, you could "get out and walk across the river on their backs". :)

Now, you might see a few geese in the man made ponds around apartment complexes.

Just like the Tuna and Salmon though, if we just gave them 5 years of no hunt and no fishing every 30 years, they would all come back. Who knows, the North Sea Cod might even come back, but we have to stop long enough to let it happen.

[J-dubya]

key points, that was an antique book, and those geese it talked about were migratory

Now, you might see a few geese in the man made ponds around apartment complexes.
these are not migratory birds either

and that spill about giving them 5 years off, that happens to be false. hunting accounts for VERY SMALL percentage of death in the grand scheme of things. waterfowl populations are heavily effected by weather, more than anything else. migratory fowl will also be flying much higher than the low flying resident birds, ot just avoiding the bright lights from the city all together

did people screw up the system, yes. once again, not arguing that at all

Anyway, my point in my last post was not that the Geese should be put behind humanities needs,.
My point is that in some cases, because we have messed things up, we need to put the prolific geese's priorities behind more threatened species.

spot on

[canonloader]

these are not migratory birds either
Obviously you have never been North of the Mason/Dixon line, you know, where water freezes, snow falls and all the summer food for them is dead and frozen? Sheeese.

[J-dubya]

actually i have been plenty of times. and everytime i go, i remember why i don't live in the north. WILD MIGRATORY fowl will not be in apartment complex ponds

[canonloader]

Maybe we have a different understanding of what migratory means. To me, it means part of the year they are there, then part of the year, they aren't. I think this is the accepted definition? When apartment complex ponds freeze over and geese are no longer in evidence, what happened to them? Did they move into an apartment? Or, gasp, did they migrate? :rolleyes:

[J-dubya]

moving from the apartment complex pond to a city park pond across town isn't migrating...sorry. and once again. WILD fowl won't be on an apartment complex pond in the first place

[canonloader]

So your saying the weather is so spotty that a pond on one side of town can freeze, but one a mile away can't? Canada geese are wildfowl. If you believe anything else, try and catch one some time.

I have just been reading all about this slaughter of geese they intend to carry out. First off, the reports are all over the map. One news outlet syas they are training airport security people to use shotguns, another says they intend to "trap" and gas them. As I said before, I would have less of a problem with this if they were going to use the birds to feed people. If they use shotguns, then they could feed people with them, if they "trap" the birds, then they can just as easily use another method to slaughter them, or they could load them on trailers and transport them away from the airport, there is no need to kill them and ruin the meat for human consumption at the same time.

You said earlier something about the birds flying at a certain height. So what? Birds fly at different heights and so do planes. Neither of which is going to definitively end the danger. And what about seagulls? Bird strikes have long been a problem to planes, the only way to end it is to kill all the birds and that is not going to happen. All the planes will be grounded for lack of fuel first.

Overall, your arguement for killing the birds is just wrong on so many points it's no longer worth discussing with you.

[J-dubya]

hahaha...you are comical.

there is a HUGE difference in your beloved park geese and wild geese...HUGE
try getting anywhere NEAR as close to a true wild goose as you can to a resident bird

yes a pond on one side of town can freeze and not on the other. it has to do with depth, flow rate, vegetation in the water, etc. I've seen a pond on one side of a creek locked completely up and on the other side of the creek, just have a little ice around the edges.

airports actually employ people specifically to get rid of birds, be it by killing them or scaring them off.(geese, gulls, crows, etc.)

the meat from those geese is still fine to eat as far as i know after they have been gassed, i just don't think that the soup kitchens want them. besides, gassing them is the most humane, cost-effective method for getting rid of them. trailer them away you say? that is how this whole resident/nuisance bird thing became a problem in the first place. people didn't want to kill them so they sent them somewhere else.

[hairy_moth]

THERE ARE TOO MANY DAMNED PEOPLE.

I know that is a very common belief today.. it has been since the 60s when the world population was below 4 billion, but it just isn't true. Obesity is a much larger problem in the world today than starvation (no pun intended). The countries with the fastest growing economies are the countries with (guess what) the greatest abundance of human resources in the world.

We are no where near reaching the limits of the worlds capabilities to produce food -- the only issue is doing a better job of distributing it.

I know -- over population has become such a mantra of the elite that nobody even questions it anymore; but the facts just don't support it. Overpopulation is not a real problem.

Sure, some of the farmland that was on the outskirts of town now is home to condos -- but really, why is that a problem? What right do we have to having farms where they were 20 years ago?

[canonloader]

I know that is a very common belief today
Because it's true and almost everyone can see it. Over population has almost nothing to do with our ability to feed the masses. But who wants to eat nothing but rice? Sure, we can feed a lot of people, but their quality of life is going to be very low. Just travel sometime to see it in action.

[Perry Ge]

A friend of mine was extremely surprised when I explained to her that some birds are absolute pests - it doesn't occur to a lot of people, although in my experience birders are more sympathetic to that knowledge in general. Canada geese, house sparrows, and I'm sure many other species of bird really can mess up the ecosystems they are introduced into.

[hairy_moth]

Because it's true and almost everyone can see it. Over population has almost nothing to do with our ability to feed the masses. But who wants to eat nothing but rice? Sure, we can feed a lot of people, but their quality of life is going to be very low. Just travel sometime to see it in action.

How exactly has Your quality of life suffered from overpopulation?

[CyberDyneSystems]

So it seems the discussion has out run it's place in Photography related subject matter.