20D Vs. 350XT

[AXENA]

OK... I know that somewhere out here there has to be a thread on the benefits vs. cost of the 20d vs. the DrebelXT. But, time is an issue.... wedding coming up and can't surf as much as I'd like to today. So bottom line.....

For a wedding, will the RebelXT (8megapix) suffice with good glass and 580EX speedlights, or do I really need to take the $3000 plunge for the 20d, glass and flash?

This is important as I know that my G5, although I love it, will never do the work I need.

Thanks for your constructive help on this topic (and I apologize for the repeat topic if it elsewhere on the boards). Attached is a recent G5 photo.... it does good work, but not enough for weddings (it's a friend's wedding, so no professional worries at the moment... I just want to do a good job for them).

Respectfully,
Gary L. (NJ)

[wibbly]

Interesting perspective here

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/xt-350d.shtml

Bottom line: Picture quality very similar, it's the erganomics where the differences are...

J

[CyberDyneSystems]

A quick search listed four threads with this comparison,. there are more I'm sure,. the variable being what term was used for the 350D/rebelXT ;)

Here's the four threads;
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/search.php?searchid=159476

[AXENA]

Interesting perspective here

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/xt-350d.shtml

Bottom line: Picture quality very similar, it's the erganomics where the differences are...

J


Thank you for that link! Found it quite helpful.... just noticed a price dip in the 20D at Ritz.... may become a non-issue now... for the few extra $$ the 20D is a no-brainer... but we'll see as the day goes on... thanks again!

[Anders Östberg]

The really big difference for me is the physical size, the grip of the 20D is already on the small side for my hands, the XT is definitely too small.

[Skip Souza]

Always get the best that you can afford and you wil seldom be disappointed.

Check out Bob Atkins 20D v. XT comparo. (http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos_digital_rebel_xt_vs_20d.html)

[jobber73]

To me it was ergonomics/features. The day I was ready to order the 20D, the XT was announced. I lucked out. I always felt like I was overpaying for things I may never really personally need, but I knew I didn't want a DRebel.

The XT is a perfect fit for where I'm at with photography. I think it's very intuitive and easy to use and the missing features that make is 'less' than the 20D are all things I'd rarely if ever need/use.

I was a little concerned about size after reading the forums, but when I got it I was pleasantly surprised. It's bigger than the Pentax Film SLR it's replacing. I can't imagine lugging a 20D and using it for extended period of times. To me, the XT is a big, solid camera and it's actually a great size for my hands/grip.

If the money matters, I'm guessing the XT will deliver most of what the 20D does but in a slightly different way. If money doesnt matter, then why not drop a few bucks and get the 20D? The end result though is the image and they're very comparable (if not equal) and I can't think of a single situation I personally shoot under that the 20D would have gotten the shot and the XT wouldn't.

[RJSorensen]

Twenty-D . . .

[fatrat]

So many people are saying the only differance between the XT and the 20D is the 20D shoots 5fps Vs the 3 Fps of the XT and the form factor. after reading that website nothing could be further from the truth there is a HUGE diffrance between the two!

Like far more then i thought there was


Things that are different where the EOS 20D is better


The EOS 20D has a rear QCD (Quick Control Dial) which can be used to set exposure compensation, flash compensation, shutter speed or aperture in manual mode and has several other functions. The same functions are available in the Digital Rebel XT, but require the pushing of buttons. The advantage of the QCD is you can do things faster and without taking your eye from the viewfinder.
The EOS 20D can shoot at 5 frames/second, the Digital Rebel XT can shoot at 3 frames/sec
The EOS 20D can shoot a burst of 23 high resolution JPEG frames before the buffer fills, The Digital Rebel XT can shoot 14 frames
The EOS 20D has 9 autofocus zones, the Digital Rebel XT has 7
The EOS 20D provides full cross-type performance with maximum apertures as small as f5.6, yet it achieves up to 3 times the standard focusing precision when used with EF lenses featuring maximum apertures larger than or equal to f/2.8. The autofocus system of the Digital Rebel XT is inherited from the film Rebel XT body and has normal precision f5.6 sensors.
The EOS 20D autofocus is specified to operate in 1 stop lower light than the Digital Rebel autofocus (-0.5 EV vs +0/5 EV)
The EOS 20D autofocus is faster than the autofocus on the Digital Rebel XT
The EOS 20D has a top shutter speed of 1/8000s, the Digital Rebel XT has a top shutter speed of 1/4000s
The EOS 20D has a flash x-sync speed of 1/250s, the Digital Rebel x-sync speed is 1/200s
The EOS 20D has a pentaprism with a 0.9x viewfinder magnification, the Digital Rebel XT has a pentamirror with 0.8x magnification.
The EOS 20D has a highest ISO setting of 3200, the Digital Rebel XT has a high ISO setting of 1600.
The EOS 20D is good for 1000 shots (no flash) on a single battery charge, the Digital Rebel XT is good for 600.
The EOS 20D has a PC terminal for use with an external flash or strobe, the Digital Rebel XT does not.
The EOS 20D maximum flash sync voltage is 250v (for both the hotshoe and PC terminal), the Digital Rebel XT maximum sync voltage is also 250v, not 6v as I had earlier reported. Canon have recently stated that the Digital Rebel XT does in fact share the 250v sync voltage with the 20D and other high end Canon EOS bodies. Sorry for any confusion on this point.
The EOS 20D has a high performance shutter designed for increased reliability (100,000 cycles), the Digital Rebel XT has the normal Canon shutter (about 50,000 cycles).
The shutter lag time of the EOS 20D is 65ms, the shutter lag time of the Digital Rebel XT is 100ms.
The high-speed mirror drive give the EOS 20D a shortened viewfinder blackout time (115ms) compared to the Digital Rebel XT (170ms)
The EOS 20D sensor (8.2MP, 22.5 x 15mm) is very slightly larger and has slightly more pixels than the Digital Rebel XT sensor (8.0MP, 22.2 x 14.8mm).
The EOS 20D has a multi-controller on the back of the camera can be pushed in eight directions, as well as down in the center, to simplify selection of the AF point, correction of white balance, trimming of images during direct printing, scrolling of magnified images etc. The Digital Rebel XT uses push buttons for the same functions.
The EOS 20D has top, front and rear covers made of a magnesium alloy for added strength and rigidity. The top, front and rear covers of the Rebel XT are plastic.
The EOS 20D has 18 custom functions, the Digital Rebel XT has 9 (<A href="http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos_digital_rebel_xt_cf.html">List of XT custom functions)
The EOS 20D ships with Adobe PhotoShop Elements 2, the Digital Rebel XT ships with ArcSoft PhotoStudio 5.5. Adobe have an upgrade offer from Elements to full Photoshop CS for $299 (http://store.adobe.com/store/products/master.jhtml?id=catCanon). This offer applies to copies of Elements which were supplied bundled with Canon products. Since Photoshop retails for up to $599 ($649 list), this can be a significant saving.

[Anders Östberg]

So many people...
...are just listing what they feel are the most noticeable differences in everyday use. For someone starting out a lot of the items in your long list are not really significant. But sure, there are a lot of differences, large and small.

[fatrat]

...are just listing what they feel are the most noticeable differences in everyday use. For someone starting out a lot of the items in your long list are not really significant. But sure, there are a lot of differences, large and small.

Its just i was reading posts and assumed that they were the exact same camera bar the form factor and the 5Fps.. from what i was reading it was like the 300D and the 10D had exact same sensor and picture quality just the 10D has extra speed and some other features. i never really knew there was that much differance between the 20D and the XT, i mean i was misled into to thinking it had the same Res. Picture quality (like thinking it was the same sensor and same features bar the FPS) but its like saying the 20D is the same as the 1D MkII just the mark II is faster!! which is also so far from the truth

And by the way i did not make that list up

[Anders Östberg]

...
its like saying the 20D is the same as the 1D MkII just the mark II is faster!! which is also so far from the truth

Some people will say that the 20D is a "mini 1D". :)


And by the way i did not make that list up
I definitely didn't say that.

[cdhender]

It all comes down to need. For some, that list is irrelevant because they're taking pictures on family vacations and for hobby. For others, they're feeding their families with these cameras, so they need all those extra features which may be irrelevant to the "serious hobbyist".

And for others still, like myself, they're a hobbyist who just has to have the coolest toys* :D

*within reason of course, I won't be spending 4 grand on a camera anytime soon

[MarkH]

Some people will say that the 20D is a "mini 1D". :)

The 20D is a 1D for those that can't afford a 1D. i.e. it is the poor mans 1D.

Some of us just like photography and earn no income from it, the 1DM2 is a lot of money for a hobby. For the price of a 1D you can buy a 20D + a nice selection of lenses.

Of course if I had the money to spare I would buy the 1DM2, but the 20D is very capable and takes photos 90% as well as the 1DM2. You always pay much more for that extra few percent of performance.

The 350D is a different camera altogether, it is not designed for the same performance and is not really the best for fast action photography. But as an entry level D-SLR it is a pretty capable little camera with good high quality/low noise results from ISO 100 through to ISO 1600. At higher ISO it beats any compact P&S by a country mile.

Personally I think that the 20D is better value, it is much better than the 350D and the body is only 50% dearer. Once you add some lenses and total up the cost of the whole system you may find that a 20D is only 20% dearer (or less). If you compare that to the 1DM2 which has a cost of 5x the 350D or 3x the 20D then you can see that the value for money on the 20D is really good. Unless you need the 8 fps or weather proofing then the 1DM2 is probably too much money for most of us.

[AXENA]

Thanks all for the information regarding the DrebelXT and the 20D. Since some income will be derived from the camera, the few extra hundred bucks looks like it will be worth the investment. Very informative links and info.... thanks everyone for your input! Look forward to sharing my experiences with the 20D.

Oh, BTW.... there isn't a 30D out there on the horizon anytime soon is there? If so, the price of the 20D will surely drop...
Gary

[cmM]

i was playing around with an xt over the weekend... I find it a little too small, but that shutter sounds so darned sexy :-P

[Medic1]

The XT is just too small for me. I am going with the 20D and will be getting it in the next couple of weeks. The XT is an unbeatable camera for its price though. If the size of the grip and overall camera itself is not an issue for you I think you may be happy with the XT.

[whchan]

I had the 350D for about a month now and have taken ~3000 pictures with it. I live in a warm weather state where no gloves will be needed. I have small hands for male and I found that the 350D is a little smaller than I would like, some times. My friends have the Nikon D70 and Canon 20D and I found them fit my hands better, even I have small hands, as I stated. I can imagine some people with bigger hands might have some troubles with the 350D, espically with gloves on.
But I think the 350D fits perfectly for ladies or people with small hands and don't want to carry a heavy load on the neck all day long.

[Rob612]

What to say ? I have the 350D, after the 300D that I kept for very little time. I have nothing against bulky cameras, in the past I have managed to use (and still have) big guys like the old Leica R3 and Nikon F5 without any problem. But honestly, sure the 20D is superior, no doubt. But I personally liked the lighness and compactness of the 350. I just was not used to such small SLRs, but I foud it extremely comfortable. Sure enough, it needs the battery grip. Also, the quality/price ratio, if its not going to be something you make your living out of it is very, very appealing (in that case, probably something better like the 20D as a minimum level is required). Keep in mind that over here the 350D lists for about 1000 Euro, that is as of today, about 1.25K$, while the 20D list about 1.5 KEU. Too much, honestly, at least for an hobby, even as expensive as photograpy is.

[drisley]

For weddings, the 350D with good glass will beat the 20D with bad glass.
Then again, a 300D with good glass will beat a 1DMKII with bad glass.
If you can't afford the 20D and good lenses, get the 350D and a few good lenses.

[AXENA]

After much contemplating, the results are in: WENT WITH THE 20D! I played around with both in the store and just couldn't resist it. The feel of it was much more solid, the fast FPS rate as well as the features.... well.... I couldn't justify saving the few extra hundred bucks. Plus, next paycheck I can pick up the RebelXT body as my "back-up" anyway, so..... wish me luck with my new toy...

Anyone need a new wife? Mine just left me after she found out.... oh well... I'll probably get more use out of the camera (I'm kidding of course). She gave me her blessings... simply said "I hope you REALLY use that thing!"

Thanks for all the input!
-Gary

[Anders Östberg]

After much contemplating, the results are in: WENT WITH THE 20D! I played around with both in the store and just couldn't resist it. The feel of it was much more solid, the fast FPS rate as well as the features.... well.... I couldn't justify saving the few extra hundred bucks. Plus, next paycheck I can pick up the RebelXT body as my "back-up" anyway, so..... wish me luck with my new toy...

Anyone need a new wife? Mine just left me after she found out.... oh well... I'll probably get more use out of the camera (I'm kidding of course). She gave me her blessings... simply said "I hope you REALLY use that thing!"

Thanks for all the input!
-Gary
Can she cook? I'll trade you a good lens for her! :p

Congrats on your choice, I think it's the right one! Have fun!

[OceanView]

Congrats on the camera.

I felt the same way after I held both of them. It really helped in making the decision.

[BottomBracket]

Congratulations on your purchase! I went the 20d route too. The XT is a great camera, but I like the way the 20d nestles into my large clumsy hands.

[AXENA]

Actually, yes..... really well (Italian heritage)! What are you offering in trade?? If you have two decent L-glass for trade I'd consider it! :-)

[Anders Östberg]

:D

[Bob10]

Difference in VIEWFINDERs?
Please provide subjective user feedback on the viewfinders of the 20d and rebel xt. Some reviewers say that the xt viewfinder is "very small ...like looking at a postage stamp at the end of a tunnel.". I have no side by side comparison. Does the 20D provide a larger apparent view of the image through the viewfinder?
Thanks in Advance.

[tim]

Bob10, look at the first two links on this google query (http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&q=canon+xt+20d+viewfinder+size&btnG=Google+Search&meta=). The 2nd link (http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/digital_rebel_xt/) contains a diagram that will help you.