Are we heading towards SD for pro line bodies?

[benesotor]

Been looking at rumor sites and some people are saying bodies such as the 60D and 1d4 may only have a SD slot?
Surely this must be a mistake, anyone who owns a current DSLR would have to ditch their CF collection for SD cards, we can't buy CF>SD adapters.

Is there any reason Canon would do this, they don't even sell memory cards?

[minhi]

at this point it's just rumors, some things still in favor of cf is that they are still in larger capacities. but sd has a big advantage in terms of size for packaging in the camera.

keep in mind that 8gb sd cards are like $25 now, so you're looking at $100-$200 outlay for new cards so it's not a huge burden (imho).

[RDKirk]

I hope not, because I find those cards hard to manipulate when the situation is less than ideal.

However, memory cards are only a small proportion of the cost of a new camera, and if the camera is well worth the upgrade, then upgrading batteries and memory cards is part of the upgrade consideration.

[luigis]

Yes we are.

[Saint728]

My camera already has an SD card slot in it, although I prefer to use a CF in there instead. I guess I could use both the CF and SD as the SD card will talk up less room as a backup card.

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

[dan j]

No more bent pins! :D

dan

[sheawyatt]

I just made the switch myself to use primarily SD, mostly because I found an SD expresscard reader for my MBP, so I don't have to lug around any more accessories. The 8GB ExtremeIII's are a really good price right now...I will be keeping my CF as backup in the camera though.

[dolina]

whichever is a technical and economically better solution will replace CF memory cards. I personally hope not but if it does happen at least Macbook Pros have the slot to accept them

[DDCSD]

Man, I sure hope not. I just stuck one of my Extreme 3 SD's in my MkIIn and it kept giving me a "card locked" message. I took it out and saw that the corner of the card is busted off and the lock slider is missing. I have no clue where or how this happened. I rarely even use SD's, I only keep one in the camera in case my CF fills up.


No more bent pins! :D

dan

Have you bent a lot of pins?

[AdamJL]

Have you bent a lot of pins?

My girlfriend has a bad habit of forcing CF cards into card readers upside down, bending loads of pins :(

[DDCSD]

My girlfriend has a bad habit of forcing CF cards into card readers upside down, bending loads of pins :(

She'd probably break SD cards doing that. Maybe you should teach her that the fancy label side goes up and the lip goes down on CF cards. ;)

[dan j]

Have you bent a lot of pins?I've never bent a pin, but there's enough folks here that have.

dan

[dan j]

She'd probably break SD cards doing that. Maybe you should teach her that the fancy label side goes up and the lip goes down on CF cards. ;)
Um, you're giving her advice? ? ?
Man, I sure hope not. I just stuck one of my Extreme 3 SD's in my MkIIn and it kept giving me a "card locked" message. I took it out and saw that the corner of the card is busted off and the lock slider is missing. I have no clue where or how this happened.

:D :D :D

dan

[Duncan Frenz]

As long as the performance is there, I don't care if they use cheese for memory cards!

[dan j]

As long as the performance is there, I don't care if they use cheese for memory cards!
Yeah, that'd be gouda idea.

I crack myself up.

dan

[DDCSD]

Um, you're giving her advice? ? ?


:D :D :D

dan

Yep, I've taken CF cards out of my camera, put them in a card reader and then put them back into the camera hundreds of times and never bent a pin or broken a card. I've done the same with SD cards probably less than fifty times and somehow managed to break one without knowing that it happened. It somehow broke either in my pocket or in my card wallet, surrounded by 7 CF cards that are in perfect condition.

I am smart enough to know that when an electronic device (that is keyed so that it is very difficult to insert incorrectly) doesn't slide easily into place, you shouldn't force it.

[nphsbuckeye]

The size of the CF cards is their biggest advantage. I don't want to use tiny cards that are hard to grip and find easily.

[Tom W]

Um, you're giving her advice? ? ?


:D :D :D

dan

I'm guessing that this is best done from several states away? ;)

And here I am visiting in Florida (but Georgia is only 25 minutes away)...

[Cougar548]

The size of the CF cards is their biggest advantage. I don't want to use tiny cards that are hard to grip and find easily.

This is my main concern as well. I'm not really a fan of the size of the SD memory cards. That just makes them harder to use and easier to lose!

[Duncan Frenz]

This is my main concern as well. I'm not really a fan of the size of the SD memory cards. That just makes them harder to use and easier to lose!
I agree, but space is a rare commodity in consumer electronics, and if they can get similar performance out of a smaller card, you can bet that they are going to do it. Just wait until they start requiring microSD...

[DDCSD]

I agree, but space is a rare commodity in consumer electronics, and if they can get similar performance out of a smaller card, you can bet that they are going to do it. Just wait until they start requiring microSD...

But most people shooting pro bodies don't want their cameras to be much smaller, certainly not so small that they can't fit a CF card (or two) in them...

[Duncan Frenz]

But most people shooting pro bodies don't want their cameras to be much smaller, certainly not so small that they can't fit a CF card (or two) in them...
Not to reduce the size of the body, but to allow room for electronics for other features.

[DDCSD]

Not to reduce the size of the body, but to allow room for electronics for other features.

Ah, I see what you mean.


But still, the question is about pro line bodies. Ask most pros (people that make their living with their cameras, have deadlines, need to transmit images on-site and go through multiple CF cards a day while stuffing the spent cards loose in their pockets) and I would bet that they would rather stick with the larger CF cards.

People that stick in a card and shoot all day, all week or all month until they take the card out of the camera at home in a controlled environment don't care what kind of card is used. Pros that use the crap out of their cameras would much rather have the durability associated with a more substantial card.

Now consumer lines, go ahead and use SD or even microSD. Heck, give them 16gb of internal memory and eliminate the need for a card slot and door.

[GCGuy]

No more bent pins! :D

dan

LOL! I just had that in my 40D last month, card wouldn't go in for crap only to realize my pushing it in crooked had bent a couple middle pins. Whoops... no problems with SD in that dept.

[FeXL]

As a pro who shoots 70K-80k images a year with a II and a IIN, I find SD cards too small & fiddly. I prefer the size of CF cards, both in handling (sometimes in near dark situations) & throwing in a pocket in a hurry.

Would like to see the IV come out with dual CF slots.

Also, with thousands of CF card insertions, we've never, ever bent a pin.

[CJinAustin]

It seems like CF cards have the potential to hold a hell of a lot more memory because they are so enormous; that's my only concern,, that SD's can't keep up. Some day I imagine a 256GB CF card in each slot,,, each shot backed up by the other. Last two cards I would ever need...

Going on a 3 month safari trip to Africa shooting raw,,,?
yup got my 2 CF cards right here.

[dan j]

I don't think storage amounts will be the limitation, which I'm basing on the fact there's already 32GB MicroSD cards. I think the limitation is going to be write speeds as files get bigger with more information to be stored.

But, what do I know, I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night.

dan

[zcp m3]

It's going to be a race between SDXC and CFast.

CFast moves CF from a parallel-ATA interface (a bunch of pins) to the current SATA interface (solid connector). This means no possibility of card/connector damage, transfers up to 300Mb/s instead of the current 133Mb/s threshold, and theoretical capacities through the roof (2TB and beyond).

The problem is a CFast card slot will only accept CFast cards, which makes current CF's useless.

SDXC moves SD cards theoretical capacities up to 2TB and transfer rates up to 100Mb/s with plans to move to a max of 300Mb/s. And it maintains the current form factor and is backwards compatible with SDHC and SD.

Pro bodies are all about transfer speeds which is why CF has ruled for so long and only now is SD coming into it's own.

In the next revision of bodies I think we will still see a CF/SD slot combo, but with SDXC support, making that the primary card and CF as a backup, simply because of how many people have CF's currently. Then the revision after that will probably have dual SDXC slots to free up space for more electronics.

CFast is really shooting itself in the foot by coming to market slow and becoming non-backwards compatible by changing its connection form.

[Karl Johnston]

I hope they do. No more bent pins, less CF card faults, maybe result in better shock protection for keeping the card safe in the camera as well, and they cost next to nothing.

Some photogs spend THOUSANDS on memory cards alone. If they switched to SD that'd be 100s

[DDCSD]

The price of a good SD card is identical to the price of a similarly spec'd CF card...

Actually, at B&H's current prices, the 8gb 30mb/s Sandisk Extreme III CF card is $20 cheaper than the same SDHC card...

CF - $54
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542731-REG/SanDisk_SDCFX3_008G_A31_8GB_Extreme_III_CompactFla sh.html

SDHC - $74
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580122-REG/SanDisk_SDSDX3_008G_A31_8GB_Extreme_III_Secure.htm l

[nphsbuckeye]

I hope they do. No more bent pins, less CF card faults, maybe result in better shock protection for keeping the card safe in the camera as well, and they cost next to nothing.

Some photogs spend THOUSANDS on memory cards alone. If they switched to SD that'd be 100s
Who spends thousands? National Geographic (obviously when they're not shooting with film)?

[Twotan]

I can see spending $1000 on new cards if they change the format. But, I don't see more then that with the current pricing of cards.

[outbri]

CFast is really shooting itself in the foot by coming to market slow and becoming non-backwards compatible by changing its connection form.

They have no choice. They can't use SATA and be backwards compatible.
Their SATA transfer speeds are the only thing that makes it any good.

[Dave__C]

No one here mentioned the simple fact that CF cards are becoming somewhat rare at most stores. I went on a trip recently and realized my CF cards were back home next to the computer where I was transfering my images.

I went to several stores and found only one option for CF cards and it was overpriced and slow speed.

I only need to see this evidence to know without any doubt at all that CF is dead!

[Jim G]

No one here mentioned the simple fact that CF cards are becoming somewhat rare at most stores. I went on a trip recently and realized my CF cards were back home next to the computer where I was transfering my images.

I went to several stores and found only one option for CF cards and it was overpriced and slow speed.

I only need to see this evidence to know without any doubt at all that CF is dead!

I think that largely depends on where you are... around here any store that sells SD also sells CF. For now, at any rate.....

[F4 Cyborg]

No one here mentioned the simple fact that CF cards are becoming somewhat rare at most stores. I went on a trip recently and realized my CF cards were back home next to the computer where I was transfering my images.

I went to several stores and found only one option for CF cards and it was overpriced and slow speed.

I only need to see this evidence to know without any doubt at all that CF is dead!

If you run into that gain and have just barely enough time, you can have some overnighted from B&H, it cost's a bit. That is if there is no local Photog store near by.

[F4 Cyborg]

I'm about to purchase the wft for my DmkIII's and put a ext. HD on them. I'll just put its cable in the middle of the coiled cord from the external power for the flash unit. Only think I ponder about is how much power it is going to take from the Battery.

As for CF cards taking it to the thousand's. That's not hard to do, SAE4CF8GB 8GB Extreme IV UDMA CompactFlash $114 a pop. It does not take long to get up there. Get half dozen of them and a half dozen SD's and yer weekly allowance is all gone.

[Jacobredphoto]

No one here mentioned the simple fact that CF cards are becoming somewhat rare at most stores. I went on a trip recently and realized my CF cards were back home next to the computer where I was transfering my images.

I went to several stores and found only one option for CF cards and it was overpriced and slow speed.

I only need to see this evidence to know without any doubt at all that CF is dead!

Luckily for me, I have an XSi so I don't need CF cards right now. The Wal*Mart in my town has never carried CF cards to my knowledge. All I can ever find are SD cards.

[KenjiS]

No one here mentioned the simple fact that CF cards are becoming somewhat rare at most stores. I went on a trip recently and realized my CF cards were back home next to the computer where I was transfering my images.

I went to several stores and found only one option for CF cards and it was overpriced and slow speed.

I only need to see this evidence to know without any doubt at all that CF is dead!

In a big box store, Wal-Mart, Target and etc yes they usually have %^&$ for CF cards, but consider this, most people who go there think that Polaroid makes good digital cameras or that their brand new Nokia cameraphone is awesome quality

Most of the digital cameras in best buy shoot SD, with only one or two there that shoot compact flash, my local best buy at least has Sandisk Extreme IIIs, which while a bit pricey if i was in a pinch i dont really have a choice

Beyond that my local camera shop stocks Hoodman and Lexar cards, if i was out of town id find a small camera store to go to over a big box

Honestly, I hate SD cards, too small and hard to tell if i have one in my pocket [Which i usually do with a CF card, i have it in my pocket, i can feel it without patting my pockets and looking like a weirdo or a pervert]

Also lets not get into that SDHC thing, I remember i was going to look at photo printers so i stuck a photo on an SDHC card and then proceeded to find out that 90% of the card readers in anything at the time supported it... a card reader i bought a year later had the same issue and refused to read any 2gb+ card

I've never bent or broken a pin with any of the CF devices I've owned over the years, never had a compatability problem or anything else either with them

Do i loathe having to buy new cards? Hell yes, and I only have 3 of them [a Sandisk Extreme III 8gb, Transcend 8gb 133x and Transcend 1gb 80x] but I dont want to rebuy them all...

I'm supporting CFast more than SDXC right now, I'm fairly afraid that the same thing that happened with SDHC is going to happen with SDXC wherein old card readers will somehow be rendered obsolete...Also theres the speed thing....

I dont get where it would kill sales that much to have the xxDs support both specifically for people upgrading from an old xxD and people coming from a xxxD...That way EVERYONE is happy...

[Karl Johnston]

Who spends thousands? National Geographic (obviously when they're not shooting with film)?
Wedding photographers, Journalists and wildlife and nature photographers who spend many days in the field. Not many nat geo guys or girls use film, anymore, in fact I would say from the ones Ive met, worked alongside and learned from (3) they told me that digital was the way now and none of them would ever go back to film.

I would love to see the change to SD. I only have 2 CF cards...a 4gb and a 2gb (speed II) and they put me back 200$.
We really get ripped for the stupidest of things in Canada...I went to get the 2GB from The Bay and I REALLY needed it ...120$; *bleep* you The Bay!

[dan j]

Honestly, I hate SD cards, too small and hard to tell if i have one in my pocket [Which i usually do with a CF card, i have it in my pocket, i can feel it without patting my pockets and looking like a weirdo or a pervert]

Also lets not get into that SDHC thing, I remember i was going to look at photo printers so i stuck a photo on an SDHC card and then proceeded to find out that 90% of the card readers in anything at the time supported it... a card reader i bought a year later had the same issue and refused to read any 2gb+ card


I'm supporting CFast more than SDXC right now, I'm fairly afraid that the same thing that happened with SDHC is going to happen with SDXC wherein old card readers will somehow be rendered obsolete...Also theres the speed thing....

I dont get where it would kill sales that much to have the xxDs support both specifically for people upgrading from an old xxD and people coming from a xxxD...That way EVERYONE is happy...
:D The size complaint sounds a lot like a guy I knew who would complain about hearing aid batteries. Despite the fact that the hearing aids were smaller and more discrete he couldn't see the benefits (less distracting and no battery pack wire to fail). All he cared about was using his old full size batteries. Same thing with SD v CF in cameras. If using smaller cards means there will be more space for improvements then why not? Because you have to reach into your pocket to check ;)

From the sounds of it, CFast is going to have the same problems as SDHC has since it won't even plug into a CF reader or device. Actually, IMHO, CFast compatibility issues are a bigger deal since that's a hardware problem as opposed to a software update.

Again, if Canon can sqeeze more technology into a body or do a combo CF/SD port I would think new innovations would win out.

dan

[DDCSD]

:D The size complaint sounds a lot like a guy I knew who would complain about hearing aid batteries. Despite the fact that the hearing aids were smaller and more discrete he couldn't see the benefits (less distracting and no battery pack wire to fail). All he cared about was using his old full size batteries. Same thing with SD v CF in cameras. If using smaller cards means there will be more space for improvements then why not? Because you have to reach into your pocket to check ;)


I don't know many people that change out hearing aid batteries 5-10 times a day, outside with gloves on or in a concert pit the dark...

[FeXL]

I don't know many people that change out hearing aid batteries 5-10 times a day, outside with gloves on or in a concert pit the dark...

Thank you...

[dan j]

Well you've got me there. Pits and hearing aids don't mix.

dan

[Village_Idiot]

Can SD cards carry the same speeds? I just spent about $350 on 8gb EX IV cards (not including the rebate).

[Rocktoe]

Luckily for me, I have an XSi so I don't need CF cards right now. The Wal*Mart in my town has never carried CF cards to my knowledge. All I can ever find are SD cards.

I'm going to tough it out until they come up with a FF camera that uses SD cards so I can continue using the existing ones I have. :lol:

(Yeah, I know the image file sizes will probably be so huge by that point that I have to update my SDHC's anyway. :p)

[KenjiS]

I'm going to tough it out until they come up with a FF camera that uses SD cards so I can continue using the existing ones I have. :lol:

(Yeah, I know the image file sizes will probably be so huge by that point that I have to update my SDHC's anyway. :p)

The 1Ds Mark II uses SD cards :) and you can get a SD to CF converter, The reverse is not true...

[Rocktoe]

The 1Ds Mark II uses SD cards :) and you can get a SD to CF converter, The reverse is not true...

Ooh, well that's news to me. Thanks for the info! :)

[CJinAustin]

I think 4 SD slots in the place of a CF would be great. I would then like the option of auto-writing to a different card after each shot. I could then stick 4, 16gb cards in the camera one time, and if a card ever failed then I would only lose 25% of my photos. Also that way when you load the images into the same folder on your PC they will all still be in order as well.

Just a thought...

[KenjiS]

I think 4 SD slots in the place of a CF would be great. I would then like the option of auto-writing to a different card after each shot. I could then stick 4, 16gb cards in the camera one time, and if a card ever failed then I would only lose 25% of my photos. Also that way when you load the images into the same folder on your PC they will all still be in order as well.

Just a thought...

RAID 0 + 1 in camera form...i like :)

[F4 Cyborg]

USB hard drive just like the power pack for the flash that hangs on my belt, pussssh it in same pouch, there done.

[KenjiS]

USB hard drive just like the power pack for the flash that hangs on my belt, pussssh it in same pouch, there done.

Not a bad idea as an option...maybe..

But hard drives have moving parts and dont like being say...rolled onto, squished under my body...nor do they like running jumping or moving quickly...

And all it would take is moving slightly too hard for the head to crash into the platter and you lose all your data instantly...

Yes i know about the new ones that have the head stopping and that, but i also dont trust a hard drive with all those moving parts for this considering i usually am running around, rolling on the ground, or pressing my body against something, I think its just inviting failure

[F4 Cyborg]

check out Transcend's storjet version that drop from the second story and survive ( so they say), I use several of the as storage well for of there 250 gigerz. I write to the card's and an HD well starting as the WFT arrived today. For rowdy juz leave it in the bag. But if I figer a way to securely attach it to the bottom well maybe.

[TeamSpeed]

Since SD speeds are now at 30g/s and have some great capacities, I really do expect to see the CF market dry up in the next 18-24 months. I don't mind SD cards. Microsd cards, that is a different matter. I dropped one on the flooring at work (peppered carpet), and you couldn't find the card.

Plus they just announced a 128gb usb flash drive, which means that this will push down into the card tech as well over the next year or two.

[Jannie]

I don't like SD cards, because they are small and slow, but I don't like pins on CF cards. Possibly a more durable SD card that is fast would solve the problem, maybe even a bigger SD card.

[zcp m3]

I don't like SD cards, because they are small and slow, but I don't like pins on CF cards. Possibly a more durable SD card that is fast would solve the problem, maybe even a bigger SD card.

Look up the specs on SDXC, which was referenced in my posts above. SD speeds are catching up to CF quick. For now, even with the next gen cameras it'll be CF + SDHC. For the generation after that it's really down to which comes to market first: CFast or SDXC. And even if CFast comes to market first I have a hard time believing the camera manufacturers won't wait for SDXC because it requires no pin changes (also backwards compatible) and it saves space within the camera.

[zaathrus]

Isn't heat going to be an issue with the small size of SDXC? I'd have thought that CFast would have the advantage there.

[canonnoob]

doubtfully... honestly... I bet that the pro line would stay with the CF cards.. look at the 50d... they 50d came out and the 5d. and both use the cf cards.. The XSi, XS and everything sttarted using the sd cards... so honestly I doubt we will see a change in the pro series..

[TeamSpeed]

Funny regarding the comments here, I remember back to the days of 8-tracks, cassette tapes and vinyl compared to CDs. CDs were never going to make it mainstream, they could never really reproduce the sound quality of magnetic media or records.... :)

Ditto now on film vs digital cameras, CF vs SD, etc.

Maybe we can resurrect this thread in about 16-24 months to see where we stand! Digital storage tech is changing much too rapidly, and I expect CF has a limited life at this point. ;)

[zaathrus]

Granted, but flash memory still has physical limitations. Until we move to a different storage medium, those limitations will impact on just how compact storage can progress.

[TeamSpeed]

Same thing was said a few years ago around the MMC cards. Since then, we have gone smaller in size and larger in storage space. We have not yet hit any physical limitations at this point, Moore's law still going strong. Just look at the 16gb micro-sd cards, people still marvel at that tiny thing.... I want my next DSLR to have about 8 banks for micro-sd, wouldn't that be crazy? Just don't drop those tiny cards on a pepper-colored carpet at work, it won't be found until the cleaning crew make their rounds.

Speed right now seems to be the limiting factor, space and size are not so much.

[zaathrus]

Yeah, I know where you're going with this! (Although Moore's law doesn't apply to flash memory.) Those small cards don't have a high transfer speed though. Given the temperatures some cards get to in a USB card reader, I'm still having difficulty seeing small form factor cards working with ultra high transfer rates without some sort of heat sink present.

Believe me, I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong! Although, I quite like the idea of the CF sized cards - they're just easier to manipulate.

[F4 Cyborg]

If the components can hold up over the heat. I like my CF IV's and now have both at same time in camera. I could live with all SD if it allowed room for a larger buffer system in the camera. Or maybe 4 SD's in place of one Cf and one SD.

[TeamSpeed]

Yeah, I know where you're going with this! (Although Moore's law doesn't apply to flash memory.) Those small cards don't have a high transfer speed though. Given the temperatures some cards get to in a USB card reader, I'm still having difficulty seeing small form factor cards working with ultra high transfer rates without some sort of heat sink present.

Believe me, I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong! Although, I quite like the idea of the CF sized cards - they're just easier to manipulate.

Agreed on the card size, the SD cards get a little too small, and microSD, just insane... Just about wherever you put it, it will get lost, your desk, pocket, etc.

[Jannie]

It seems like it'd be cheaper and fewer repairs to make a camera for just SD cards and not have to fool with all of those pins. It also seems like it'd be cheaper and less troublesome to avoid the pin sockets on the CF cards as well. That said, I don't like the smallness in my hands dealing with SD cards when swapping them out in a hurry when shooting.

[randomlinh]

I'd like SD more if they beefed up the plastic. maybe sell a "pro" version. But if they can't shrink the camera, or give us dual SD in place of single CF, I don't see the point. Ok, actually, if all their cameras were SD, they'd probably save in not having to buy CF components. And pins if it really is a huge issue for their service dept.

[Twotan]

I don't mind to spend the money to make the move to SD if it is a better format then CF. But, at the end of the day I love the size of the CF cards. The SD are just too small for me. I would like to see dual CF slots in the camera's.

just my two cents.

[CJinAustin]

Dual CF or SD cards with ability to write to both cards at the same time... no more worrying about a card going bad.