Flabbergasted

[Karl Johnston]

I need some guidance and advice, but mostly a place to put this out.

I had a portrait shoot recently, it went okay...pretty smooth, took 2 days but one hour each (2 hours of time-300$). Pictures are done, processing is easy and everything's ready to be put on the CD as was requested along with the prints (80$ worth). I have the invoices printed and the tax done, it's about 400$ total.

Now here's the problem. We had a contract, she agreed to the terms, everything went smoothly in that department. Said she would pay by check or in cash, that would be okay, and to come by on Monday with it. Place is an apartment building/rental townhouse. She doesn't have a postal box number but she gave me her phone number as for contact info, and home address.

So I tried calling a couple hours ago...nothing...phone is out of service. That's odd, I think. I go by the apartment...blinds shut, kind of a mess inside, some boxes..but...nobody there. A neighbour saw me and said the woman and her kids had moved out on the weekend and had gone to live down south, but wasn't sure if they'd be back.

So I've got no way of tracking down this woman (or do I? Any ideas?) and I'm not sure how reliable the info I had was (neighbor was a bit weird)...in other words:

What do you do if your client leaves town and you have no firm way of tracking them down? Is there anywhere I can take this to or am I S.O.L? I would think its a similar scenario to when you walk out without paying your bill...would I have any luck with contacting the cops ? The way I see it I wasted my time and now I've got a bunch of useless pictures I can't use (need to mention here I forgot the model release, originally, but we agreed to have it signed and everything taken care of when she paid on monday).

??? bloody lunatics...

[hypertech]

You can send them a letter. They may have mail forwarding setup and can mail you a check and give you an address to send the pictures to.

[Karl Johnston]

I haven't got a postal address, though, can I just use the street address and see if that works? The postal office will forward it to the necessary place?

[Markitos]

I understand that you're frustrated, but stuff like that is sometimes the cost of doing business. You're always going to have some bad customers to go along with the good. You could take it to small claims court, but without knowing where she is, and considering the amount is <$400, it will most likely end up being more trouble that it's worth.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience!

[Karl Johnston]

I had a feeling it would be like that, oh well. I had a good time, and though I'm out for the work on the flip side at least I had fun.

I try to be flexible and encompassing, trustful of people I work for..but when you get taken advantage of its just "....argh..pricks"

Move on and find another client, can't let the bad times bring you down.

[heycow]

Did you give her anything yet or had you not exchanged product for money? I mean, did she only get your time at this point?

[radloser]

I have to agree with Markitos on this one. As far as the cops go, I don't know if things are different in Canada, but in the US this wouldn't be a crime. A violation of contract falls more into the civil realm. In the most local court jurisdictions in the US you would be welcome to file a small claims case against her for a small fee. The problem is getting her to court and getting her the subpoeana. I would file it and let the court try to get her there. You might get your payment after all!

[hypertech]

Small claims won't work if you can't find them. Its a total waste of time for this amount of money.

I just noticed you are in Canada. In the US, if you send a piece of mail to a person's address and they have moved and told the post office, the post office will automatically forward the mail to them. You may want to try now and then try again in a couple weeks if you have no reply in case it takes them a while to get it set up.

At least you really aren't out that much. The true cost to you is a little time wasted and some printing costs. Next time, charge a sitting fee or a deposit that they get back as print credit so at least you cover your costs if they don't show up to pay.

[BermyFunk]

google her name, find out who her family is, contact one of those people to see if they know where she went. (Everyones on facebook nowadays)

[Karl Johnston]

Did you give her anything yet or had you not exchanged product for money? I mean, did she only get your time at this point?

Nope, just time.

Small claims won't work if you can't find them. Its a total waste of time for this amount of money.

I just noticed you are in Canada. In the US, if you send a piece of mail to a person's address and they have moved and told the post office, the post office will automatically forward the mail to them. You may want to try now and then try again in a couple weeks if you have no reply in case it takes them a while to get it set up.

At least you really aren't out that much. The true cost to you is a little time wasted and some printing costs. Next time, charge a sitting fee or a deposit that they get back as print credit so at least you cover your costs if they don't show up to pay.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for, I'll try that now.

Yeah, that's where the trust part fell in this case. Normally I require a downpayment of 45%, up front. Beyond that the rest of the 55% is delivered at the end of the shoot, depending on the terms of course..sometimes in full is up front, sometimes people can't afford an instant 400$ payout. I had been told she would be paid over the weekend and wasn't able to pay the full amount in time.

The 45% is the "creative/sitting fee/booking time" and the rest is to pay for the raw goods/materials/tax.

google her name, find out who her family is, contact one of those people to see if they know where she went. (Everyones on facebook nowadays)
Thanks but I'm pretty sure that could be interpreted as borderline harassment :lol: ...

[Tom Reichner]

I would try to find & speak with the landlord. In a short conversation with them, you could probably learn whether pursuing the issue any further would be a waste of time or not.

[Karl Johnston]

I would try to find & speak with the landlord. In a short conversation with them, you could probably learn whether pursuing the issue any further would be a waste of time or not.
Never thought of that but you've got a point! Thanks Tom

[Alleh]

Collect money up front for retail work.

[ryant35]

google her name, find out who her family is, contact one of those people to see if they know where she went. (Everyones on facebook nowadays)


+1 Try her first and last name in Face Book or My Space.

[noxcuses1]

I would try to find & speak with the landlord. In a short conversation with them, you could probably learn whether pursuing the issue any further would be a waste of time or not.
Tell the landlord that you have items she ordered from you and you lost her forwarding address. Maybe the landlord will not question you and provide you with her address.

Would the post office give you the forwarding address? I don't know if they will do that.

[ryant35]

Tell the landlord that you have items she ordered from you and you lost her forwarding address. Maybe the landlord will not question you and provide you with her address.

Would the post office give you the forwarding address? I don't know if they will do that.

The post office wouldn't give you the forwarding address, but if she did set up mail forwarding, you could send a letter to her old address and it would be forwarded to her new address. That wouldn't do you any good if she didn't want the photos or to pay you, since it would be up to her to contact you back. All she would see is that you sent her a letter to the address you know of. Not that you are trying to track her down. Well at least that's how mail forwarding works here in the US.

[gravy graffix]

i do make it a policy that anything i do that's below 400-500 bucks is to be paid up front. at the minimum at least get enough upfront to cover your costs should you decide to "complete" the print order before payment, or no printing unless paid. Most places wont "special order" something in with out 50% or full payment.

But do as the others said... send a letter... if she picked up like that, maybe pics were the last thing on her mind.

[hawkeye60]

Chalk it up as a learning experience and next time get a deposit up front.

[Tigershark]

Try sending a letter with an invoice, its a long shot but unfortunately it happens. I recently received payment from a client that wrote a bad check 9 months ago. It was not worth pursuing but I did write a letter 9 mos ago and last week I had a copy of the letter and a good check, nothing else. I had already written it off. Hope things work out for you and glad you had fun

[Karl Johnston]

Went by the post office and no luck..they said they don't have a system in place for forwarding to an unknown address from just the name/previous address.

I normally ask for a payment upfront, in this case it was a trust thing...didn't really think anything of it.

I guess I'll have to be more of a stickler next time and stop being Mr. nice guy.

[Karl Johnston]

MMM I just had an e-mail from the woman!!!
Apologized for moving suddenly but it was an emergency and we will be able to do a direct deposit.

YES! 2 POINTS!

Bit exhilarating to be paid after all, I guess I jumped the gun ...still..who moves a whole family in 2 days? Oh well, thanks for all the information everyone.

I'll know for next time what to do now.

[obnoxiousmom]

^Im glad to hear that and I was about to play devils advocate in saying Ive had to make a move on the fly like that before and she would probably contact you if the pictures were special to her. Glad she did :)

[tim]

Let it go. Send her a mail/email and if she comes back to you great, if not, no bother. A few hours work isn't a big deal. Payment in advance next time!

btw $80 worth of prints is cheap for a portrait shoot. That'd get people two 6x4" prints from me if it was a portrait shoot.

[Karl Johnston]

btw $80 worth of prints is cheap for a portrait shoot. That'd get people two 6x4" prints from me if it was a portrait shoot.
Yes well you are a very established photographer that specializes in people bw!with years and years of experience...

It wasn't really that much, to be honest,
(2) 6x4s,
(1)wallet sheet and
(1) 8.5x11
with
low resolution images on disk for web use, 1 location, 4 poses.

Do you print yourself or do you order out?

[rumplepigskin]

apparently she's broke and owes others so tracking her down (especially down here in the south) won't do you any good and will probably get you in over your head...

[Karl Johnston]

apparently she's broke and owes others so tracking her down (especially down here in the south) won't do you any good and will probably get you in over your head...
Missed the second page?:lol:

[Tigershark]

Everyone you aren't reading the all the posts, he has been contacted and is getting paid, good ending and congrats karl!

[airfrogusmc]

Karl I'm glad it worked out.

[hypertech]

MMM I just had an e-mail from the woman!!!
Apologized for moving suddenly but it was an emergency and we will be able to do a direct deposit.

YES! 2 POINTS!

Bit exhilarating to be paid after all, I guess I jumped the gun ...still..who moves a whole family in 2 days? Oh well, thanks for all the information everyone.

I'll know for next time what to do now.

What do you mean by direct deposit? Do NOT give this person your bank account information.

Its sketchy that she suddenly moved in the middle of the night. The last thing you want is to have them steal your identity and drain your account too.

[ToddR]

Um, yeah...one-off customers don't need your ACH information!

[Karl Johnston]

What do you mean by direct deposit? Do NOT give this person your bank account information.

Its sketchy that she suddenly moved in the middle of the night. The last thing you want is to have them steal your identity and drain your account too.
Oh don't worry, they don't see my information..I think I used the wrong word, maybe "bank to bank transfer?" was what I was going for. Basically you call the bank and transfer money from your account into hers, or in her case vise versa. The bank handles your info, you just give the authorization and proof that it's you.

I thought you cant do anything with an account number alone, can you?

[hypertech]

Yes you can. Tell her to get a money order and mail it to you or something.

It may go down fine, but it smells bad.

[Metalstrm]

How did it go Karl?

Hopefully you got paid and all.

[ChrisRabior]

It's funny how the first thing we all jump to is the most negative.. and we all assume she just skipped town to avoid paying.

Who moves a family in a day? I know a family that moved in a single afternoon to escape from the mother's abusive boyfriend, and you can be sure they took every precaution nobody would be able to track down their forwarding address.

Sometimes life throws curves.

Glad to see your arrangement with her is going to work out.

[The Mack]

Collect money up front for retail work.
+1
Especially with prints.

[jenirose3]

+1
Especially with prints.

+2

Everything PIF.

[lyonsdennn]

just dont worry about it. it sucks but there is nothing you can do with out completely wasting all of your time... : / just accept your losses and next time make sure you receive some form of payment up front :) perhaps 25%...

[Karl Johnston]

Arranged to be paid on Sunday (cash), as she's coming back up here around then to pick up some stuff.

Normally I require at least a 45-60% down payment before the session takes place, (holding fee) though in this case I just said 'whatever' because she didn't have the cash prepared up front.

I sometimes do that out of trust, though from this experience I will be more stiff about that policy.