Portrait Lighting - losing my mind

[serissolutions]

Ok after my last photo shoot I could not rest until I got my lighting right. Such a noob!

Since photography is a hobby, I could not justify the rediculous prices for studio lighting so I am using garage flood lights (1000 watts each), umbrella diffusers and home made barn doors and snoot! (Ok go ahead and laugh). Total $130

Here is my set up and the results.

Please note: She was not posing at all, just sitting there for a light test. No need to critique the shot, just the lighting please.

My setup:
http://www.serissolutions.com/photos/studio4.jpg


Test portrait, no makeup, no pose. This was just a light test.
http://www.serissolutions.com/photos/studioshot4.jpg


Am I there? Do I have a workable light set up?

[RbrtPtikLeoSeny]

hahahaha creative!!! I'm not sure about the lighting..... not very knowledgable in that area, but good job being creative! I thought about using the same type of lights.

[Curtis N]

The pretty girl in the photos looks as excited as my wife when I ask her to sit for my "experiments."

Seriously, I'm a "studio cheapskate" too. I'm trying to put together a lighting setup in much the same manner. Are the umbrellas from a photo supply store or just regular "keep the rain off your head" umbrellas? I'm having trouble finding white umbrellas at Wal*Mart. How did you attach the umbrellas to the fixtures (I'm trying to find the right hardware)? How many total watts do you have going there? Is there a fire extinguisher close by?

[Doug Rowan]

The lights will work if you change a couple of things (and probably have this thread moved to another forum). As in, your main light should be to one side and 2-3 stops brighter than the fill. The fill light is the one closest to the camera. The closer the diffused lights are to the subject, the "softer" the lighting effect..etc. Without getting into so much detail that it's too hard to follow...here's a post to a LOT of studio lighting links: http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=32299&forum_id=54

Hope I didn't break any rules posting the link...

[Belmondo]

The lights will work if you change a couple of things (and probably have this thread moved to another forum).

Good suggestion on moving the thread, Doug.

Shazam!!! It's moved. :lol:

Tom

[serissolutions]

The pretty girl in the photos looks as excited as my wife when I ask her to sit for my "experiments."

Seriously, I'm a "studio cheapskate" too. I'm trying to put together a lighting setup in much the same manner. Are the umbrellas from a photo supply store or just regular "keep the rain off your head" umbrellas? I'm having trouble finding white umbrellas at Wal*Mart. How did you attach the umbrellas to the fixtures (I'm trying to find the right hardware)? How many total watts do you have going there? Is there a fire extinguisher close by?

1) Yes it is a photo translucent umbrella. I got it on ebay for $5.99 USD
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30082&item=7512843778&rd=1

2) The flood lights have a handle in the middle for carrying. I attached the umbrellas to that handle with wire ties (hahahaha).. It works...

3) Each light has 500 watts. The light tripod you see in the pic holds 2 lights

4) hahahah! No fire extinguisher needed man.. Just a trip to the breaker panel once in a while...

[serissolutions]

The lights will work if you change a couple of things (and probably have this thread moved to another forum). As in, your main light should be to one side and 2-3 stops brighter than the fill. The fill light is the one closest to the camera. The closer the diffused lights are to the subject, the "softer" the lighting effect..etc. Without getting into so much detail that it's too hard to follow...here's a post to a LOT of studio lighting links: http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=32299&forum_id=54

Hope I didn't break any rules posting the link...

Wait, I dont understand... Which is the main light? I always thought of my diffused lights as the main lights. Do you mean the Hard Light? Am I using the wrong terminology?

Here is a diagram, please explain

http://www.serissolutions.com/photos/setup.gif

[jimsolt]

Wait, I dont understand... Which is the main light? I always thought of my diffused lights as the main lights. Do you mean the Hard Light? Am I using the wrong terminology?

Here is a diagram, please explain

http://www.serissolutions.com/photos/setup.gif

There are hard lights and diffused lights. There are also main lights and fill lights, etc. You are using the terms as if they are interchangeable. They are not. Hard and diffused(soft) refer to the type of light. Main(key) and fill describe the placement and use of the light.

Not overly complicated -- at least in theory -- but getting the terms right is a help in discussing it.

For a starter, keep it simple --- one light with reflector, etc. Adding more lights creates more problems for a beginner.

Jim

[serissolutions]

There are hard lights and diffused lights. There are also main lights and fill lights, etc. You are using the terms as if they are interchangeable. They are not. Hard and diffused(soft) refer to the type of light. Main(key) and fill describe the placement and use of the light.

Not overly complicated -- at least in theory -- but getting the terms right is a help in discussing it.

For a starter, keep it simple --- one light with reflector, etc. Adding more lights creates more problems for a beginner.

Jim

Problem is I tried that. I tried one light and I have a 42" 5 in one reflector. I got shadows galore man...

So I bought one more light, then one more, then one more then one more... Soon my basement will be as bright as the sun and I will still have shadows...
nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

[tim]

Shadows are good, I don't like flat lighting. Very creative job with the lighting, I wish I had space for that.

I'd recommend getting a studio lighting book, though it looks like you have at least some idea already - more than me anyway. I found one at the local library and found it quite interesting, though largely irrelevant since I don't have a studio. The white field and black field guide to lighting glass was interesting though, and works quite well.

[mjordan]

To be honest, your lighting is way overkill and that's not a scowl she's giving you, she's squinting because she can't see. You have about the equivalent of full noon day sunlight blazing around her. You can almost see tan lines forming. :D

The problem with these lights are, that even with the umbrellas, the lights are blasting through them in a very uncontrollable pattern that makes it hard to tell the fill from the hair from the main light. You would have better control if you got some of the aluminum reflectors at Home Depot and use either frosted white bulbs (the more frosted the better) at about 200 watts each or even the cool white floresent spiral bulbs. The only problem with the cool white is they only come in about 60 or maybe 100 watt bulbs. With the aluminum reflectors you will have more control of your lights and you might even get a smile out of her. ;)

With cooler lights you can move them in closer, giving you softer light. A lot of newbies think that you have to move lights away from the subject to get soft light. That's exactly opposite. The closer the light and the bigger the light source (hence the use of umbrellas) the softer the light will be because it's producing less shadows... or there is less difference between the directly lighted side and the non-directly unlighted side. So you want to get your umbrellas in as close as you can, say even as close as a couple of feet. But you can't do that with your barn burners there.

Oh, and the aluminum reflectors are cheaper than the work lights too. ;)

Mike

[Nabil-A]

/ttp://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=32299&forum_id=54 (http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=32299&forum_id=54)

Hope I didn't break any rules posting the link...

Hey great link, just starting out in the studio lighting side of things and was looking for some great info, have plenty of weekend reading \

Thanks. :) :)

[Curtis N]

I count 7 lights at 500 watts each - that's 3,500 watts, or 30 amps at 115 volts! The money you save on equipment you may need to pay your electric bill!

Remember that by moving a light source in to half the distance, you multiply the light on the subject by 4x (2 stops). As others have stated, moving in also makes the light more diffuse, since the umbrella will be "bigger" from the subject's perspective.

Another thing that occured to me - Maybe try turning the umbrellas around, using the light that reflects from them rather than what blasts through them.

Keep experimenting. Thomas Edison would be proud!

[Doug Rowan]

Wait, I dont understand... Which is the main light? I always thought of my diffused lights as the main lights. Do you mean the Hard Light? Am I using the wrong terminology?

Here is a diagram, please explain

http://www.serissolutions.com/photos/setup.gif

Ok...just as an example, I am posting this image of a setup I used to test a new camera. I only used hot lights & I've used similar setups for many portraits too...BTW, the black umbrella (silver interior) was reflecting my main light.

http://images.snapfish.com/34382%3C4%3B23232%7Ffp58%3Dot%3E2337%3D644%3D%3A%3 B3%3DXROQDF%3E23237535%3B4668ot1lsi

You ususally want your main light to one side & above the subject (to emulate sunlight...and a Tim said, shadows are not a bad thing). The fill light (or reflector) is used to soften any harsh shadows on the front of the object (or person). Personally, I wouldn't mess with hair lights (and other lights) until I figured out the Main/Fill light formula.

[DocFrankenstein]

The lights will work if you change a couple of things (and probably have this thread moved to another forum). As in, your main light should be to one side and 2-3 stops brighter than the fill.
SSs - this mean that the left soft light must be 4-8 times brighter than the right soft light...

Right now you have them equal to each other... and that's called flat (boring) lighting.

And do experiments with one light only... cause with 4 lights it's a mess and you get confused.

Save your wife for the actual modeling, get yourself a plastic/rubber substitute. :lol: (no thoughts please) Basically a manequen's head and do exercises...

Light it with a single hard light from every possible angle...

Rotate the head, light it again...

Then try just 2 lights, gradually increasing the difference between the light intensities...

And get a book on studio lighting and read up on the basics, on terminology at least. This way you'll be able to interpret the advice.

Cheers

[toddb]

Flat. I agree, experiment moving one farther away and one closer to get that light ratio difference.

I started with those shop lights...just way to hot for my poor little ones, plus with no AC, everyone started sweating anyway. I've moved to one flash unit with a softbox...just recently I've moved up to one light and the reflector, woohoo! Personally, I like the dynamic lighting that one light and a little bit of a reflector has. The biggest thing I notice about moving from these shop light to a studio light is that the studio light can be easily adjusted. Plus, as you can see from my last post, my little model knows when to make a new facial expression when the light flashes, lol.

Really, you know what made the real impact on my portrait images.
1/125sec f/11 ISO:100.

I've tried using one of my shop light as a hair light (my trouble spot with my only background that is black) but it just doesn't show up, the flash must be way more powerful. I don't remember being able to stop down to f/11 or f/13 easily like I do with the one flash unit I have now. I figure I still have several months of experimenting before I'm ready for the two light setup (ok, really it's until I pay off some of debt from the last light purchase). But to conclude, I've seen it done with shop lights, so I know you can do it. You have the will, so you will find the way. Maybe someone will post that shop light post of the nudes, that guy seemed to have it down pretty good. Keep posting, I'm interesting how you will set this up.

[robertwgross]

Don't laugh. I have the same light setup as the original poster. Yellow stands with quartz halogen lamps. Some have two lamps on top, and some have a single lamp on top. I built all of my own reflectors and snoots out of thin aluminum sheeting from Home Depot.

Sure, all that electricity costs money. But then you don't have to worry about heating your studio in the winter season.

---Bob Gross---

[DocFrankenstein]

I think you can put a 30 dollar large diameter fan near the window and be done with it. :)

[mgbeach]

what about the possibility of putting dimmer switches on the hot lights so that you could adjust the ratios a bit? Not sure if I've ever seen one that can handle 500w, but maybe there are some out there.

[Salleke]

what about the possibility of putting dimmer switches on the hot lights so that you could adjust the ratios a bit? Not sure if I've ever seen one that can handle 500w, but maybe there are some out there.

You can get dimmers of any power even for several KW. I think that with dimming the lights you change the light temperature from the dimmed lights. So you will have some light be at lower temperature then others. If your light is mixed in temperature i don't now if you can compensate this perfectly with the CWB in your camera.
If some lights are to strong you can try to put some white cloths at a safe distant in front of the lights. That way you get a nice diffiusion to.
Maybe someone else can tell more about this?

[Longwatcher]

One thing that might help really fast is swap diffuse light 1 with your hard light.
This will make your hard light your main, diffuse 2 your fill. I think the pictures will look much better with just that change.

Just a quick thought.

even though I have Alien Bees, I keep one 500 watt halogen work light (bouncing off ceiling) for adding a slight color and to provide enough light so my camera will auto focus correctly.

[serissolutions]

SSs - this mean that the left soft light must be 4-8 times brighter than the right soft light...

Right now you have them equal to each other... and that's called flat (boring) lighting.

And do experiments with one light only... cause with 4 lights it's a mess and you get confused.

Save your wife for the actual modeling, get yourself a plastic/rubber substitute. :lol: (no thoughts please) Basically a manequen's head and do exercises...

Light it with a single hard light from every possible angle...

Rotate the head, light it again...

Then try just 2 lights, gradually increasing the difference between the light intensities...

And get a book on studio lighting and read up on the basics, on terminology at least. This way you'll be able to interpret the advice.

Cheers

Wow! Thanx for the tips