I need help with my IR filter.

[phisch22]

In the last few months, I have gotten interested in IR digital photography. So I went looking for a filter and found the hoya IR filter and tried it. I had no problems with the hoya, but I wanted to use this filter for my lens with a 72mm rim and found that it would cost me an aditionaly 200. A friend of mine pointed me towards the Cokin filter system, so I turned my hoya back in for a refund. I got the cokin p serries and eventualy found the P serries IR gel that cokin offers. A few days ago, I went to try it and the results disapointed me...greatly.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/phisch22/10_seconds.jpg

10 seconds long exposure.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/phisch22/20_seconds.jpg

20 seconds long exposure.

As you can tell, it just looks like a stong red filter is on the lens and not the effects of IR.

I was thinking mabey some light was leaking through the sides, but I'm not sure. I was wounding if anyone can help me with this issue. Any help will be grealy appreciated

My camera (http://josynet.com/?go=camera) is the Digital Rebel.

[phisch22]

Anyone with any info on these...please help me?

[PhotosGuy]

It looks like you have the IR effect in the leaves. Conkin should provide some info on the technique to be used with the filter, but it looks to me as if you need to convert the pic top B&W?
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=photography&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=IR&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images

[phisch22]

Opps, I forgot to mention the leaves were actualy white flower buds on the trees.But yeah, I'll check cokin's site for any info. thank you.

[mdclaros]

I guess the digital rebel is not good for IR photography.
Search on google for forums on IR photography and youll find a lot of info on that

[dewmuw]

Did you use a custom white balance before you shot these? Easy test is to get a white piece of paper and hold it in front of the lens and take a CWB off it.

Works for me anyway.

I can't talk about the rebel as I have a G3 - but I always have results that need a lot of post processing.

[phisch22]

I guess the digital rebel is not good for IR photography.

I have goten some good results with IR on my Rebel using the Hoya IR filter.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/phisch22/quick2.jpg

As you can see here, it worked with the hoya. But I wanted to use the Cokin one, but it doesn't work to well.

Did you use a custom white balance before you shot these? Easy test is to get a white piece of paper and hold it in front of the lens and take a CWB off it.

I'll have to give that a shot dewmuw, thanks.

[Ken Fong]

I think this red overtone is similar to results I got with a 20D and similar filter. I used the same filter on a film camera (with IR film) and got the desired effect (no red overtone).
To eliminate the red overtone in your digital picture, you can adjust the levels in Photoshop. The digital SLRs may not be great for IR work, but I think you can get it close. Some users have had problems with flare in the center...but I'm not sure if that's a lens or sensor issue.

[phisch22]

I think this red overtone is similar to results I got with a 20D and similar filter. I used the same filter on a film camera (with IR film) and got the desired effect (no red overtone).
To eliminate the red overtone in your digital picture, you can adjust the levels in Photoshop. The digital SLRs may not be great for IR work, but I think you can get it close. Some users have had problems with flare in the center...but I'm not sure if that's a lens or sensor issue.

I know how to get rid of the red over tone. My problem is that even when I do that, the grass and anything else that was green on the subject isn't turning out into a white tone in the finished IR pictures. It jus looks like a heavy red filter has been placed on it, like it isn't a deep enough red or something.

I think I'm going to e-mail someone from canon because this seems to be confusing everyone I seem to ask.

[Longwatcher]

I did some quick research so my facts may not be correct, but it appears that the cokin filter has a shallower cutoff then the Hoya filters, which have a relatively steep cutoff (although not as steep as some others). Although the Hoya R72 and the Cokin P-series seem to have the same cutoff. What this means is that the cokin filter probably lets in more red light then the Hoya does. That explains why you are starting to get IR effect with the longer exposure. One of the comments I read was you may need to put two cokin filters together.

It looks like your Hoya R72 was working good (it has for my 10D, 1DsMkII, and XL-2, but not my D60). I would plan on going back to that and save to get the larger filter and step-up rings to use on other lenses. You know that works.

In the meantime, play with your cokin filter on some other lenses to see what happens and if that makes any difference.

[phisch22]

Thanks for the help Longwatcher. I think I might want to try and get another cokin IR filter like you said and test that out, if that doesn't work, then I'm going to return the IR filters and not worry about IR for now. I could get the 52mm R72 filter again because it's only about $50, but the one for my 72mm lens is about $200 something. I currently don't have the money (http://postfiking.com/?go=money&url=http%3A%2F%2Fphotography-on-the.net%2Fforum%2Fnewreply.phpFT) to do that right now.

Thanks again,

~SCF

[rammy]

In the last few months, I have gotten interested in IR digital photography. So I went looking for a filter and found the hoya IR filter and tried it. I had no problems with the hoya, but I wanted to use this filter for my lens with a 72mm rim and found that it would cost me an aditionaly 200. A friend of mine pointed me towards the Cokin filter system, so I turned my hoya back in for a refund. I got the cokin p serries and eventualy found the P serries IR gel that cokin offers. A few days ago, I went to try it and the results disapointed me...greatly

The Cokin P Series gel filter IS NOT a true IR filter. It is a RED filter for B/W pictures. Cokin actually say this in their brochures, which is why I did not buy it. I have the Hoya IR filter.

True IR gel filters are expensive! Get the screw-in one from Hoya instead, that is a true IR filter!

[phisch22]

The Cokin P Series gel filter IS NOT a true IR filter. It is a RED filter for B/W pictures. Cokin actually say this in their brochures, which is why I did not buy it. I have the Hoya IR filter.

True IR gel filters are expensive! Get the screw-in one from Hoya instead, that is a true IR filter!


Well, that's a kick in the...well you know. So your saying, the hoya screw in is ultimatly cheaper then. Thanks for the info, I guess I just have to save up for the screw in one then. Again, I thank you for the info, saves me a lot of time and effort towards figuring this out.

~SCF

[suse]

Hi

I'd be interested to know what the exif details are on the Hoya filter shot. Was it shot in raw?

I've had a similar thing. I bought a Hoya R72 IR filter for my Canon G5 and Canon 20D. It came out pretty much the same as your first shots...like a red filter. I thought this was normal...and that I just had to use Capture One and CS to adjust everything? (I shoot in raw usually)

I don't know what to think now... is it meant to be like this? Below is a shot taken with the 20d and kit lens 18-55mm. The red colourings were the same on the G5 (which I thought was supposed to be good for IR....)

These were just test shots - in hardly ideal conditions for infrared, as it was quite windy. I'm hoping to use the filter on my 100mm macro, not the lens kit btw. Any comments welcome.

[Longwatcher]

Remember that the IR region is next to the Red region and that the Hoya R72 still lets in some red light, so that:
All of the red filtered pixels will have the strongest results, the Blue and Green filtered pixels will only have the light that gets through the filters (both Hoya and sensor's IR filter) anyway so what little they record will probably be true IR data, but it will be overwhelmed by the Red in the Bayer interpolation (turning RAW data into picture)

So you need to shift the data, thus using the tools of Photoshop and like software.

The end result is that if the green leaves are turning white, you are picking up near IR portion of the spectrum more then red portion of spectrum, which would provide a more grey look to the leaves. You will also see some clothing change tones (like light to dark or vice versus). If the tone of the materials in the scene look the same as a normal shot, then you are probably not getting enough IR through to overwhelm the RGB data.

I am having trouble explaining this for some reason, so if it makes no sense, my appologises. I know what is happening, but having trouble explaining it right now.

If they didn't have that annoying (when doing IR) filter as part of the sensor, we could get really clear IR shots. When I think of doing IR photography I think I should maybe try to get a 20Da, but I wouldn't be happy unless I could get them to also lose the bayer filter for a true black and white camera. True plug in filtering would be even better.

Just my memory, possibly bad explaination and a bit of rambling.

Almost forgot, kind of a cool shot Suse

[rammy]

I guess the digital rebel is not good for IR photography.


Says who?

[phisch22]

I understand what you are saying longwatcher. The problem with mine is that the filter I am using is still letting a good amount of red light onto the sensor, so the red in the picture over exposes the sensor befor the sensor can even get the proper amount of IR waves. I'm thinking of buying a second one of these filters and testing it out. I hope it works, if it doesn't, then I'm just going to return it. I wish I could just get the hoya R72, they are so nice and work perfectly.

Those shots you did suse are exactly what you want to get with an IR shot, with the green looking white in the finished product.

[Longwatcher]

Just to be picky, it should be the green LEAVES looking white, not green. green dyed cotton cloth will tend towards more of a grey (depending on die used).

It is the cholorfil? in the leaves which gives the IR effect if I remember right.
That is why IR is so cool because it allows you to see things differently.

[phisch22]

Yeah, not only that, it also makes the blue in the sky darker so it contrast very nicly with the white clouds. IR is pretty much the ultimate outdoor photographers image effect because of how the sky and plants look.

[ekrunaj]

Just to be picky, it should be the green LEAVES looking white, not green. green dyed cotton cloth will tend towards more of a grey (depending on die used).

It is the cholorfil? in the leaves which gives the IR effect if I remember right.
That is why IR is so cool because it allows you to see things differently.
The process of photosynthesis gives you green leaves appearing as white in IR images. It is more obvious with the leaves of deciduous (leafy) trees than the needles of coniferous trees.This is maximised by making the images when sunlight is brightest, such as mid-day.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Custom White balance..

[superstar]

Try hitting auto levels and auto color correction in Photoshop. That will take care of the red. Or do a custom white balance. You get different effects from each of those. I got my IR filter last weekend and am still playing around with it.


Richard

[malacoda]

As I understand it, it's quite normal for your images to appear red, as they need plenty of post processing. Try opening your first image, (the best exposed one) into photoshop. Reduce the saturation to 0, turning the image essentially black and white. Adjust the levels, to boost the leaves into a bright white, and your shadows to black. And there you go! Your first IR image. Sometimes it helps to set your white balance to "fluorescent" or similar. Play around with the levels etc and you'll get success.

[nyy]

IR photos will require PP to get certain effects. And PP is absolutely necessary if you use AWB.