Soft or Hard... how do you like your grads

[robonrome]

I'm about to lash out on some Lee Grad Neutral density filters for landscape photography.

I'm really torn as to whether to get the Hard or the Soft transition kits.

What's the view out there for which is best for general landscape usage... hard or soft?

[Needsnow]

It totally depends on what you are taking a picture of. Definite transition lines, like ocean to sky, use hard typically. Mountain scenes with lots of layers, use soft, typically.

[Hangbot]

Soft for general and wide landscape

Hard for when the horizon is in the shot, or with a telephoto.

[robonrome]

so I need both ?

[scot079]

I bought the hitechs and after playing w/ a .3 and a .6, I found that they weren't dark enough for me even when stacked. So I have a 1.2 now that I use all the time and the other 2 just sit and collect dust.

Moral: It'd be nice to play with them before you buy them to see which ones you want. If you can't do that, I'd just purchase one at a time, test it and keep or return it.

PS - I'm a softie

[Jon]

so I need both ?
Yes, and the recommended strengths are 2 stop and 3 stop for general purposes.

[Hangbot]

It'd be nice to play with them before you buy them to see which ones you want. If you can't do that, I'd just purchase one at a time, test it and keep or return it.

So true...I ended up selling my hard GND as I used it so rarely. I do bring my .9 soft GND everywhere though:)

[robonrome]

thanks guys, I'm thinking maybe I'll start with a pair, a 2 stop hard and a 3 stop soft and go from there. :-)

[argyle]

It totally depends on what you are taking a picture of. Definite transition lines, like ocean to sky, use hard typically. Mountain scenes with lots of layers, use soft, typically.

That's the general take, but I find myself using a hard gradient more often than a soft, even when I may have trees poking through the gradient. Reason being...its much easier in post to "clean up" the grad line when using a hard filter by dodging whatever it is that is poking through. The hard grad is more consistent, whereas the soft tends to disperse pretty rapidly, making it more difficult to do any clean-up due to the variation in density at or near the gradient.

[jcothron]

That's the general take, but I find myself using a hard gradient more often than a soft, even when I may have trees poking through the gradient. Reason being...its much easier in post to "clean up" the grad line when using a hard filter by dodging whatever it is that is poking through. The hard grad is more consistent, whereas the soft tends to disperse pretty rapidly, making it more difficult to do any clean-up due to the variation in density at or near the gradient.


That's interesting I'm exactly the opposite. I see what you mean however.

[gixxer]

I use both, soft grads can be a little more forgiving as not to leave a distict grad line in the image but if you are shooting at sunrise or sunset a hard grad works much better imo.

[tigerotor77w]

Yes, and the recommended strengths are 2 stop and 3 stop for general purposes.

Does it matter if you do the 2 as soft or the 3 as soft?

thanks guys, I'm thinking maybe I'll start with a pair, a 2 stop hard and a 3 stop soft and go from there. :-)

You had mentioned Lee... did you consider Singh-Rays at all? Are you going with a holder, and if so, what type?

That's the general take, but I find myself using a hard gradient more often than a soft, even when I may have trees poking through the gradient. Reason being...its much easier in post to "clean up" the grad line when using a hard filter by dodging whatever it is that is poking through. The hard grad is more consistent, whereas the soft tends to disperse pretty rapidly, making it more difficult to do any clean-up due to the variation in density at or near the gradient.

Interesting points to consider. Thanks for your replies (in both threads, btw -- it's good for me to get out of my comfort zone in taking pictures :)).

[Jon]

Does it matter if you do the 2 as soft or the 3 as soft?
Eventually, you'll want hard and soft in both settings; personally, I think that if you're getting one of each that a 2 stop soft and a 3 stop hard might be more useful than the other way around.

[robonrome]

[quote=tigerotor77w;8182136]
You had mentioned Lee... did you consider Singh-Rays at all? Are you going with a holder, and if so, what type?

[quote]

I did, but the cost is a lot more. I will be looking to get one of the Sing-Ray reverse grads down the track.

I ended up (for better or worse) ordering a Lee hard 0.45 (1.5stop) and a Lee soft 0.9 (stop). Seems there's a production delay on the Lee holder so I may opt for the Cokin Z holder.

thanks for all the helpful replies

[scot079]

Seems there's a production delay on the Lee holder so I may opt for the Cokin Z holder

I wouldn't do that seeing as the Cokin is a bona fide piece of, well it's not well made, let's say that.

Until the Lee holder is available, I'm using velcro and rubber bands which will last longer than the Cokin Z-pro holder.

[slitherjef]

Did not vote since each has their own use. Besides, I got a 3 stop soft and a 2 stop reverse :D

[argyle]

[quote=tigerotor77w;8182136]
You had mentioned Lee... did you consider Singh-Rays at all? Are you going with a holder, and if so, what type?

[quote]

I did, but the cost is a lot more. I will be looking to get one of the Sing-Ray reverse grads down the track.

I ended up (for better or worse) ordering a Lee hard 0.45 (1.5stop) and a Lee soft 0.9 (stop). Seems there's a production delay on the Lee holder so I may opt for the Cokin Z holder.

thanks for all the helpful replies

My advice would be to wait for the Lee holder...it is that much better of a design than the Z-Pro from Cokin. I'm sure that it can't take that long for the Lee to become more readily available. You can always hand hold the filter in front of the lens on a short-term basis...I still do this at times myself.

[bps]

That's the general take, but I find myself using a hard gradient more often than a soft, even when I may have trees poking through the gradient. Reason being...its much easier in post to "clean up" the grad line when using a hard filter by dodging whatever it is that is poking through. The hard grad is more consistent, whereas the soft tends to disperse pretty rapidly, making it more difficult to do any clean-up due to the variation in density at or near the gradient.

Very good point -- this is something that I haven't considered before and it totally makes sense.

Thanks! I'm going to apply this principal next time the situation presents itself.

Bryan

[argyle]

Very good point -- this is something that I haven't considered before and it totally makes sense.

Thanks! I'm going to apply this principal next time the situation presents itself.

Bryan

It works. Here's an example where I angled a hard grad to follow the natural shadow line at the base of the buttes. The only clean-up that I had to do in post was to lightly dodge the treetops that were above the grad line. I was able to do this without having to keep changing the opacity of the layer since the grad was consistent along that line...about 10-seconds of dodging is all that it took.

http://northlake.smugmug.com/photos/562652974_Jix8x-L.jpg

[tigerotor77w]

Eventually, you'll want hard and soft in both settings; personally, I think that if you're getting one of each that a 2 stop soft and a 3 stop hard might be more useful than the other way around.

Gotcha; thanks.

I did, but the cost is a lot more. I will be looking to get one of the Sing-Ray reverse grads down the track.

Oh! I thought $Lee > $Singh-Ray. Looks like I have them mixed.

Until the Lee holder is available, I'm using velcro and rubber bands which will last longer than the Cokin Z-pro holder.

Seems like I may have to go this route as well... can you elaborate on what makes the Z-Pros not very durable?

[scot079]

Seems like I may have to go this route as well... can you elaborate on what makes the Z-Pros not very durable?

Sure.

- For starters, it doesn't feel solid in your hand. I haven't handled the Lee holder but if going on reviews/comments from others the Lee is a 24-70L where the Cokin is a 50 1.8, referring to build quality.

- There are 3 little pins in the Cokin that "secure" the holder to the adapter ring. 2 of these fell out of the holder in a matter of days. I lost them, so now the holder would separate from the adapter ring if I still used it.

- That's all the specific nits I have w/ the Cokin Z-Pro. My velcro/rubber band setup is more convenient and doesn't vignette @ 10mm on 50D.

Here's some pics, I don't have a second camera to take pictures of the rubber band setup. I use them when I want to attach a GND over either of my slim CPLs (no front threads so the adapter ring is not used). I attach a second piece of velcro w/ 5 rubber bands linked together (or you could use 1 long band/elastic) to each piece of velcro on the GND then wrap the bands around the camera on it's tripod. See drawing below

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264/scot079/IMG_9155.png

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264/scot079/IMG_9157.png

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264/scot079/rubberband.png

[Lowner]

I've got hard and soft Cokin grads and much prefer the hard transition as I find the soft just too "woolly".

I like the Cokin holder, it's simple and I think well designed. I dont like complicated "overdesigned" equipment, preferring things that do one job but do it well.

[argyle]

Sure.

- For starters, it doesn't feel solid in your hand. I haven't handled the Lee holder but if going on reviews/comments from others the Lee is a 24-70L where the Cokin is a 50 1.8, referring to build quality.

- There are 3 little pins in the Cokin that "secure" the holder to the adapter ring. 2 of these fell out of the holder in a matter of days. I lost them, so now the holder would separate from the adapter ring if I still used it.

- That's all the specific nits I have w/ the Cokin Z-Pro. My velcro/rubber band setup is more convenient and doesn't vignette @ 10mm on 50D.


Happened to me too...luckily I found them. Not to mention the first filter slot nearest the lens is not usable because of the said pins the protrude into that space...you're forced to reverse the holder, reducing it to a single-slot holder. So combining two filters and keeping them as close to the lens as possible doesn't work in this orientation. Its also more prone to vignetting than the Lee. These are the reasons why I switched to Lee a long time ago...give me the spring-loaded clip over those tiny pins any day of the week.

[Lowner]

Pins? My Cokin holder is a plain plastic moulding in a single piece, but then it is a "P", not a "Z" series. However it surprises me that they are so different. Overdesigned for the job if it has to have detachable pins.

[scot079]

Pins? My Cokin holder is a plain plastic moulding in a single piece, but then it is a "P", not a "Z" series. However it surprises me that they are so different. Overdesigned for the job if it has to have detachable pins.

These pins aren't designed to be detachable, the fact that they detach is the problem. They push in/out to release the filter holder from the adapter ring, and the way they fit in their slot just aint quite right!

[tigerotor77w]

That's all the specific nits I have w/ the Cokin Z-Pro. My velcro/rubber band setup is more convenient and doesn't vignette @ 10mm on 50D.

Sweet -- thanks for the clarifications!