Ballhead base diameter and Gitzo column plate fitting confusion.

[alishakarchi]

Hi

I'm looking at getting a a ball head (such as Arca-Swiss Z1DP, RSS, Markins) and a Gitzo Mountaineer GT2541 or possibly GT3541 tripod. My normal kit comprises a Canon 5DmkII + 70-200 f2.8 IS, 24-70 f2.8, so not so hugely heavy, although I also have a Mamiya 645AFD kit. I hike mountains a lot and shoot landscapes in all conditions, this will be my first decent tripod setup, so I want to get it right. Obviously, I want it to be light, but don't want want to regret stability issues.

Anyway, I'm a little confused about fitting a non-Gitzo head to the Gitzo tripod column plate (Power Disc). It seems that most 3rd party ballhead base diameters' are wider than the Gitzo column plate to the tripods, which I believe is only 60mm.

So my question is, does that mean that the ball head is not going to work on these Gitzo's, or is it ok for ballhead base to 'overhang' the column plate disc? (base diameters areZ1/69mm, M20/68mm, BH-55 73mm)

Should I only be considering a Gitzo Systematic range like the GT3541LS, which as the whole tripod base to accommodate the Z1?

Finally, I've seen several posts on column vs no column tripods, and I see attraction to the GT3541LS. I'm only 5,10" so worry it could be too high for me when the head is fitted? Does anyone have this pod? Its 146cm and with 10cm for the head, i fear I would be on my tiptoes to see!

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Ali

[Wilt]

Finally, I've seen several posts on column vs no column tripods, and I see attraction to the GT3541LS. I'm only 5,10" so worry it could be too high for me when the head is fitted?... Its 146cm and with 10cm for the head, i fear I would be on my tiptoes to see!

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Simply do not extend all the leg sections fully! Pull one leg out to the length you need to use, then lock it. Then stand the tripod on the extended leg and pull the other two legs down to the same length (the ground) and lock them. Then spread the legs and you are ready to shoot!

[ChrisMc73]

I love the "systematic" part of the 3541LS (http://tealic.la.coocan.jp/gallary/Tripod/GT3541LS_index.html) and thats what has me largely committed to buying this tripod.

[BigDaveE]

I posted a pic in another thread of my Z1 + GT2531, which shows the little bit of "overhang"...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6699532#post6699532

I've never seen it as a problem and the connection is rock-solid...

My $0.02...

[jhom]

The slight over hang of a ballhead on the Power Disk of the Mountaineer series is not a problem. Given your hiking needs, I think the 2 series would be preferable because of the stability/weight ratio especially when coupled with a ballhead designed for that size. A Markins M10 is a good match for the 2 series. If additional weight reduction is needed, then the Markins Q3 would be great. With your current gear, either ballhead would serve you well. Once you go to a Markins M20, a 3 series would be better. But you will be adding weight from both the larger ballhead and larger tripod.

Obviously, if you get a Systematic series, your overhang problem is non-existant.

[yabbie]

Have a look here:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=714643
for how the smallest Markins ballheads fit on top of 1 and 2 series Gitzo tripods. the Markins M10, RRS BH-40 or other company equivalent size would also be a great fit for a 2 series Gitzo.

I bought what I thought was the lightest/strongest tripod combo for outdoors, all weather for my 5D and 24-70 f/2.8 and 300 f/4 (GT2531, Markins Q3T). The Gitzo 2 series tripod is nice and sturdy - a 3 series would be overkill. The Markins Q3 also holds my kit comfortably, I've no reason to lug the heavier M10 on backpacking trips.

I often have the center column of my tripod out because I use it often for macro, really low to the ground - not possible with the column in. However, it is really useful for quick vertical adjustments for any other purpose - instead of having to adjust all 3 legs a bit more up or down a few times to get it right, using the center column is way faster and easier. I'm definately a big fan.

I wouldn't worry if the tipod and ballhead base plates aren't exactly the same diameter, that's more of an aesthetic thing than a functionality issue.

[jhom]

As an alternative you can make the 2 series into a systematic by removing the center column and adding a Markins tripod base.

[alishakarchi]

Thanks for all the replies and images, it is very helpful.

On paper the GT2541 seems ideal for what I need and my current 5D, 24-70 / 70-20IS kit. My only hesitation is if it will be stable enough in windy conditions, that I sometimes find my self working in (think Scotland highlands and Alps!), which is the only reason I would consider the GT3541 - it's considerably heavier, and perhaps like Alice says Overkill. Has anyone used theirs in such conditions without problems?

With the GT3541LS, I think adjusting the legs individually to get it to my eye level, will slow me down and frustrate, although I'm sure I could get use to it and if it offers noticeable stability it could be worth it!

Jim, could you explain the advantage of the Markins base, as I thought on the new Series 2 the column could be removed and head connected directly?

On that note, in the UK the Arca-Swiss Z1 will cost almost the same as the Markins M10 or M20, wouldn't that make it a 'better buy'? However, I have seen several warnings online that there have been problems with the ball stem design, where being 2-piece, it could split. Does anyone know if this has been resolved? Having said all this, the RSS heads look beautiful.

Mmm... why can't things be simple. Thanks again

Ali

[Wilt]

With the GT3541LS, I think adjusting the legs individually to get it to my eye level, will slow me down and frustrate, although I'm sure I could get use to it and if it offers noticeable stability it could be worth it!

How much difference in speed is there, in pulling the smallest diameter leg section out close to a black mark drawn on the leg, vs pulling it out all the way...then, while the tripod is resting on that leg, pulling the other two legs down to the ground?! I have been doing that for decades, and I am the picture of Impatience, in setting up a tripod and then taking it to somewhere else without wasted effort and time! If fact, I would not even buy a Gitzo until I proved it would not slow me down from my Bogen/Manfrotto usage.

[BigDaveE]

However, I have seen several warnings online that there have been problems with the ball stem design, where being 2-piece, it could split. Does anyone know if this has been resolved?

This was an issue on a small number of ballheads (overblown, imho) and was changed/resolved on any ballheads dated after June 2008...

[jhom]

Thanks for all the replies and images, it is very helpful.

On paper the GT2541 seems ideal for what I need and my current 5D, 24-70 / 70-20IS kit. My only hesitation is if it will be stable enough in windy conditions, that I sometimes find my self working in (think Scotland highlands and Alps!), which is the only reason I would consider the GT3541 - it's considerably heavier, and perhaps like Alice says Overkill. Has anyone used theirs in such conditions without problems?

With the GT3541LS, I think adjusting the legs individually to get it to my eye level, will slow me down and frustrate, although I'm sure I could get use to it and if it offers noticeable stability it could be worth it!

Jim, could you explain the advantage of the Markins base, as I thought on the new Series 2 the column could be removed and head connected directly?

On that note, in the UK the Arca-Swiss Z1 will cost almost the same as the Markins M10 or M20, wouldn't that make it a 'better buy'? However, I have seen several warnings online that there have been problems with the ball stem design, where being 2-piece, it could split. Does anyone know if this has been resolved? Having said all this, the RSS heads look beautiful.

Mmm... why can't things be simple. Thanks again

Ali

The TB provides more direct coupling of the ballhead to the Gitzo center casting because it is screwed onto the center columm casting threads. It has a larger surface area to contac the center casting. I have found that it reduces some vibration. Since I don't use the center column, it is a good alternative to Gitzo design of having the power disk perched on top of the center column wingnut.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5864/m10rh3.jpg

[alishakarchi]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I was lucky enough to find a store that had a GT2541 and GT3541LS side by side! I was hoping I'd like the GT2541 more, and was impressed by how light and compact it was, amazing! I've had a series 2 Basalt before ( G1298 ), but never really found it that stable, particularly in less than ideal conditions - sounds silly but i never 'trusted' it.

As amazing as the GT2541 was, the GT3541LS is outstanding and the stability difference is more than noticeable. I think the extra bulk is something i just have to accept. I think for landscape photography it will simply be a safer bet, as IQ is everything. One annoying thing is that I have to fit a more heaver head to it (would have picked a BH-40 for the series 2).

It's been interesting to hear your views on the various heads out there, the BH-55 is beautify, but it is bit of a beast.... I do plan to get RRS plates and pano kit for sure.

The Arca-Swiss Z1 is interesting and I'd love to hear from anyone with the DP version. I wonder how that would compare with the RSS pano kit, and it it would be as stable as the non DP (SP) one.

[jhom]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I was lucky enough to find a store that had a GT2541 and GT3541LS side by side! I was hoping I'd like the GT2541 more, and was impressed by how light and compact it was, amazing! I've had a series 2 Basalt before ( G1298 ), but never really found it that stable, particularly in less than ideal conditions - sounds silly but i never 'trusted' it.

As amazing as the GT2541 was, the GT3541LS is outstanding and the stability difference is more than noticeable. I think the extra bulk is something i just have to accept. I think for landscape photography it will simply be a safer bet, as IQ is everything. One annoying thing is that I have to fit a more heaver head to it (would have picked a BH-40 for the series 2).

It's been interesting to hear your views on the various heads out there, the BH-55 is beautify, but it is bit of a beast.... I do plan to get RRS plates and pano kit for sure.

The Arca-Swiss Z1 is interesting and I'd love to hear from anyone with the DP version. I wonder how that would compare with the RSS pano kit, and it it would be as stable as the non DP (SP) one.

Yes, the 3541 is a great choice. You will need to compromise some additional weight for increased stability. It will come out to about 1 -1.5lbs heavier depending on which ballhead and accessories you use.

[20DNewbie]

I use the 3541LS with the M20 and love it.

I thought about the BH-55, but for the price difference(was more than it is currently)/weight difference I opted for the M20. Sure the RRS is looks great in comparison, but as far as I'm concerned given the differences I'll take home the ugly duckling any day of the week.

[jhom]

I use the 3541LS with the M20 and love it.

I thought about the BH-55, but for the price difference(was more than it is currently)/weight difference I opted for the M20. Sure the RRS is looks great in comparison, but as far as I'm concerned given the differences I'll take home the ugly duckling any day of the week.

Personally, I don't find the Markins ballheads to be ugly ducklings. :D