Formal group shots - Please offer your advice

[snyper77]

When it comes to shooting formals (wedding party with family, on stage, in the church), how do you properly expose for this type of picture? I'm shooting a 5D+24-70L+580EXII with stroboframe (if needed) on a tripod. I'm guessing that I'll be about 30' or so away from the group (unless I shoot at 24mm which may distort the shot).

So, my question is....how do I properly 'light' the shot? If I aim "straight on" with my flash, you all know how harsh that will be. I do have a LightSphere and a StoFen OmniBounce, if you'd like to incorportate that into your reply to me.

Should I just use a slow shutter speed (about 1/30) and let the ambient light expose the photo, and 'pop' a fill flash? The lighting in the church isn't great, just a bunch of florescent tubes. Also, what do you advise to get proper white balancing in this 'mixed light' (florescent + flash)? I have a WhiBal, by the way.

Ceilings are pretty high, so not much "bounce" possibilities. This isn't my first time to encounter this problem, (shot several weddings), but it's a problem that I struggle with at each event.
I do have an 2nd flash (580ex), and I have a wife that could hold it for me, if needed.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

[bric-a-brac]

the easiest answer for getting wide, evenly lit indoor coverage would probably be to buy another flash and get them both off camera with lightstands/umbrellas and a radio trigger.

I white balance mixed lighting by first determining the exposure I want and then shooting a grey card where my subjects are standing. I set my custom white balance to the image of the grey card.

that's how I'd handle your situation, just me though. with what you have, I'd use the lightsphere, a high ISO, and drag the shutter. I'd bank on fixing exposure inconsistencies across the image in post production later on, but I've been pleasantly surprised before.

[Big Mike]

Unless you have good surfaces (walls & ceiling) to bounce off of...keep the Lightsphere and Omnibounce in the bag (or better yet, don't bring them at all).

If you can bounce, I'd suggest that. It should give you soft light that covers the group relatively evenly. Sometimes, shooting the flash straight on is the best option when you have limited time and equipment. The flat lighting sucks, but a large group/family shot isn't necessarily a time when you need to get overly creative...just make sure that everyone's face is lit and in focus, that's what will be most important to the clients.

If you are going to shoot the flash directly, being too far away might cause red-eye, but the bracket can help with that...since you are using a tripod, maybe take the flash in your hand and hold it as far away as the cord will allow. Of course, OCF (off camera flash) is almost always the preferable option so if you can do that, go for it.

If you move closer to the group there is less chance of red-eye, but also the lighting on the group (front to back) will be less even than if you are shooting from farther back. And as you mentioned, you get more distortion as your focal length gets wider.

As for the exposure and the mixed lighting...it totally depends on the level of the ambient light and the surroundings etc. If the scene looks nice and you want it to be part of the image, then drag the shutter and/or raise the ISO to get more ambient exposure...just beware that too long of a shutter speed combined with enough ambient light can result in blur from people moving...so keep the shutter speed high enough, especially with a larger group where there is a greater chance that someone will move.

If the ambient light is really bad, you can knock it down or eliminate it with a faster shutter speed, but then you loose the ambient exposure for the background. The other alternative is to gel your flash to match the ambient.

[elisesanchez]

If this is something you have not done in a wedding situation, practice before hand. Even lighting is very important. Do not let your first time be in action at a wedding.

[tim]

Remember that if your lights are close to the group the people in the front will be well lit and the people in the rear dark. The workarounds are to have the rows as close together as possible, not to have the lights too close to the group, and put them up high. Also note that if your lights are to the left and the right and the group has rows the people in the rear may have shadows on them from the people in the front row. The solution to this is to have the main light near the camera.

Now for mixed light. Avoid it. Because of the relative amounts of light on the front and rear rows the light mix will be different.

If I had to do this i'd use two studio strobes mounted on 14 foot tall light stands, both close to the camera but slightly left and right so they're not in the shot. If I had space i'd be at 30-50mm on a crop sensor, which gives enough DOF at F8. In practice I just take people outside and use ambient light.

To avoid the issues shoot ISO400 F8 with direct flash from a reasonable distance from the group, flash on the camera. No shadows, no mixed light, no problems - except boring light. Diffusers will make no difference to the quality of the light when used with direct on camera flash in this situation.

This is one of the technically more difficult things to do as a wedding photographer. Fortunately I don't have to do it often, but I have done it and the way I said i'd do it above works fine. It took a bit of thought and a couple of "oops" moments to get it right though.

[bnlearle]

I think lighting formals is such an unnecessary amount of work for something that has a TON of historical value - but little artistic value. I've never used light once on them...

My suggestion - treat them like any other photo (unless, of course, you flash ALL your photos). Get a decent exposure and you'll be fine. If it's too dark inside, go outside.

As always, sharing your POV on group shots BEFORE you book the couple is key. I do, they learn my way, and always love that we start and finish the family/bridal party portraits in ten minutes tops ;)

[tim]

Bobby, how would you shoot a group of 200 people in a dark church, taking into account DOF and assuming you can't go outside? How about a group of 15 people, which might be three rows of people.

[snyper77]

"Outside" is not an option. It'll be 102 degrees (no kidding). Also, I can't "raise my lights up high into the air" as I have no stands and no triggering devices. :(

[bnlearle]

Bobby, how would you shoot a group of 200 people in a dark church, taking into account DOF and assuming you can't go outside? How about a group of 15 people, which might be three rows of people.
200 people in a dark church? It's pretty clear to my clients that I'm not big on these things. I'll do 'em - but it's not WHY they're hiring me. I'd assume I'd be far enough away to where most would be in focus - even at f/1.4. So I'd shoot it at f/1.4 on my 24L. It'd take a minute (tops) and I'd be done :)

Three rows of 15 people? 15 people would NEVER be more than two rows for me. And I'd most likely still do one row if I couldn't go outside.

All in all, I just wouldn't personally spend a lot of time and effort on group shots. Not at all because I don't like doing them, either - but because they are paying good money and that time should be spent wisely. And anything more than 15 minutes on family/bridal party photos isn't time/money spent wisely for me.

"Outside" is not an option. It'll be 102 degrees (no kidding). Also, I can't "raise my lights up high into the air" as I have no stands and no triggering devices. :(
102 degrees is fine for ten minutes, imo. Make it clear that you need family lists before the fact, line em up, and rifle away. Don't spend more than a minute on each photo (I spend no more than 30 seconds). The heat will make everyone more attentive and want to get it over with. Explain to everyone that you want to get this done for them as fast as possible - so you need them to listen up and move in and out of each photo quickly.

102 degrees is hardly enough reason to stay inside for me :)

[tim]

Good call on outside for ten mins. A quick check says 24mm @ F1.4 at 3 meters away gives a DOF of 2.5 meters, so even if you need to stop down a little you'd be ok! However I find even outside in good light at 30mm or so I need F5.6 for the DOF I want.

[clint0914]

the easiest answer for getting wide, evenly lit indoor coverage would probably be to buy another flash and get them both off camera with lightstands/umbrellas and a radio trigger.

I white balance mixed lighting by first determining the exposure I want and then shooting a grey card where my subjects are standing. I set my custom white balance to the image of the grey card.

that's how I'd handle your situation, just me though. with what you have, I'd use the lightsphere, a high ISO, and drag the shutter. I'd bank on fixing exposure inconsistencies across the image in post production later on, but I've been pleasantly surprised before.

That's how I do it as well. It works great