I wanna shoot some film...

[KevC]

Hey,

Digital's fun. Really fun. But I wanna get more hands on. I want the feeling of anxiety and excitement of waiting to finish a roll of film... then after developing to see my shots.

I wanna shoot some film.

However, I don't know where to start. I keep hearing "slide film". I guess the stuff you buy at the local drugstore isn't what I need?

I already have my father's old EOS650, but I'm not sure if there even is a light meter in it. *shrug* It has the same Av, Tv, and P modes, but I wouldn't know how to use the M unless I guessed exposure. And I don't wanna do that.

Should I buy a lightmeter? I'm thinking of those cheap Soviet ones.

I was considering going even further back. Stick with the whole Soviet theme. Pick myself up a Zenit. Or Kiev? Maybe a Contax copy... I'm more interested in the M42 mount because I'm thinking of getting a bunch of CJZ glass in that particular mount. Good idea? Or bad...

How about rangefinders?

I'm a kid that grew up with digital... somebody teach me about film :) (let's leave Medium Format out of this.... for now :))

//edit: I forgot to add...

-is it safe to buy "out of date" film? what are cheap places to buy this?
-i don't know how to develop. However, my school offers courses. B/W first, then Colour. (B/W is a prereq). Can I just take slide film to the drugstore for them to develop?
-which completely manual m42 camera do you recommend? i was looking at the Zenit 122....

[Loki1117]

Any EOS camera should have a light meter in it. I am not exactly sure what U.S. EOS model equivalent you have, but it will generally work the same as your Dig Rebel. Not only that, but other than your ef-S lens all of your other equipment should work on it the same.

As for anxiety...to really get that feeling find a place that will teach you how to use a dark room, shoot some black and white film and then develop your own prints that way.

One of the things I enjoy about digital photography is being back in control of the final print rather than telling someone behind a counter what I want them to do to my print.

edit--
As for teaching about film...That is not something you'll learn in a chat room or message board. Not that it is all that difficult to load film shoot and get prints back, but there are so many possible ways to approach what film you use and how it can be manipulated. If you really are interested in spending the time to learn about taking film pictures, I would highly suggest taking the B&W class. If nothing else it will help you learn about composition and seeing light v. colors if you get my meaning.

[soupdragon]

Slide film is really good but you will need to borrow your dad's projector.

If you want to process your own you are going to need a fair few extra items. Mainly a daylight processing tank, a thermometer, some E6 chemistry, slide mounts and a really good thing is a changing bag.

If you really have not shot slide film before brace yourself for a breathtaking experience when you project your first trannies.
Just do it.

By the way, Fuji Velvia & Kodak E100 G series films are awsome.

[J Rabin]

There are a gazillion good recommendation sites on www, differing for portraits, wildlife, etc. Just Google or Dogpile film recommendations. Here's one:
http://www.photo.net/equipment/film#Slide

J

[PhotosGuy]

I wanna shoot some film. I'm sorry to hear that, Kev! I hope you get well soon! ;-)
-is it safe to buy "out of date" film? what are cheap places to buy this? It may/will have a color cast, more grain, & faster ISO film might have speckles scattered through it from cosmic radiation. (No joke!) Some cheap films are actually roll ends from cine film.
-i don't know how to develop. However, my school offers courses. B/W first, then Colour. (B/W is a prereq). Can I just take slide film to the drugstore for them to develop? Yes. But depending on who does the processing, it may come back green. Or pink. DON'T do it yourself unless you can keep a constant temperature within .1 degree.
Take 2 aspirin, go to bed, & I hope you feel better in the morning.

[cyclone]

KevC

I think Bloo Dog and others covered most of your questions. I have just a few things to add. For outdated film, the emulsion requires a little more exposure than normal. During one photography class I took, we used outdated slide film, and the instructor had us set the ISO down a bit (maybe 1/3 stop?). Let me back up, modern film cameras can automaticaly detect the film ISO. But on most you can also override this setting. This really has the effect of an exposure control dial, but now you don't have to think about it.

If you are just starting on film, I would use color negative rather than slide film to start off. For consumer grades, it is less expensive and can be developed cheaper. It is only when you go to a pro lab that slide film is cheaper to develop. Also, color negative film has a wider exposure latitude than slide film does, so if you try to go the whole completely manual route, it will be more forgiving. If you find you like film, you can always step up to pro slide or color negative film. And as Bloo Dog suggests, don't buy a bunch of film developing equipment until your sure this is something you really want to do long term.

As many have said, films vary. For slide film Fuji Velvia is a staple for landscape but can give strange skin tones. Fuji Reala is supposed to be a good general purpose film. Kodak has a B/W film that can be developed with the color C41 process. Try different things. Have fun.

Cyclone

[mbze430]

Since I am a big film supporter, I guess I should say, "DO IT!".

Everyone that is supporting Digital that posted is giving good points.

To me the major benefit of shooting film is that it makes you think twice or three times. Digital is the "easy way out". You keep shooting till you get it right. Film, you start to think about the cost and the possibility of not capturing "correctly". This effects how you start to compose your shots, the way you meter, and just about everything that goes in to a photograph. In another word, it makes you fine tune your skill to capture that moment.

When you start to think about your photograph before even snapping it, your end results will be much more satisfying than having a bunch of mediocre shots and trying to save those.


Digital is lazy. You keep shooting, checking, erasing. In terms, this is also a good thing, because now you have much better results from any joe shmoe.

As for outdated film, if you know exactly how long its been expired, and how it have been treated, you can compensate for it during processing or pulling on the film.

[napolar]

...
The EOS 650 is a very capable camera. The focus is slow by today's standards, and the EF-S lens slows the whole process down even more.
...
Good Luck!

Please remember that your EF-S lens(es) will not work on any of the EOS film bodies.

[KevC]

Hey, thanks for all the posts.

I snapped back into reality and decided there's no point spending more money considering I don't have an income :S

School's out... and I'm still jobless.

Anyway, I'll just buy enough EOS->M42 adapters for my 650.

Bloo Dog: I can't seem to find the manual for the 650, but I can't find the light meter. Do you recall? It's not like the meter that's in the drebel (in the viewfinder and on the back)... I'm not sure how it measures light.

I'll start with normal negatives for now. And I'll sign up for darkroom courses come september. Yes, at my school there's a full darkroom for me to use, I'm not building one in my basement :)

[KevC]

Hey Bloo Dog,

Thanks a lot :) I was trying to find the reading in M, and it didn't cross my mind that I needed to go into Tv or Av to get the reading. Lol. I'm too used to my drebel, meguess.

Mine does not have the port for a remote switch :(

Don't worry about the manual, I think you just covered everything.

[kellmeister]

When people talk about using film they mention how it makes you slow down vs. digital where you "shoot till you get it." But in the end does it really matter, if you get the shot? I guess what I'm saying is that since some of you shoot digital AND film do you prefer film because it's more challenging to use?

[KevC]

Film forces you to think twice. Every time you squeeze the shutter button, you are costing yourself not only time but money aswell. It forces you to slow down, make sure everything is good, then shoot.

With digital, you can get lazy. You can snap snap snap till you get it right.

You're right, in the end, you still get a nice picture. But I believe film is a stricter teacher...

[soupdragon]

Sorry to interrupt but, when did film go obsolete again? i must have missed that.

I have a digital and a film camera, and use both. Processing slides is a doddle and does not require the use of a darkroom.

I more often get the shot I want using digital but, when it come to presenting that jaw dropping contest winning never been done before photo, digital can't hold a candle to projected slide film. And please don't anyone try and tell me that looking at a 22" super dooper high res monitor image is as good.

[rdenney]

The EOS 650's exposure modes are the same as on your digital camera: M is manual, Av lets you set the aperture and it will set the shutter speeds, Tv lets you set the shutter speed and it will set the aperture, and P is program mode. Canon has had program mode going back to the AE-1 Program, which, by the sound of things, was made before you were born.

These modes have been the same in Canon's line since the better T-series manual-focus cameras. My T-90's controls are quite similar to my 10D's controls, and the Elan II fits in between. The 650 fits between the T-90 and the Elan II in chronology.

The autofocus won't be as slick, but it will work with your current EF (not EF-S, of course) lenses. And it will work fine with the M42 adaptors you are having fun with.

What the 650 does not have is partial-zone metering, multiple focus points, and stuff like that. Just use what it has.

If you really want to get back to basics, find a used Pentax K1000, and learn how to meter.

You do not need a hand-held meter to use any Canon SLR going back to the Canonflex and the Pellix. When I bought my F-1 in 1972, the meter was one of the most highly regarded features of that camera, especially that the meter was in the body rather than the (interchangeable) prism as with Nikon. The meters in these cameras will be better in nearly every case than a cheapie hand-held meter. I'm proficient in the Zone System and think in zones even when using a digital camera, but the only time I use a separate meter is when I want to measure flash or incident light, when I need a very fine spot meter, or when I'm using a camera that doesn't have a meter built into it. Save that for a later stage in your development. (I'm no fan of the Russian meters, by the way. They are often calibrated in GOST rather than ISO, and that makes them a pain to use. An old Vivitar 43 or Gossen Scout will do much better on the cheap end of the market.)

Shooting film requires more accurate previsualization than with digital, and better craft to achieve that previsualization.

Stick with color print film at first. Slide film is more demanding. When your negative exposures are always good, then get a roll of Velvia. But negative film is easier to scan because it fits within the narrow range of affordable scanners better.

Rick "finding it odd to explain to one who grew up in the digital world what film is like" Denney

[rdenney]

I more often get the shot I want using digital but, when it come to presenting that jaw dropping contest winning never been done before photo, digital can't hold a candle to projected slide film. And please don't anyone try and tell me that looking at a 22" super dooper high res monitor image is as good.

True, if you want to project your images. I think I might be able to find my slide projector if I dig deeply enough, but I rather doubt anyone will still be in the house by the time I do if they know that's where I'm going. Slide shows usually force people to run away.

Thus, I show prints. And making good prints from slides is no picnic.

Rick "who has made his fair share of Cibachrome contrast masks" Denney

[rdenney]

When people talk about using film they mention how it makes you slow down vs. digital where you "shoot till you get it." But in the end does it really matter, if you get the shot? I guess what I'm saying is that since some of you shoot digital AND film do you prefer film because it's more challenging to use?

I use film when I want image quality not supported by my digital camera. (Okay, I keep a roll of film in my Elan II for those times when I really do want a 12mm lens on the full frame, but that's not often and that will gone when used 1Ds's become cheap enough to afford.)

I can routinely make 20x30" prints from medium format film that would be impossible from the 10D (or even 1Ds). A rarely make prints that size, but I frequently encounter subjects that I might someday want to print that size and don't want to preclude it by using digital. But I feel the same way about 35mm as well.

Thus, I don't shoot much 35mm any more, but I still shoot lots of film.

I may go all-digital when sensors cover the medium format (and when I can afford them), but not until then.

Rick "for whom image quality is the deciding factor" Denney

[cyclone]

As far as advantages of film, let's not forget the 1.6X crop factor. You can actually use a 24mm lens on a film camera and get a wide angle shot;)

[KevC]

Yeah, that has me a little disappointed. My 10D can't take the kit lens for the Rebel, so I will have to buy wide angle lens which I really don't want to buy.

I think you can hack the 18-55 for it to fit. Or you can just get the Russian Fishy... (MC Zenitar 16mm f/2.8)

[KevC]

Hack it? as in computer hacking or hacking as in using a hacksaw to make it fit?

See, this is really new to me. I see references to a "Hacked DRebel." What does that mean? Has it been reprogrammed?

Well, I meant "hacking" as to "modify to do something it's not meant to". But no, you wouldn't reprogram the EF-S lenses, you'd hafta use a hacksaw :p

Actually you're completely right. It's kinda scary, but hey... if you really want to try it... you're only down ~$100 right?

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/efs-10d.html

As for the "hacked DRebel", that means the firmware has been "hacked". "modified to do something it's not meant to". Some crazy Russian just found out that it's very similar to the 10D, and unlocked it's features. More info here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34000&highlight=hacked+firmware