How much CF do you take?

[benesotor]

Hi, I'm shooting a small/medium sized wedding next month and i'm just getting some final bits of gear ready as it's my first.
Yes, i know i only have a 400D, (don't yell :p), but i showed some samples to the clients and they are perfectly happy.
As well as a 580EX II and a faster lens, i've been getting the little things this week (i say little but the cost is mounting).

I now have 19GB of compact flash cards.
2x Sandisk Extreme III @ 4GB
2x Kingston Elite Pro @ 4GB
2x Sandisk standard @ 1GB
1x Viking Int. @ 1GB

I'll get roughly 3800 JPG's, or 1900 RAW shots from using all cards.

Does 1900 RAW's sound enough? I'm not sure...

[dmbpettit]

I did my first wedding earlier this month and I shot 50gb worth (4200 RAW pictures). Yes, one might say I went a little overboard but it is entirely possible that you could run out of memory.

[R_Metzel]

While it is extremely easy to go overboard and shoot almost 5k raws ( we did at our last wedding...2 day event though) I think we all need to start being more selective about what we shoot. Switching from film to digital I have noticed I went from making sure every shot counted to the spray and pray method, which has really taken a chunk out of my creativity it seems.

1900 should be more then enough.....it never hurts to have extra, but if you shoot the wedding, and not S&P it, you will be fine.

[tdodd]

I've shot six weddings to date, two as prime, four as a second shooter. So far I have shot between 630-930 images per wedding. While memory is cheap enough, I find it pretty arduous to have to plough through 900 images, never mind 1900 or 4200. Assuming the final product is likely to end up at between 50-300 images I struggle to see the benefit to the photographer in shooting more than 1,000. Try thinking of it in terms of images per hour. 1000 images over 6-8 hours of cover is around 140 images per hour, or one every 25 seconds, non stop. I know you may have to fire off a few safety shots to guard against blinkers and so on but even so.........

By all means take enough memory, and some to spare, but personally I would not plan to take over 1,000 shots. In fact, it is my goal to shoot fewer images but make the ones I do shoot count more. That said, I do have over 80GB of CF storage (2x 32GB, 2x8GB, 2x2GB, 1x1GB, 1x512MB) so I can basically shoot whatever the hell I please :) Ooh, almost forgot, I also have a 16GB SDHC card in the 1D3 so call it 100GB in round figures. Of course, that card is used to provide redundancy in the event of CF card failure.

[JackLiu]

You need to make an overall estimate of the number of images that will be taken. Then convert that to the number of memory cards required and add 50% for added measure. Memory cards are relatively inexpensive. You won't have a second chance to take those missed moments.

[benesotor]

The reason why im so unsure about how many i'll take is because i've been instructed for pretty much the whole day to shoot naturally and un-posed shots (except a few formal ones of course) therefore i can shoot quite a bit... maybe it wouldn't hurt to order another 4GB when i get my new lens.

[jonwhite]

160gb between two of us, lots more than we will use even with 5D MKII's but having plenty of memory allows us to change cards when we want rather than when we have filled a card up which may not be a good time to change cards.

[benesotor]

160gb between two of us, lots more than we will use even with 5D MKII's but having plenty of memory allows us to change cards when we want rather than when we have filled a card up which may not be a good time to change cards.

Wow that's a lot, but i spose 5D II's gobble bytes much quicker than my teeny 400D. :p

[jonwhite]

Its probably about 3 times more than we shoot at a wedding even with 5D MKII's .... but its a safety net that means we can change cards when we want, have cards spread across a few bodies and if we have an issue with a card we just put it to one side and replace it with another... memory is cheap these days so no point in making life hard.

[bnlearle]

Do you have a laptop? If so, bring that, a CF card reader, and a mini-hard drive. Upload to your computer, then drag to your external hard drive, and since you're double backed up, you can clear those cards. That's what I do (I don't clear the cards - but I do the backup on the laptop and the external drive).

[benesotor]

Do you have a laptop? If so, bring that, a CF card reader, and a mini-hard drive. Upload to your computer, then drag to your external hard drive, and since you're double backed up, you can clear those cards. That's what I do.

I might be able to, i've got a external hardrive and card-reader, just thinking when i'll have time to do it. But i might want to transfer the photo's in the evening anyway just for peace of mind.

[tim]

I have about 34GB of CF, I use maybe 20GB. Some people here have insane amount of memory, but some take insane amounts of photos.

Do you have a laptop? If so, bring that, a CF card reader, and a mini-hard drive. Upload to your computer, then drag to your external hard drive, and since you're double backed up, you can clear those cards. That's what I do.

Both are easy to steal. I never clear cards until they're on my PC and in my offsite backup.

[bnlearle]

Both are easy to steal. I never clear cards until they're on my PC and in my offsite backup.

I get your greater point (that it's best to have enough cards to where you never erase them). However, everything we have is easy to steal. In fact, unless you have EVERYTHING you bring to a shoot physically on you, a camera/lens/flash is much easier to grab than a computer and hard drive. Especially when the computer is up on a table for all to see where I'll post the slideshow later. Heck, you could just as easily slip a mini-hard drive into your shootsac (http://www.shootsac.com/) (I do it all the time) ;)

Could it be stolen? I'm sure it could be. But camera gear rarely gets stolen - I'm sure computers are even less likely. I know a ton of wedding photographers. Don't know a single one who's had their computer and mini-drive stolen.

Bobby

Sidenote - I don't erase cards 'till I get home, either. I like the triple back up system. Cards, laptop, mini-drive makes me sleep easy :D

[turbo212003]

Hi, I'm shooting a small/medium sized wedding next month and i'm just getting some final bits of gear ready as it's my first.
Yes, i know i only have a 400D, (don't yell :p), but i showed some samples to the clients and they are perfectly happy.
As well as a 580EX II and a faster lens, i've been getting the little things this week (i say little but the cost is mounting).

I now have 19GB of compact flash cards.
2x Sandisk Extreme III @ 4GB
2x Kingston Elite Pro @ 4GB
2x Sandisk standard @ 1GB
1x Viking Int. @ 1GB

I'll get roughly 3800 JPG's, or 1900 RAW shots from using all cards.

Does 1900 RAW's sound enough? I'm not sure...


Please tell me you aren't going with just one camera.................

[hofajoab]

It's always good to have backup cards, i.e. atleast 1.5 times the memory you think you'll need (or even twice as much).. you never know what could happen to them. It's not expensive for memory these days so it's not that big of a deal, even after backing up to an external harddrive as mentioned I'd still feel happier knowing that the photos are theoretically backed up on the cards as well. I would however rent/buy another body though, 2 is a minimum for weddings, no matter how small.. it's still someone's big day!

[shannyD]

i take all of mine... just in case. and only because i shoot RAW the whole time.

the other photog i work with shoots JPG. so i bring 50GB with me. and maybe use half of that depending on the wedding.

shannon

[clint0914]

Do you have a laptop? If so, bring that, a CF card reader, and a mini-hard drive. Upload to your computer, then drag to your external hard drive, and since you're double backed up, you can clear those cards. That's what I do.


Bringing in another gear is actually very cumbersome. I suggest just buy CFs.

The person who said 1k RAW Files or there abouts per wedding is enough sounds about right. If you know what you are shooting and the amount of good shots taken are going to make your keeper rate a lot higher. You need to anticipate shots before they even happen or make them happen by asking people to do this and that. As for the rest of a wedding set that is mostly photojournalism so, take your time and make your angles count. It is all about the angles when you are in scene. You can't just take a shot and say amm maybe I can keep that LOL! in any given scene there's one shot that will make that scene great so train your eyes to see those type of scenes.

For group shots you should take take 2-3 shots/pose so that you have options later on.

If it were completely up to me 40-50Gigs is enough in any wedding. You will need a second body and that is for sure. One body with a regular walk-around the other with the tele will make your life so much easier instead of switching lenses because that will affect your keeper rate.

[bnlearle]

If you're not a pro, and the couple knows that, I think the whole two camera thing is TOTALLY unnecessary.

If you're a pro in ANY aspect, it's necessary, don't get me wrong. But it seems unnecessary for a starter guy/gal who is shooting a free or $200 wedding to have to have back up gear. You pay pros for that peace of mind, imo...

Bobby

[bnlearle]

Bringing in another gear is actually very cumbersome. I Suggest just buy CFs.

The person who said 1k RAW Files or there abouts per wedding is enough sounds about right. If you know what you are shooting and the amount of good shots taken are going to make your keeper rate a lot higher. You need to anticipate shots before they even happen or make them happen by asking people to do this and that. the rest of a wedding set is mostly photojournalism so take your time and make your angles count. It is all about the angles when you are in scene. You can't just tkae a shot and say amm maybe I can keep that LOL! in any given scene there's one shot that will make that scene great so train your eyes to see those type of scenes.

For group shots you know to take 2-3 shots/pose so that you have options later on.

If it were completely up to me 40-50Gigs is a lot in any wedding.. You will need a second body and that is for sure. If you can rent one go for it.. One body with a regular walk-around the other with the tele..

I have NO problem with what you're saying - so long as you're saying it works for you. I do have a problem when people start saying "this" is the way to do it. I'm a full-time, working pro and I do it COMPLETELY differently than you've described. I also know more wedding photographers than the average wedding photographer nowadays - so I know that a TON of respected photographers do it differently, as well.

For example, I literally don't know (in person) a single photographer who doesn't bring a laptop and a CF card reader to a wedding. Not saying one should bring one in order to be a pro, but literally every pro I know brings a laptop. Hardly a cumbersome matter. And, IMO, having only one set is NOT back up. If you slip and fall in a pool, for example, you're in trouble. If you misplace, you're in trouble. If someone pick pockets you, you're in trouble. If you reformat (most likely - this is the story I unfortunately hear most), you're in trouble. If you do the (near) immediate back up as the day goes along, AND keep the cards, you're much safer. There comes a time when you're making people pay X amount of dollars that you owe it to them to go through the trouble. That's my take on it ;)

[clint0914]

I have NO problem with what you're saying - so long as you're saying it works for you. I do have a problem when people start saying "this" is the way to do it. I'm a full-time, working pro and I do it COMPLETELY differently than you've described. I also know more wedding photographers than the average wedding photographer nowadays - so I know that a TON of respected photographers do it differently, as well.

For example, I literally don't know (in person) a single photographer who doesn't bring a laptop and a CF card reader to a wedding. Not saying one should bring one in order to be a pro, but literally every pro I know brings a laptop. Hardly a cumbersome matter. And, IMO, having only one set is NOT back up. If you slip and fall in a pool, for example, you're in trouble. If you misplace, you're in trouble. If someone pick pockets you, you're in trouble. If you reformat (most likely - this is the story I unfortunately hear most), you're in trouble. If you do the (near) immediate back up as the day goes along, AND keep the cards, you're much safer. There comes a time when you're making people pay X amount of dollars that you owe it to them to go through the trouble. That's my take on it ;)

I don't know man. I'd be stupid enough to slip off a pool that's certain LOL! Just yesterday I shot an Engagement Pool Party and guess what? I didn't fall. I was even shooting from the platform and upfront on those people jumping off doing backflips.

The person who is asking for advise is going to shoot a wedding not a National Geographic Assignment so no need to go to extremes. I just never had those issues you posted ever and yes I know a ton of people in Toronto as well, those who even shoot weddings in other countries, and even Outdoor Photographers don't do half the contingency plan that you do. It is good yes but photography is not Apocalyptic LOL!

Someone is most likely to steal my laptop than to pick my pocket for a CF card.

Simply enough just use your brains. I know a ton of people who pack unecessarily and laugh at them when they are panting and hurrying to do 1000 things at a time instead of concentrating on shooting. That's my take.

[clint0914]

If you're not a pro, and the couple knows that, I think the whole two camera thing is TOTALLY unnecessary.

If you're a pro in ANY aspect, it's necessary, don't get me wrong. But it seems unnecessary for a starter guy/gal who is shooting a free or $200 wedding to have to have back up gear. You pay pros for that peace of mind, imo...

Bobby


True to certain extent but once you are relegated the official photographer of a wedding you must have the gears pro or not.

It is highly unlikely that photojournalism will pause on a scence for you to change your lens and take that shot.

If you can ask a family/friend who has one just borrow it from him/her for a small rent fee and you will have a less stressful day. Also don't forget about lenses because whomever you are going to ask will have lenses and/or flash that you may want to borrow as well for the day. Just don't break them LOL!

[bnlearle]

It's funny how you picked out the two examples that are obviously less likely. Reformatting and misplacing cards is EXTREMELY common - more so than card failure, I'd say. And if my laptop gets stolen? That's what I have insurance for AND why I don't format my cards.

Odds are, NOTHING happens to us and our cards. But guess what? It DOES in fact happen sometimes. And you can be held liable by what is fair for the judge to assume that most in your field (and paygrade) do to have reasonable backup. I shoot in the high end for my area and back up is EXTREMELY normal. If I didn't backup and something went wrong (formatted a card, lost a card... hopefully those aren't apocalyptic reasons for you), I could potentially be required to pay what the judge deemed their priceless wedding photos were worth.

If you think not bringing a laptop or some sort of back up is using your brains I think you're showing your experience level...

[bnlearle]

True to certain extent but once you are relegated the official photographer of a wedding you must have the gears pro or not.
Someone who speaks with so much authority but doesn't have a link to a site or blog has always been hard for me to listen to. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is...

It's not true to a certain extent. It's just true. Fact is, if you aren't a pro, you aren't a pro. Period. Backup cameras are hardly essential at that point...

It is highly unlikely that photojournalism will pause on a scence for you to change your lens and take that shot.

This is where you're showing your experience. Tons of shooters are single camera shooters. I personally know so many (myself included this season - up until this season I shot with three - now mostly shoot with one and sometimes two). Mike Colon, Jessica Claire, Becker, Jasmine Star (I'm pretty sure?) Josh Newton... just to name a few that are highly respected photographers. Photojournalism is my strong point (I believe) and I change lenses CONSTANTLY.

Really not meaning to sound like a jerk, but I think you're speaking a bit too black and white. I have no problem with saying "this is how I do it and why I do it that way" but you're sounding like "this is the way TO do it" without giving any sort of evidence/reason (i.e. blog/site) why we should take you seriously. Especially when what you're saying completely counters the methods of far more respected and established pros...

Bobby

[clint0914]

Someone who speaks with so much authority but doesn't have a link to a site or blog has always been hard for me to listen to. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is...

It's not true to a certain extend. It's just true. Fact is, if you aren't a pro, you aren't a pro. Period. Backup cameras are hardly essential at that point...



This is where you're showing your experience. Tons of shooters are single camera shooters. I personally know so many (myself included this season - up until this season I shot with three - now mostly shoot with one and sometimes two). Mike Colon, Jessica Claire, Becker, Jasmine Star (I'm pretty sure?) Josh Newton... just to name a few that are highly respected photographers. Photojournalism is my strong point (I believe) and I change lenses CONSTANTLY.

Really not meaning to sound like a jerk, but I think you're speaking a bit too black and white. I have no problem with saying "this is how I do it and why I do it that way" but you're sounding like "this is the way TO do it" without giving any sort of evidence/reason (i.e. blog/site) why we should take you seriously. Especially when what you're saying completely counters the methods of far more respected and established pros...

Bobby


LOL! Blog site? Give me a break. Maybe I don't show off my balls all over the place. Maybe I am actually sane that I need not any of those posted here though I have my own site to convince you. This thread was for a CF card MR. PRO. GET A GRIP!

Should I post my business website here? AAmmm No! Will I ever get clientelle here? Who knows? Does that make me less of a photographer than you? I don't think so, Mr. Pro.

It's like saying that you need to see an apple to drop from a tower to believe that there's Gravity.. LMAO!

I have no need to go oh yeah this is what a judge will do or this is what I do or I need a blog site. Dude it is not forensic science it is a fact and the fact is everything is common sense noh?

Ok fine you the are the pro with blog site and insurance ETC. I bow down to you.

Dude just do what this guy says coz he is PRO and he's been around with so many PROs that he doesn't have his own outline just the status quo to follow. Bring a laptop wherever you shoot, get insurance and don't bring a spare body. PERIOD!.

And and yes, go get a blog or site up when you are done with your wedding or even now for that matter coz no one here will listen to you, apparently, and good luck.

Unbelievable! LMAO! Funny how you said photojournalism is your strenght and you are a pro yet you are not using a 1 Series body for that tsk! tsk! So pro.

AS FOR ME NO I AM NOT A PRO, FAR FROM IT REALLY, BUT PEOPLE PAY ME TO TAKE THEIR PICTURES AND THAT MAKES ME SMILE. Oh and does that qualify me for just 1 body? Maybe I should sell my backup since I am not a pro yeah? I believe I missed the note on non-pro = 1 body only. Amm can you resend it please? ROFL! What a clown.

[benesotor]

Please tell me you aren't going with just one camera.................

No i'm also taking an olympus E-520 with a couple lens's.

EDIT, this has been hijacked a bit, i'm just concerned about memory at the moment.

[bnlearle]

Clint, it was you who was talking as the authority. I just happen to feel comfortable challenging you and calling you out as my hunch is that you are inexperienced and don't know what you're talking about (in regard to what you've said here - I'm sure there are plenty of things you do in fact know what you're talking about) ;)

Not that it matters - as it's TOTALLY fine to be inexperienced and starting out - but here's your post one week ago about wedding photography...

"I don't have any experience yet..."
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=712301

... and then you post here a week later telling people what they should and should not do. This was my hunch, so like I said, I called you out on it. That's all.

I'm sure you're a rad dude with awesome photos (seriously). I'm not the end all on wedding photography, but I do know a thing or two about it. At first I didn't had a big problem with the methods you were describing - I had a problem with you implying that your methods were THEE methods - then I started having more problems with some of the things you described (belittling insurance, saying you laugh at people who lug around laptops) ;)

Again, no harm meant - just looking out for beginners and hoping they get the best info available :D

Bobby

[clint0914]

Clint, it was you who was talking as the authority. I just happen to feel comfortable challenging you and calling you out as my hunch is that you are inexperienced and don't know what you're talking about (in regard to what you've said here - I'm sure there are plenty of things you do in fact know what you're talking about) ;)

Not that it matters - as it's TOTALLY fine to be inexperienced and starting out - but here's your post one week ago about wedding photography...

"I don't have any experience yet..."
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=712301

... and then you post here a week later telling people what they should and should not do. This was my hunch, so like I said, I called you out on it. That's all.

I'm sure you're a rad dude with awesome photos (seriously). I'm not the end all on wedding photography, but I do know a thing or two about it. At first I didn't had a big problem with the methods you were describing - I had a problem with you implying that your methods were THEE methods - then I started having more problems with some of the things you described (belittling insurance, saying you laugh at people who lug around laptops) ;)

Again, no harm meant - just looking out for beginners and hoping they get the best info available :D

Bobby


Sure that's me! I am sure that whoever writes stuff here just us begginers asking questions. LOL!

Believe it! All of it! that's all me! yeah I am a beginner with so many lenses in hand and so many questions to ask. LMAO!

Or maybe I was just tripping and waiting for a valid answer from PROs?
Again no one told me that it is illegal to ask noob questions here when you want to ask noob questions?

Nice to know there are Angels out there looking out for beginners like me..

[clint0914]

No i'm also taking an olympus E-520 with a couple lens's.

EDIT, this has been hijacked a bit, i'm just concerned about memory at the moment.

I say like 40-50 gigs. That's before the entire thread got taken over by aliens. Sorry about that.

I won't post no more here. I already made a mess.

But whatever you do please feel like a pro and take charge of those moments that were handed to you to capture. If you mess up just ask them kindly to repose coz hey we are not pros.

As for the rest, Buddy, not only in photography,but in life in general, no one is pro, you should just live it and seize it.

I hope to see you in 10 years as one successful photographer.

Good luck!! All the best!!

[benesotor]

Since this thread has gone a bit off :P

Bobby can i ask do you achieve your vignetting effect in post-processing or use a certain filter or anything else for the original pic?
Cheers

EDIT: Dont worry Clint, i come from a ultimate-guitar forums, probably the meanest forum there is :P

[Roy Mathers]

As a wedding photographer of thirty years' experience, I can tell you that I would never dream of doing a wedding without two of everything. I had two cameras not to facilitate changing lenses (it was rarely necessary) but as a safety device in case one of them packed up. And I never took anywhere near 1000 shots at a single wedding. I think that number is vaguely ludicrous - get them right at the time.

And before bnlearle chips in, no I'm not posting my web site and I haven't got a blog.

[bnlearle]

Clint, it was you who was talking as the authority. I just happen to feel comfortable challenging you and calling you out as my hunch is that you are inexperienced and don't know what you're talking about (in regard to what you've said here - I'm sure there are plenty of things you do in fact know what you're talking about) ;)

Not that it matters - as it's TOTALLY fine to be inexperienced and starting out - but here's your post one week ago about wedding photography...

"I don't have any experience yet..."
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=712301

... and then you post here a week later telling people what they should and should not do. This was my hunch, so like I said, I called you out on it. That's all.

I'm sure you're a rad dude with awesome photos (seriously). I'm not the end all on wedding photography, but I do know a thing or two about it. At first I didn't had a big problem with the methods you were describing - I had a problem with you implying that your methods were THEE methods - then I started having more problems with some of the things you described (belittling insurance, saying you laugh at people who lug around laptops) ;)

Again, no harm meant - just looking out for beginners and hoping they get the best info available :D

BobbySure that's me! I am sure that whoever writes stuff here just us begginers asking questions. LOL!

Believe it! All of it! that's all me! yeah I am a beginner with so many lenses in hand and so many questions to ask. LMAO!

Or maybe I was just tripping and waiting for a valid answer from PROs?
Again no one told me that it is illegal to ask noob questions here when you want to ask noob questions?

Nice to know there are Angels out there looking out for beginners like me..

Not trying to stir things up, but are you suggesting that you didn't post that last week? Or are you suggesting you did and there's nothing wrong with it? I'm completely lost...

If you're saying you didn't post it, that sounds a bit crazy (as I guess you'd be implying someone hacked your account and made a very reasonable thread under your name?)...

If you're saying you did make the post - but there's nothing wrong with it - I totally agree! I'm pretty sure you can search my posts a way back and find TOTAL noob questions... and I'm glad I asked them!

My only point was that you are self-admittedly inexperienced (so I'm not being mean or calling you a name by stating that) and might not be qualified to speak so authoritatively on these matters.

Really, don't leave the forum... there's plenty of room to learn here!

Bobby

Since this thread has gone a bit off :P

Bobby can i ask do you achieve your vignetting effect in post-processing or use a certain filter or anything else for the original pic?
Cheers

All of my vignettes are typically from Lightroom :) You can read about my processing here...

http://bobbyearle.blogspot.com/search/label/Before%20and%20After%20Wednesdays

Hope it helps a little!

Bobby

[bnlearle]

And I never took anywhere near 1000 shots at a single wedding. I think that number is vaguely ludicrous - get them right at the time.
You realize you aren't the Yin to my Yang here, right? I'm not saying "take a million photos because taking under a thousand is crazy!" I'm saying do whatever works. You don't have to acknowledge it, but shooting a ton works for some and is HARDLY crazy. It's you who has said there is one non ludicrous way to shoot (which ironically happens to be your way) - not me ;) I'm okay with everything that works :)

Anyone who says one way is THEE way but the other ways have been proven to work just fine is either ignorant, arrogant, or naive (in that regard, at least). I mean, if another way works then it works, does it not?

And before bnlearle chips in, no I'm not posting my web site and I haven't got a blog.
You can feel free to paint me as some elitist, if you like. Anyone that knows me knows I'm hardly that ;)

But if you notice, I never stated that posting a blog or a site was a requirement ;) I had the hunch already that he wasn't a wedding photographer, asked for some proof that he was, didn't get it, and finally went and found the proof that he in fact has no experience in wedding photography (as he admits).

[benesotor]

All of my vignettes are typically from Lightroom :) You can read about my processing here...

http://bobbyearle.blogspot.com/search/label/Before%20and%20After%20Wednesdays

Hope it helps a little!

Bobby

Ah okay cool, i myself stick to lightroom too, just wondering how you got yours done, thanks for the reply ;)

[clint0914]

Since this thread has gone a bit off :P

Bobby can i ask do you achieve your vignetting effect in post-processing or use a certain filter or anything else for the original pic?
Cheers

EDIT: Dont worry Clint, i come from a ultimate-guitar forums, probably the meanest forum there is :P

Hey Man I have a garage band, a fulltime IT job with IBM Canada, working at the HQ as Network Operator Support for the Canadian operation of Bank of Nova Scotia and a business on the side (photography) to run. I don't need more stress LOL!

Anyhow dude, all I was saying is seize the moment. The more prepared you are the better but make sure you practice before it happens or all these stress for nothing. Say, go outside for a walk on a crazy day down town where you live and start shooting street scenes (i.e. photojournalism) with two camera set up then go for one camera set up and switch lenses. You will feel the difference and the pain hahaha.. But each to his own style so do what works for you.

I wanna see those pics up here soon bro.. Have fun!!

Don't worry too much about redudancy. What you really need like what my British friend there said , 30 yrs in the field and he uses 2 bodies, comes highly recommended and take his advise. For me at least 2x batteries for each body and spares for the flash/es. Remember that battery life runs on a per tick basis so you really want to make each tick count.

As for CF Memories like the same guy said 1k count is high and take it from him. I'd still stick to the 1k rule since we are just starting out. So multiply your RAW size x 1k then that's your ceiling but that really depends on how much quality pics you take not the size of your CF cards right?

If you think you will be required to produce 300 pics then at 1k you have less than 30% keeper rate. I think that's a good starting point for us beginners in the field. Notice I said beginners like us. >.<

As a wedding photographer of thirty years' experience, I can tell you that I would never dream of doing a wedding without two of everything. I had two cameras not to facilitate changing lenses (it was rarely necessary) but as a safety device in case one of them packed up. And I never took anywhere near 1000 shots at a single wedding. I think that number is vaguely ludicrous - get them right at the time.

And before bnlearle chips in, no I'm not posting my web site and I haven't got a blog.


Now here's a PRO. I like sensible people who have a ton of XP yet they don't flaunt their feathers. Take his advise and learn from him.

[tkbslc]

cards are cheap. Just buy a no-name 8 GB as a bail out backup or switch to JPEG if you start running tight.

[bnlearle]

Now here's a PRO. I like sensible people who have a ton of XP yet they don't flaunt their feathers. Take his advise and learn from him.
bw!

Dang man, you really can't let it go, can you? It's funny because you say it's good to take advise people with tons of experience. I agree! So I called you out since you were acting like you had a ton, it was quite apparent that you didn't, and now you hate me :lol:

Really, I mean you no ill will. I've said a hundred times, you're probably a great guy who got a little too involved in internet debate (we can all do that) and overstated your status a bit. No bigee, man. Really.

But acting like I'm some nonsensical maniac who has no wedding experience isn't really doing anything ;)

Bobby

sidenote - this is probably what I get for sounding a little too annoyed at first? I'll go back and reread ;)

[tim]

cards are cheap. Just buy a no-name 8 GB as a bail out backup or switch to JPEG if you start running tight.

Decent cards are cheap enough, I think that's terrible advice.

[tkbslc]

Decent cards are cheap enough, I think that's terrible advice.

I guess it depends what you mean by decent. I see a lot of people who think they need Extreme IIIs or nothing, and honestly, something like a PNY or Transcend basic card works just as good in 95% of the time. So I would call those cards both cheap and decent. Certainly reliable enough for a backup card.

[tim]

I guess it depends what you mean by decent. I see a lot of people who think they need Extreme IIIs or nothing, and honestly, something like a PNY or Transcend basic card works just as good in 95% of the time. So I would call those cards both cheap and decent. Certainly reliable enough for a backup card.

Transcend cards are one of the few that have error detection and correction on the card. Not even Sandisk Extreme have that.

95% of the time isn't good enough for wedding work btw, even for backups. If it can go wrong, it will go wrong, usually at the worst possible time.

[tkbslc]

Transcend cards are one of the few that have error detection and correction on the card. Not even Sandisk Extreme have that.

95% of the time isn't good enough for wedding work btw, even for backups. If it can go wrong, it will go wrong, usually at the worst possible time.

Probably good advice. Although I have had some high-end stuff die on me at the worst times, too.

[turbo212003]

If you're not a pro, and the couple knows that, I think the whole two camera thing is TOTALLY unnecessary.

If you're a pro in ANY aspect, it's necessary, don't get me wrong. But it seems unnecessary for a starter guy/gal who is shooting a free or $200 wedding to have to have back up gear. You pay pros for that peace of mind, imo...

Bobby


If you're a pro/non-pro getting paid, a camera breaks down, gets stolen, what are you going to say?


"Sorry I can't shoot anymore pictures, my camera broke"

Always have a backup, pro or not.

[bnlearle]

I think my point is being missed... I'm not saying for beginners to abstain from getting a back up. I'm saying, if you don't have one, can't get one, have the opportunity to shoot a wedding on a non-professional level, explain you don't have one (and the risk entailed), and the ADULT couple chooses to make the ADULT decision to book anyways... well I think we're being a little much to STILL say that it would be the fault of the beginner photographer - or that the beginner photographer should turn down the opportunity.

Yes, it's best to have a back up. Yes, if your camera breaks and you don't have a backup you won't be able to take more photos. But again, if you explain this to your grown up couple, and they make the decision to NOT go with a pro who would provide them with that security, that's their prerogative. That's all I'm saying ;)

[Roy Mathers]

Here's a little tale carrying on the theme of backups - I used to use the Metz CL-45, which was the ubiquitous workhorse of the wedding photographer. And - I always used to carry two. For those of you not familiar with this gun, it is a wonderfully sturdy, powerful and reliable piece of equipment.

Some years ago, I was doing a wedding, the reception for which was at a very large hotel complex that hosted many such receptions. While I was doing some of my shots, another photographer came rushing up to me in a panic, asking if he could borrow one of my Metz's, as his had packed up. I asked if he had a backup, and he told me that he did - but that had packed up as well! Needless to say, I lent him my spare gun.

There was a pro using one of the most reliable flashguns money can buy, and both it and the backup failed. Let that be a salutary lesson.

[benesotor]

Here's a little tale carrying on the theme of backups - I used to use the Metz CL-45, which was the ubiquitous workhorse of the wedding photographer. And - I always used to carry two. For those of you not familiar with this gun, it is a wonderfully sturdy, powerful and reliable piece of equipment.

Some years ago, I was doing a wedding, the reception for which was at a very large hotel complex that hosted many such receptions. While I was doing some of my shots, another photographer came rushing up to me in a panic, asking if he could borrow one of my Metz's, as his had packed up. I asked if he had a backup, and he told me that he did - but that had packed up as well! Needless to say, I lent him my spare gun.

There was a pro using one of the most reliable flashguns money can buy, and both it and the backup failed. Let that be a salutary lesson.

Well i'll pray my 580EX holds up then! But as i've mentioned, i've got a whole other Olympus system in-case.

BTW, i have 16GB on what i'd call 'decent' cards (Extreme III's and Kingstone Elite Pro's) and the rest are standard Sandisk (so not 'no-name')

[stathunter]

I am someone who shoots a ton - I did a few weddings this weekend and here is my setup. I have a thinktank pixel pocket mini that holds 4 cf cards -- looped around my belt and tucked into my pocket ---- it was carrying 4 Sandisk 16gig cards -- then I bring 3 camera bodies with Sandisk 16gig cards.
In my bag I carry a thinktank pixel pocket rocket with 4 transcend 16gig cards and several 8 gig cards.
I shoot mostly RAW and averaged filling up 4 16gig cards - and partially filling up one or two more. I shoot 3K-5K photos at a wedding.

Memory is cheap -- there is NO reason not to be over prepared with memory.

[Bobster]

i have 12 x 4GB in CF, i use perhaps 12-14GB at a wedding these days (20D RAW)..

you're taking 3-4 shots of groups for blinkers, and Aunt Maud who's a little deaf and slow, who didn't react straight away to your call of "Looking at me please"

and clint0914 take a chill pill, Bobby travels the world covering weddings, he knows what he's talking about! :)

telling people that they have to have 2 bodies is like me saying you have to have a 70-200 f/2.8.. ;) and not 70-200 f/4

i see why you posted the thread about camera bodies now Bobby ;)

[Roy Mathers]

telling people that they have to have 2 bodies is like me saying you have to have a 70-200 f/2.8.. ;) and not 70-200 f/4


It isn't at all - it's for backup. See post No 43

[clint0914]

and clint0914 take a chill pill, Bobby travels the world covering weddings, he knows what he's talking about! :)

telling people that they have to have 2 bodies is like me saying you have to have a 70-200 f/2.8.. ;) and not 70-200 f/4

i see why you posted the thread about camera bodies now Bobby ;)


Aaamm what's this comment got to do with memory cards?

As for my gear? I have better stuff than you so you better bag it. It's not easy to decide on gears when you are spending thousands not hundreds, get it?

Oh and by the way don't even get me started on the 70-200 f4 or 2.8 debacle. I chose the f4 for all the right reasons at the time I purchased it, sharp and light. I posted that thread just to get gear ready for low light conditions then I decided to buy one instead of trading for it coz my 70-200 f4 IS is super sharp.

Tell me if my 135L + 70-200 f4 IS is not a great combo with my two bodies for any condition within that focal range compared to a single , heavy and slightly soft 70-200 2.8 IS, I'd like your opinion coz maybe I'll go buy third party lenses in the future instead of Canon Ls

[clint0914]

bw!

Dang man, you really can't let it go, can you? It's funny because you say it's good to take advise people with tons of experience. I agree! So I called you out since you were acting like you had a ton, it was quite apparent that you didn't, and now you hate me :lol:

Really, I mean you no ill will. I've said a hundred times, you're probably a great guy who got a little too involved in internet debate (we can all do that) and overstated your status a bit. No bigee, man. Really.

But acting like I'm some nonsensical maniac who has no wedding experience isn't really doing anything ;)

Bobby

sidenote - this is probably what I get for sounding a little too annoyed at first? I'll go back and reread ;)

Bobby let it go dude. You are the pro and I am not, didn't we establish that a long time ago? LOL!

I was pertaining to Roy Mathers as a PRO to follow and not to you on that statement YES! Isn't that my right? Who are you to tell me what I should and shouldn't say? And if I had to choose on whos advise I should follow between you and Roy, well buddy, that's just too easy for me to do.

I'm not saying you have no XP coz well infact as your website and blogs go (Which I didn't check coz I don't need to and why should I?), you said you do, no contest there.

You just sounded like a little girl there for a minute coz a PRO won't even go to places where you've been with your loud mouth.

Cool?

Good.

Out!

[Bobster]

As for my gear? I have better stuff than you so you better bag it. It's not easy to decide on gears when you are spending thousands not hundreds, get it?oh yeah! damn, the gear is what makes a photographer isn't it! not the skill in using the equipment to hand ;) and ive put my 70-200 to a 70-200 2.8 IS and its just as sharp

Oh and by the way don't even get me started on the 70-200 f4 or 2.8 debacle. I chose the f4 for all the right reasons at the time I purchased it, sharp and light. I posted that thread just to get gear ready for low light conditions then I decided to buy one instead of trading for it coz my 70-200 f4 IS is super sharp.love to see an example of your sharp photographs

until you post a photograph you're just trolling on this board.. im done in this thread, and im sure Bobby is too..

[J-B]

Do you have a laptop? If so, bring that, a CF card reader, and a mini-hard drive. Upload to your computer, then drag to your external hard drive, and since you're double backed up, you can clear those cards. That's what I do (I don't clear the cards - but I do the backup on the laptop and the external drive).

Exactly, I do the same.
It gives me a safer feeling knowing it's double backed up.

edit: Damn Clint, judging people by their gear is sad. You even say Bobby isn't a pro because he doesn't use a 1D body... lol
Don't waste your time Bobby.

For me only the results count and looking at your website (bobby) I'm stunned. Some of the greatest wedding photos I've ever seen (seriously). Can't believe this whole discussion now. :eek:

[superstes]

For me only the results count

+ 1.

I try and compose my shots (they are not all technically correct), if I shoot more than 600, man, I get tired real fast.

Kudos to you lot who fire off 2000 plus.

[bnlearle]

Exactly, I do the same.
It gives me a safer feeling knowing it's double backed up.

edit: Damn Clint, judging people by their gear is sad. You even say Bobby isn't a pro because he doesn't use a 1D body... lol
Don't waste your time Bobby.

For me only the results count and looking at your website (bobby) I'm stunned. Some of the greatest wedding photos I've ever seen (seriously). Can't believe this whole discussion now. :eek:
Awe... cheers man :oops: Really means a lot ;)

Sidenote: Funny thing is, I just sold a TON of gear - of which was my 1 series :lol:

+ 1.

I try and compose my shots (they are not all technically correct), if I shoot more than 600, man, I get tired real fast.

Kudos to you lot who fire off 2000 plus.
I feel the same way! If you can get the finished product looking awesome - and you can shoot under 1000 shots?! More power to you! I've been making a conscious effort to shoot less where I can. My last wedding was 3800 (a nice drop from about 6000). But it might be important to add that my average wedding day is about 15 hours :)

But yeah, I'd LOVE if I could feel comfortable with shooting around 1000. Maybe one day - maybe not :)

[Roy Mathers]

+ 1.

I try and compose my shots (they are not all technically correct), if I shoot more than 600, man, I get tired real fast.

Kudos to you lot who fire off 2000 plus.

Kudos? I don't think so. It is just not necessary to take 2000 shots - get it right in the camera at the time and it's not even necessary to take half that or anywhere near.

[bnlearle]

Kudos? I don't think so. It is just not necessary to take 2000 shots - get it right in the camera at the time and it's not even necessary to take half that or anywhere near.
You can take this so far... It's not "necessary" to take more than the final 300 images (or whatever number it is a photographer delivers). You take more than you give to your clients, I'm sure. So we're all in the same boat there. None of us get it all right in the camera. I mean, when dealing with a creative process, the thought of not passing what is necessary seems odd. We aren't working on cars or punching numbers (a great example of work where you do what's necessary to simply finish the job) - we're creating art, are we not?

Two honest questions.

1. If there are so many great wedding photographers that shoot thousands of images (I can source a ton that shoot in the "unnecessary" number of photos if you like - but I imagine that won't mean anything?), who turn out beautiful/respectable/consistent work, continue to book clients, and their past clients are happy, isn't taking more photos than you take not a matter of "necessary" or "unnecessary" and just a different approach?

2. What does it matter when we work in an industry that only deals in end results? If the end result is good, it just seems quite odd to concentrate on something that means nothing in regard to the end result (as there are great photographers who shoot a ton, terrible photographers who shoot only the necessary amount, and vice versa).

Bobby

[tim]

Kudos? I don't think so. It is just not necessary to take 2000 shots - get it right in the camera at the time and it's not even necessary to take half that or anywhere near.

It's not necessary to eat meat or sweets, but people do it anyway.

[Roy Mathers]

But they don't get kudos for it!

[superstes]

But they don't get kudos for it!

I try to think about every shot I take, wipes me out after several hundred, I'm not that good though but I still think about every shot and try to get it right.

Anybody getting 2 or 3000 + and thinks about each shot gets my Kudos.

Clients don't care less how many shots the tog takes, they just want great shots, respect and kudos comes from us for a hard working tog working in a very tough environment.

[superstes]

Just a side note

bnlearle, your links in your sig are really cool, had a look through them extensively, very cool, a man I'd like to meet one day.

Sorry Roy, not seen any of your work to date.

[bnlearle]

Thanks man! I'm over in Europe a couple times a year usually (was in France about a month ago and will likely be back in Sept). I just had a photog meet up (http://bobbyearle.blogspot.com/2009/06/our-photographer-meet-up-in-oz.html) in Sydney and it was so much fun. Would love to do it in Europe one of these times and meet you!

[superstes]

Would love to do it in Europe one of these times and meet you!

I'm down in the the south of France on the east coast, I can easily get to most places in Europe so definitely put me on the list.

The meet ups look like a lot of fun so I think I'll have to increase my CF collection.

I'll join you on FB and twitter this weekend and we'll keep in touch.

Steve

[meganparkerphoto]

Great question! Doing my first wedding in August and was just wondering about this!

[benesotor]

Great question! Doing my first wedding in August and was just wondering about this!

Me too, hope we don't end up at the same church ;)

[mr_gir]

Just bought another 4gb card 15mins ago, come on here, see this thread and decide to poke around. Wow, forgot the popcorn.

Everything is so subjective but I would listen to the Bobby. He seems to know a lot but of course, it's up to you how closely you want/can follow his advice. Not everyone has a spare body or a boatload of lenses. Just try to make due with what you got.

Lastly, no disrespect to the other fellow but play nice, no one was belittling you or making fun of you. The whole guns blazin' thing was a tad much.

[silent]

4 x 8GB cards - filled em up last wedding...i think i need to get more.

[PhotoMatte]

I have to say, r_metzel's expression 'the spray and pray method' was priceless.