Dilemma: should I charge anything?

[Krapo]

I should start by saying that I'm not a pro. I'm just a hobbyist (or passionate, rather) and I earn my life in a very time-consuming job (70-80 hours a week during peak periods). So time is a scarce resource as I also enjoy spending my week-ends with my wife and kid.

I often take pictures at parties/events with my friends and post them on my website (with their consent, obviously). I do it for free as I enjoy the process. However, it takes me a significant time to select the good ones and post-process them (even though most of them only take 15/30 secs or so). I firmly believe the post-processing part adds a lot to the wow factor of my photos, and therefore I'm very reluctant to skip it in order to save time.

Now the sister of a friend has contacted me because she is organizing my friend's birthday and she is looking for a photographer. I'm invited as a guest anyway, and when she asked me in a first e-mail to take pictures of the event, I accepted. I thought it would be for free, as always. But I was okay to do it because he's a friend, even though I don't have much time these days.
But she sent me another message today asking me how much I would charge for the night. Hence my dilemma:

-on the one hand, more and more people tell me that I should charge for my pictures in general. This is a great opportunity and I wouldn't spit on the extra cash. Moreover, this would compensate for the time I spend on the pictures, taking them or post processing them. It would also somewhat make my other friends think twice before asking me to cover too many parties for free...

- on the other hand, this is a turning point. This means I must meet people's expectations, not screw up, etc. Even though money is not an issue for that family, I'm also a bit reluctant to charge my friend's sister. He's a friend after all.

What would you do? If I charge something, it won't be as much as a pro. But it's more the symbolic around it that worries me...
Also, I have the option of just taking the pictures without any post-processing. But obviously this is something I don't really want to do, as I believe this is a big part of the process.

Thanks in advance for your input!

[RDKirk]

You either charge a decent rate (which, given your low overhead would still be much below what a professional would really charge), or you do it for free.

Here is why:

If you charge anything at all, even for just expenses, most people will expect pro-level quality and will think they call the shots. They will not realize they are getting a "good deal." Everyone believes "He who pays the cost is the boss," and if they're paying a single dime, they will believe they are "paying the cost."

If you intend to call the shots and do as much or as little as you want, then you have to decide if you're willing to give your services and products totally as gifts. If you like them that well, or if it's really going to be that much fun for you (including the post-processing), then feel free to give them free. If not, then send them a card.

If you want any amount of money for your time and expense, you have to be prepared to let them call the shots. Getting a decent amount of money out of the job makes that a lot easier to live with over time.

[DDCSD]

I can't understand why so many people have trouble believing that their time and equipment are worth being compensated for.

She obviously thinks that your time, effort, gear and abilities are worth paying for, so maybe you should as well.

[SOK]

I should start by saying that I'm not a pro
...
I'm just a hobbyist
...
I often take pictures at parties/events with my friends and post them on my website
...
I do it for free as I enjoy the process.
...
Now the sister of a friend has contacted me because she is organizing my friend's birthday
...
I'm invited as a guest anyway
...
I thought it would be for free, as always. But I was okay to do it because he's a friend
...
I'm also a bit reluctant to charge my friend's sister.
...
He's a friend after all.


If you strip away most of your post, I think you'll find you've answered your own question.

Personally, I wouldn't use this opportunity to start getting into paid work.

[obnoxiousmom]

Im torn on this one. I wish you the best in your decision. I would in all honesty probably just charge a flat rate for a finished CD

[Asian Jul]

Charge a flat rate for a CD and be done with it.

[Karl Johnston]

If you strip away most of your post, I think you'll find you've answered your own question.

Personally, I wouldn't use this opportunity to start getting into paid work.
Hey that`s pretty cool ! look at that ! hehe!

[dekalbSTEEL]

Another option would be to set up a shopping cart on your site and charge for prints or downloads. ( I would eliminate the free download button on your site)

[badgerdid]

They could be asking how much just to be polite, hoping you will just say "its ok i dont want anything for doing it"
so the best option is as previous post, shopping cart and sell prints

[Krapo]

If you charge anything at all, even for just expenses, most people will expect pro-level quality and will think they call the shots. They will not realize they are getting a "good deal."

That's a very good point and I fully agree with you. When I said "not as much as a pro", I didn't mean 50 bucks. But probably something like 50% of what a pro would ask (due to my lack of experience and equipment).

Regarding the quality, I will do my best and I'm conscious of your point.

[Krapo]

If you strip away most of your post, I think you'll find you've answered your own question.

Personally, I wouldn't use this opportunity to start getting into paid work.

You're a journalist, aren't you? :)
Seriously, if not that opportunity, when could it be? I can only start with a friend. No stranger will spontaneously propose me paid work. It has to be someone I know.

[Krapo]

Im torn on this one. I wish you the best in your decision. I would in all honesty probably just charge a flat rate for a finished CD

Thanks ;)

This is probably what I will do, except that I won't skip the post-processing step. But I won't make an album either.

[Metalstrm]

It's difficult to charge friends or relatives, true... A few days ago I went to a bbq organised by a relative of my girlfriend, and as always, I took my camera with me. The relative had a little baby and I took a few photos of her. Nothing planned or so, more like playing around with the cute baby and taking a few thought-out snapshots. She liked them enough to ask me to send them to her. I went home and processed them a bit, because like you said, the wow factor often comes through pp. I sent them to her, and she just loved them and wants them printed. I am not going to charge her anything except cost for this one. Still, if she wanted to do it officially, as in, if she had contacted me to do it, I would probably have charged her.

[TheFloridaShooter]

I'd charge and flat rate and hand them a CD. Let thempick the pictures + pay for them.

[SOK]

You're a journalist, aren't you? :)
Seriously, if not that opportunity, when could it be? I can only start with a friend. No stranger will spontaneously propose me paid work. It has to be someone I know.

Haha - no not a journalist...if anything your current situation is very similar to mine, so I guess I read and re-read your post more carefully that usual.

To explain my thoughts;

I just put myself in the position of your friend. If I knew that you regularly took your camera along to parties and posted the results on the web for free (ostensibly because you 'enjoy the process'), I'd feel a bit....confused/upset as to why you'd picked my party to suddenly start charging.

You and I, and everyone here all know the reasons to seek payment for something like this...but based on the info you posted, I just sense that the timing (rather than the gig itself) is not quite right. I'd be more inclined to go along, have some drinks, have a good time, take some pics, and do a favour for a mate.

As for your question "if not that opportunity, when could it be?"....well....I don't know. I'd be angling for gig for a friend-of-a-friend, or something not as close to home...

I'm sorry I can't offer any real alternatives...but you did ask what I would do!

[Krapo]

Thanks Steve for your honest feedback.

I would normally do as you suggested (in fact, that's what I've been doing for a while) for any friend who would ask me to bring my camera to his/her party.
Here it's a bit different. I've been asked by her sister (whom I don't know), and her alternative is to hire a pro, for much more money. Also, my alternative to taking the pictures and spending my week-end on Photoshop is to enjoy the party on Friday and enjoy the week-end with my family.

I've decided to charge her and do this as professionally as possible.
I'll tell you how it turned out!

Thanks all for your comments

[DarksideTi]

Thanks Steve for your honest feedback.

I would normally do as you suggested (in fact, that's what I've been doing for a while) for any friend who would ask me to bring my camera to his/her party.
Here it's a bit different. I've been asked by her sister (whom I don't know), and her alternative is to hire a pro, for much more money. Also, my alternative to taking the pictures and spending my week-end on Photoshop is to enjoy the party on Friday and enjoy the week-end with my family.

I've decided to charge her and do this as professionally as possible.
I'll tell you how it turned out!

Thanks all for your comments

Kudos to you, in my opinion, that is the right thing to do. There will always be situations that deem shooting for free, be it portfolio building to close family shots. The tricky thing is to not let your work lose it's value in the eyes of potential customers. It sounds like the person who asked you to take shots, may have been looking for a "Deal", which is fine, but I think it's important to communicate the value of what they are receiving. Your time, editing skills and most importantly shooting skills bear value; don't be afraid to let people pay for the use of those skills. Even more so if it takes you away from your family and free time. By way of example, my wife's father is getting married, am I shooting the wedding for free? Hell no, am I charging my full rate? Hell no. I make sure they understand what they are getting, make sure it's treated like any other wedding I'd shoot and I also make sure they get an invoice with the full cost, then a "Gift" discount. Call me cold hearted, but the hours I'm going to spend shooting and editing and not with my daughters, wife or friends have to be compensated for.

[Krapo]

Kudos to you, in my opinion, that is the right thing to do. There will always be situations that deem shooting for free, be it portfolio building to close family shots. The tricky thing is to not let your work lose it's value in the eyes of potential customers. It sounds like the person who asked you to take shots, may have been looking for a "Deal", which is fine, but I think it's important to communicate the value of what they are receiving. Your time, editing skills and most importantly shooting skills bear value; don't be afraid to let people pay for the use of those skills. Even more so if it takes you away from your family and free time. By way of example, my wife's father is getting married, am I shooting the wedding for free? Hell no, am I charging my full rate? Hell no. I make sure they understand what they are getting, make sure it's treated like any other wedding I'd shoot and I also make sure they get an invoice with the full cost, then a "Gift" discount. Call me cold hearted, but the hours I'm going to spend shooting and editing and not with my daughters, wife or friends have to be compensated for.

I couldn't agree more.
There's no free lunch ;)

[Krapo]

Just wanted to update you after the shooting.
It went very well! I eventually selected ~200 shots from the party and the client (my friend's sister) was really ecstasic about them.

I'm glad I chose to charge her (not too much) as this makes the compliments even more important. Sometimes when I shoot for free and I receive positive feedbacks, I don't know for sure if they are genuine or if they're just a nice "pat on the back" to thank me for the effort. At least with this one I know she means what she says.

If you're curious to see the results, you can go to www.casualvision.com then choose Events, and "30 ans Adrien". Nothing spectacular, but I'm pleased with the overall result.
By the way, the theme of the party was "African night"

Thanks again for all your advices

[Metalstrm]

Good photographs. Congrats on the event. You had very nice soft light. Was it the weather? Any event like that, over here, you'd have to forget about it, unless you had diffusers or open shade.

[Krapo]

Thanks Kristian!
The weather was quite nice but the event started rather late (9pm), which made outdoor shots more difficult. I quickly cranked up the ISO (800 outdoor, 1250 indoor) and shot wide open (2.8 for zooms, 1.4 @50mm). Also had to use my flash inside just to freeze the moves.

If there's one thing you can't rely on in Belgium, that's the weather :) Or rather, you can be fairly confident that it will be crappy :D

[4event]

I couldn't agree more.
There's no free lunch ;)

same here :)

[DDCSD]

Awesome, glad everything went well!

[nicksan]

Now the sister of a friend has contacted me because she is organizing my friend's birthday and she is looking for a photographer. I'm invited as a guest anyway, and when she asked me in a first e-mail to take pictures of the event, I accepted. I thought it would be for free, as always. But I was okay to do it because he's a friend, even though I don't have much time these days.
But she sent me another message today asking me how much I would charge for the night. Hence my dilemma:


For a friend's birthday, I would not charge. Perhaps you can "gift" your services and a photo album to your friend?

I get that all the time. And it's worse. I have shot for my wife's co-workers so many times, it's not even funny. A few weeks ago, I shot a baby shower for her co-worker. I insisted that we use my photo services as THE gift, but then my wife decided to get her something from the baby shower registry also, it really p*ssed me off. To add insult to injury, she went and bought an album, made me print photos out, then mailed it out. Again...all for free. She likes to volunteer our time to folks who don't matter to us...like co-workers. She can't say no. I love saying no.:lol: So it's a huge dilemma each time. Really though, I am sick and tired of doing "pro bono" work. You give people an inch, and they will take a mile without hesitation.

I usually refuse these days unless I have some interest in it. The other week, I shot some baby pictures for free b/c I thought it would be fun, and it was. No problems. I also shot a baseball game b/c I can always use the practice. Some players contacted me for the files to send to their relatives and even asked me how much it would cost. I told them don't worry about it. I of course can afford to do this b/c I make a living doing something else.

It's a little selfish on my part too because it started out as "oh, it'll be a good experience for me" type of thing. Once I got paid a few times, I started to feel like I needed to be paid every time I took photos for someone else. (Other than friends and family) I guess that happens sooner or later.

I'm doing a wedding for another photographer next month. I was considering doing it for free, but he insisted I get paid for my troubles. Not much, but it's the thought that counts.

I'll probably shoot my best friend's wedding. I'm going to "gift" my services. No problem. No hesitation at all.

[DDCSD]

For a friend's birthday, I would not charge. Perhaps you can "gift" your services and a photo album to your friend?

I get that all the time. And it's worse. I have shot for my wife's co-workers so many times, it's not even funny. A few weeks ago, I shot a baby shower for her co-worker. I insisted that we use my photo services as THE gift, but then my wife decided to get her something from the baby shower registry also, it really p*ssed me off. To add insult to injury, she went and bought an album, made me print photos out, then mailed it out. Again...all for free. She likes to volunteer our time to folks who don't matter to us...like co-workers. She can't say no. I love saying no.:lol: So it's a huge dilemma each time. Really though, I am sick and tired of doing "pro bono" work. You give people an inch, and they will take a mile without hesitation.

I usually refuse these days unless I have some interest in it. The other week, I shot some baby pictures for free b/c I thought it would be fun, and it was. No problems. I also shot a baseball game b/c I can always use the practice. Some players contacted me for the files to send to their relatives and even asked me how much it would cost. I told them don't worry about it. I of course can afford to do this b/c I make a living doing something else.

It's a little selfish on my part too because it started out as "oh, it'll be a good experience for me" type of thing. Once I got paid a few times, I started to feel like I needed to be paid every time I took photos for someone else. (Other than friends and family) I guess that happens sooner or later.

I'm doing a wedding for another photographer next month. I was considering doing it for free, but he insisted I get paid for my troubles. Not much, but it's the thought that counts.

I'll probably shoot my best friend's wedding. I'm going to "gift" my services. No problem. No hesitation at all.

Too late Nick! :lol:


Just wanted to update you after the shooting.
It went very well! I eventually selected ~200 shots from the party and the client (my friend's sister) was really ecstasic about them.

I'm glad I chose to charge her (not too much) as this makes the compliments even more important. Sometimes when I shoot for free and I receive positive feedbacks, I don't know for sure if they are genuine or if they're just a nice "pat on the back" to thank me for the effort. At least with this one I know she means what she says.

If you're curious to see the results, you can go to www.casualvision.com (http://www.casualvision.com) then choose Events, and "30 ans Adrien". Nothing spectacular, but I'm pleased with the overall result.
By the way, the theme of the party was "African night"

Thanks again for all your advices

[nicksan]

Too late Nick! :lol:

Ha! I saw that after the fact!!!
Glad it all worked out for the OP.

Now if I can get my wife (self proclaimed "agent" for her husband...yours truly) to play ruthless agent (ala Scott Boras) then I'd be a happy man. A man with lots of pressure...but always could use the extra cash!:lol:;)

[The Stig]

Glad you decided to charge and glad it went well. That should give you the confidence the next time you are offered something and asked about it. Now you know you can do it. While yes, they were friends of yours, it was still taking time away from other things important to you. Nothing wrong with being asked to be compensated for that. Nothing wrong at all.

Nice job BTW.

[Krapo]

Glad you decided to charge and glad it went well. That should give you the confidence the next time you are offered something and asked about it. Now you know you can do it. While yes, they were friends of yours, it was still taking time away from other things important to you. Nothing wrong with being asked to be compensated for that. Nothing wrong at all.

Nice job BTW.

Thank you!

So, how was the run with the Fxx? ;)

[The Stig]

Thank you!

So, how was the run with the Fxx? ;)

I am contractually unable to discuss it lol :lol:

[Chris]

"I insisted that we use my photo services as THE gift, but then my wife decided to get her something from the baby shower registry also, it really p*ssed me off."Boy, can I relate to that. It makes me feel like my contribution had no meaning or value

[Chris]

Just wanted to update you after the shooting.
It went very well! I eventually selected ~200 shots from the party and the client (my friend's sister) was really ecstasic about them.

I'm glad I chose to charge her (not too much) as this makes the compliments even more important. Sometimes when I shoot for free and I receive positive feedbacks, I don't know for sure if they are genuine or if they're just a nice "pat on the back" to thank me for the effort. At least with this one I know she means what she says.

If you're curious to see the results, you can go to www.casualvision.com (http://www.casualvision.com) then choose Events, and "30 ans Adrien". Nothing spectacular, but I'm pleased with the overall result.
By the way, the theme of the party was "African night"

Thanks again for all your advices
I think you did a great job covering this event!

[Krapo]

Thanks Chris, I appreciate!