My first Live Band shoot, please critique.

[ChrisMc73]

I'm thick skinned, so please offer all the advice you can give and tips for me, so on my next shoot I can get some better shots...

You can get the details to each shot on the Flickr posts, I used several settings, I was just playing in the Manual mode. The only constant was I used a Canon 5D Mark II and my 24-70mm f/2.8 L, I should have brought out my Nifty Fifty (50mm 1.8 cheapo).

Let me know what you all think...it was hard dealing with some of the lights as they just rotated all night long from blue, green, red, orange, white...so not sure how I handled that.

Here is the full set from Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrismccord/sets/72157620633669562/

A few of my favs, my friend is the bass player so I took a lot of him mostly...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3351/3665028540_c688849bcb_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2552/3665014666_562c672c67_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3345/3664998530_8f6db6d4e0_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/3665066288_ab9d90e531_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3664256127_b1db8318aa_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3391/3665057302_b29a6241de_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2467/3665038696_49bed88417_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3365/3665017970_f0569f4e4d_b.jpg

[DwightMcCann]

People photography is about faces, even if it is a band or band member or a concert or whatever. You have not a single image here where the musician is facing into you or close by. Also, there is no EXIF (of IPTC) data so it's hard to make any other suggestions.

[ChrisMc73]

People photography is about faces, even if it is a band or band member or a concert or whatever. You have not a single image here where the musician is facing into you or close by. Also, there is no EXIF (of IPTC) data so it's hard to make any other suggestions.

I provide a link to the entire 180+ shoot on my Flickr account, it has some where the band is looking at me, and the EXIF data is there too. These were just samples.
And again, this was my very first shoot, I was a little bit timid about getting right in front of the band while they were playing, and the audience was watching, its a small venue.

[skifurthur]

I echo the comment about the faces. I like # 1 but it doesn't tell me a story about the performers. Sometimes it's tough getting good expressions but it's worth the effort.

[ChrisMc73]

You can't always get the band to look right at you while you're taking shots. Imagine if I were in a big stadium and trying to shoot a famous band, how do I get them to look at me then? I understand trying to get expressions, and like I said, look at some of the other shots in the Flickr link, I got the bass players expressions, these posted pictures were just a few samples.

[JoJo2fast]

You can't always get the band to look right at you while you're taking shots. Imagine if I were in a big stadium and trying to shoot a famous band, how do I get them to look at me then? I understand trying to get expressions, and like I said, look at some of the other shots in the Flickr link, I got the bass players expressions, these posted pictures were just a few samples.


Eh you'd be surprised, they tend to notice photographers, imo. Just gotta get up in front and theyll notice you. I've talked to a lot of bands after shows and they always ask me if I got any cool pics of em.


This is a pretty well known band that was in the largest venue in the area. With a blistering crowd and 5 other photogs he noticed me :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3405373389_d6b4ebc6ec.jpg

[thebishopp]

Unlike Dwight I shoot in some smaller venues and I get what you are saying about the crowd but he is still correct about faces.

As far as getting the band members to look at you that is actually pretty easy. Generally they will strike "poses" for you if they notice you are up there (at least in my experience and apparently jojo2fast's as well). Don't be afraid of getting right up there. Of course be sure you have permission ahead of time. Since I am shooting at the club owners request I can get right up front and sometimes right up on stage (towards the side and back away so as not to be "on stage" so to speak and in the band's way).

Don't want to hijack your thread but if you want to see some of my examples you can check them out at: http://wccg.zenfolio.com/f518965446 (I used to host them on flickr but I am slowly deleting what I have there as I switched to zenfolio).

[ChrisMc73]

Yeah I agree with you all, I guess since it was my very FIRST gig to shoot, I was just intimidated about hogging up the small stage space with me and the big camera. I will try more faces from now on because I do agree with what everyone is saying.

But besides the framing and poses I got, how about the over all colors, exposures, lighting, etc...how did these turn out in that aspect? Mind you I don't have a post processing workflow yet, and didn't do any post processing to these at all.

[thebishopp]

Yeah I agree with you all, I guess since it was my very FIRST gig to shoot, I was just intimidated about hogging up the small stage space with me and the big camera. I will try more faces from now on because I do agree with what everyone is saying.

But besides the framing and poses I got, how about the over all colors, exposures, lighting, etc...how did these turn out in that aspect? Mind you I don't have a post processing workflow yet, and didn't do any post processing to these at all.

for SOC I think they look alright. Could use a little tweaking but overall not bad imo.

[ChrisMc73]

for SOC I think they look alright. Could use a little tweaking but overall not bad imo.

Sorry, whats "SOC"? Thanks for all the inputs so far. I will take the critique information and try to use it to make some better shots next time.

[thebishopp]

Straight Out of Camera. Meaning just that... no post work at all. Did you take jpegs or raw? Jpegs tend to look better SOC because of incamera processing (depending on what your picture settings are). RAWs will usually appear to be washed out and unsharp.

[ChrisMc73]

Ok, good to know that acronym. Thank you. Yes I did turn off RAW for now and I'm using only JPEG, until I know what I'm doing, and since I only have a 4GB card right now, RAW doesn't give me any advantages. I guess with RAW, when I get more experienced, it allows me to tweak exposures and other settings I might have missed while shooting? Is that right?

[thebishopp]

I use a 4gig card and I normally shoot in raw. In fact most of my shots have been raw until just recently (I have switched to jpeg for nightclub stuff as it makes my work flow a bit faster). I shoot RAW for my portrait stuff as well as my band stuff (helps deal with the wildy varying lighting in post - especially when dealing with red floods, I hate red floods).

RAW would give you some pretty big advantages actually. I find it helps a lot with whitebalances as well as skin tone, exposure and overall control of how the final photo turns out (especially in cases where the lighting changes constantly)- reminds me of my darkroom days but without the time and messy chemicals.

[ChrisMc73]

Ok, but before I shoot RAW I have to get a software program that can handle RAW.
But I like knowing that I can tweak the pictures in RAW format, thats awesome.

[BJWOK]

my thoughts are this is not bad for a first effort.

a couple of things i can think of straight off the bat:

* watch the cropping of faces. instruments on their own can work, but generally punters want to see who's playing them!

* you took 160 pics??? that is a crazy amount for one gig. it looks like a low key event, so my thoughts are i'd be worried i would be pissing the rest of the crowd off by taking shots throughout the whole show. i could be wrong and you may have snapped the entire 160 in the first three songs...?

• shoot raw - you will love it.

[ChrisMc73]

my thoughts are this is not bad for a first effort.

a couple of things i can think of straight off the bat:

* watch the cropping of faces. instruments on their own can work, but generally punters want to see who's playing them!

* you took 160 pics??? that is a crazy amount for one gig. it looks like a low key event, so my thoughts are i'd be worried i would be pissing the rest of the crowd off by taking shots throughout the whole show. i could be wrong and you may have snapped the entire 160 in the first three songs...?

• shoot raw - you will love it.

Thanks for the feedback and compliments BJWOK!
The band had 3 sets, and I just stayed for the first two which was from 9pm - 12am.
I didn't go up there for every song, and was only up there a little while during the songs I was up there, but this is exactly why I was timid and worried about being in the way of the small venue crowd etc...but I don't think they would have cared if I was up there longer.

[egaertner]

I don't think 160 shots for one gig is all that much, I've done significantly more than that.

While the saying goes that a good photographer only needs to take a few shots and he'll know they were good, with live concerts everyone is constantly moving, the expressions are changing, and I feel like there is a bit of luck to getting everything to come together for that perfect shot. The more shots you fire, the better your odds of capturing those uncontrollable variables.

[BJWOK]

yeah fair call egae. i guess i was just comparing to what i shoot at gigs (prolly about 70 max). i agree with things changing all the time - and that's what makes band photography so much fun! more often than not i am limited to the first 3 songs, and i sometimes shoot 3 shows in the same night, so it's a case of get in quick, get the shots and get out. it also helps to know the band and the songs - you can then almost predict when things will get gnarly and hence the best shot...

[johnstoy]

I fill up most of my (6) 4 meg and (1) 8 meg CF's during an entire concert... Depending on which camera of two, I end up taking the most pics with... The larger RAW files of the 15.1meg 50D require more memory, thus more CF cards are filled... I usually shoot over 500 RAW snaps, selectively, during the stage action... 160 captures sometimes go by in a couple of songs... and usually the stage action doesn't get hot till the end anyway.

Skifurther and I shot a show together, and I recall using about 700 shots to sort through...

I reserve plenty of spare time for sorting and post processing, only while using the computer monitor back at home after the show...

Lastly, there are a lot more pretty good pics in your Flicker folder from the entire show, than what you've posted here.

[ChrisMc73]

I fill up most of my (6) 4 meg and (1) 8 meg CF's during an entire concert... Depending on which camera of two, I end up taking the most pics with... The larger RAW files of the 15.1meg 50D require more memory, thus more CF cards are filled... I usually shoot over 500 RAW snaps, selectively, during the stage action... 160 captures sometimes go by in a couple of songs... and usually the stage action doesn't get hot till the end anyway.

Skifurther and I shot a show together, and I recall using about 700 shots to sort through...

I reserve plenty of spare time for sorting and post processing, only while using the computer monitor back at home after the show...

Lastly, there are a lot more pretty good pics in your Flicker folder from the entire show, than what you've posted here.

Thanks John Story, should I remove the sample ones from the post and just leave the link for others to just browse? I guess my small selection was not representative of my entire collection?

[BJWOK]

wow! that's HEAPS of pics to go through!

so, i guess this post begs the question:

how many shots do most gig photogs take at a show?

might start a little poll :)

[ChrisMc73]

I agree, but lots of shots are great, how can you just shoot a few songs and be done?
I try to judge by the song if there will be good shots or not, just by the energy the song is creating out of the band. But even some ballads give you great chill moment shots.
So I would have to shoot through the entire set to feel good about any shots, myself.

[BJWOK]

more than not i am only allowed to shoot the first three songs. i find i can get what i need in those three anyway. (i then shoot long from the back of the venue - to get those wide stage shots) that combination of close and wide works for me.

[ChrisMc73]

more than not i am only allowed to shoot the first three songs. i find i can get what i need in those three anyway. (i then shoot long from the back of the venue - to get those wide stage shots) that combination of close and wide works for me.

I understand, if you are only allowed a few songs to shoot. That wasn't the case for me and such is why I had 160+ snaps.

[René Damkot]

Subject is quite centered, and exposure needs some work.
Timing could be better as well: Some are quite "static" now.

Not bad for a first time though.

On the # of images: I shoot anywhere from 30 to 300 images a band, depending on the lighting (quantity and quality) and how "active" and attractive a band is.

[ChrisMc73]

Thanks everyone so far for the feedback, taking notes.

[guitarman2977]

Pretty good for a first attempt. As others have said, faces are absolutely key. Depending on the light I'd recommend shooting with something faster than f/2.8. I've got some pretty good shots with the nifty fifty (when the focus is on). Also definitely recommend shooting RAW. It's all I use -- I think the ability to set white balance alone is worth it.

As with anything, practice goes a long way. For me, once I got the hang of the technical side, I was able to focus more on composition, capturing light on faces, etc. -- and ended up getting better shots.

I tend to shoot between 200-300 shots during an hour set if a band hires me for photos. In general I do NOT subscribe to the "spray and pray" method of photography, but when a moment happens where the faces, lights, action, or whatever is just right, I will shoot a burst and that usually gives me one really good shot out of 5 or so from that second or two.

I will say though that as I improve as a photographer I have been more selective about when to shoot and find myself taking fewer pictures and getting a higher keeper rate.

[ChrisMc73]

Which is why I'm shooting a lot right now, I am learning as I go...I will get better with more practice, I'm sure of it. Thanks for the kind words.

[johnstoy]

It's usually the musicians interaction during a performance that takes up a lot of shots... When the bass and guitarist team up to jam during a song, you want to capture their faces and instruments at the most interesting angles and lighting... So it is a time to take many careful and timely shots, with the hope that you capture the open eyes, a smile, flying hair, on both of them... That again takes a lot of attempts...

Then you put the lead singer into the mix, and you've got three variables, in constant motion... that requires even more shots, with the hope of getting all three faces and instruments in a complimentary way. (Mind you, there are only a few of these precious moments during the entire show).

That's where the # of attempts should increase... Otherwise, you're bound to miss the best angles... And checking the LCD viewfinder during these moments is a waste of time, as you need a computer monitor, to see their open eyes, and the detail of sharp focus...

Any more, that's what I often look for... more than one performer, that gives me the greater depth, to a set of photos for presentation...

I sort my concert session, by singles, doubles, triples, group shots, and full stage shots, of the band members...

Lastly, (at my local venue), I have not needed to conform to a three song limit, in over 50 shows... Instead, I work the last songs carefully, to capture the audience interaction, then the encores, and final bows (approx. total time of 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours, and even longer)... Usually by then, I'm nearly out of memory... If not, than I take pics of friends and the other couples attending the show, and email 'em.

There after, it takes me nearly an entire week to convert the best pics from RAW, and post process them for exposure, and colors, etc...

There are another 15 shows, I haven't added to my (SmugMug) web site yet... they were my earlier years results, with a lot less band interaction, and minimal processing.

NOTE: And don't forget to have enough memory to cover the opening act too... Usually three to five songs is about what they get... Just enough to partially fill a small memory card.

[freebird]

Takes awhile to find your style. I prefer tight shots. Faces are important to me, but thats just me.

If a band member does look at me and strike a pose , be sure to give em a thumbs up to acknowledge you appreciate it.

[ChrisMc73]

All good information! I will try this stuff next time. Hope for better results.

[johnstoy]

Well, wouldn't you know it... I forgot to mention a key ingredient in my approach to no flash, low light, indoor stage action... *I shoot "bracketed"*... With exposure compensation adjusted each way, a full F stop... I shoot in sets of three shots...

My local venue, has a patented stage lighting system designed by the ownership... They get quite extravagant with the lights, changing the color and intensity combinations constantly... So I choose *bracketed* in RAW... to give me the added edge of capturing keepers, of the ever changing colors, and stage action too.

[ChrisMc73]

Ok, in the manual bracketing is on pages 69, 97, and 174.
I don't quite understand it, yet, and reading those pages was a bit over my head.
Guess I have a lot to learn still on this beauty and beast of a camera.

[daimonpaul]

The biggest piece of advice I can give for shooting shows is - make friends with bands! That will get you places you can't get any way else. There is a regional independent hardcore/metal band from West Virginia called Stuck in Kaos (http://www.myspace.com/stuckinkaos) I have followed for two years now. I've made pretty good friends with everyone, and they always invite me to get up on stage with them to get better angles. How is this important? Drummer shots are particularly difficult to get, but I was able to get these of their drummer Chris because he lets me sit on the edge of his drum riser, and you wouldn't get them any other way:

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs33/f/2008/293/3/5/Chris_of_Stuck_in_Kaos_III_by_daimonpaul.jpg

http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs44/f/2009/093/0/f/SIK_is_back_II_by_daimonpaul.jpg

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs35/f/2008/293/3/5/Chris_of_Stuck_in_Kaos_II_by_daimonpaul.jpg

http://fc09.deviantart.com/fs32/f/2008/208/7/9/SIK_CD_Release_III_by_daimonpaul.jpg

One word of caution though, if you're gonna get that close BRING THE EAR PLUGS! Cymbals will make you deaf really, really fast!

[ChrisMc73]

Yeah ear plugs for sure.