Probably a newbie mistake but help?

[obnoxiousmom]

I attempted to take my flash off camera today. It did not work what so ever for me. No matter where I went in my home, the bottom half of the picture would be dark and the top half would be bright. It was like there was a distinct light line. I could point the flash up, down, it did not matter, I got this light line.

Here are some samples. Two of the shots were taken in a stair case. As you can see, the light line moved with my camera. The flash was in the same place both shots facing directly at her. When I asked her to try and get lower than the light line and it followed her down with the movement of my camera
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/lifeuntome/flashissuesample1.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/lifeuntome/flashissuessample2.jpg
Then we moved to the top of the stairs and into a corner. First we had the flash about 2 feet off the floor and aimed upwards at her.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/lifeuntome/flashissuesample3.jpg
Then with the flash elevated as high as my stand would go and bounced off the ceiling and we got the exact same effect.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/lifeuntome/flashissuesample4.jpg
I just dont get it. These were all taken off camera so why was my camera movement effecting them?

Here is a sample shot of what I got with my flash mounted to my camera and bounced off the ceiling. I finally had to do the entire shoot this way
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/lifeuntome/IMG_0767.jpg

[dpds68]

What were you using to take your Flash Off Camera ?

Some of the Wireless devices only sync at 1/160SS .

[rammy]

The shutter is only fully exposing the sensor at a certain shutter speed. Usually around 1/200 - 1/250. Any faster and the second curtain chases the first curtain across the sensor resulting in these kinds of images.

Slow down the shutter to its flash sync speed.

[obnoxiousmom]

the ebay wireless triggers

Where do i go to learn about shutter and flash sync speed?

[Curtis N]

Your camera has a flash sync shutter speed (X-sync speed) of 1/250. You can't use a faster shutter speed than that with traditional flash.

Radio-based flash triggering devices will induce a delay that sometimes requires a shutter speed slower than X-sync speed.

Your camera's manual lists the X-sync speed in the shutter specifications.
Look up "focal plane shutter" on wikipedia for a more thorough explanation.

[jh]

Your 580EX II has the ability to sync at shutter speeds higher than the 1/250 flash sync of your camera. Check the manual on using high speed sync.

[monty28428]

I had a set of the e-bay triggers once and found that different channels gave different possible shutter speeds 1/200 to 1/125 (no idea why...).

So try changing the channel and test it again or use a lower shutter speed.

[Curtis N]

Your 580EX II has the ability to sync at shutter speeds higher than the 1/250 flash sync of your camera. Check the manual on using high speed sync.Please explain to the OP how to make HSS work with Ebay wireless triggers.

I'd like to know, too.

[Gatorboy]

I attempted to take my flash off camera today. It did not work what so ever for me. No matter where I went in my home, the bottom half of the picture would be dark and the top half would be bright. It was like there was a distinct light line. I could point the flash up, down, it did not matter, I got this light line.

Common newbie mistake ... you exceeded your camera's sync speed. When you put the flash on the hotshoe, your camera knows it's attached, and the camera will force the speed down to 1/250 (or whatever your sync speed may be), if you had it set faster.

Taking your flash off-camera now puts the responsibility on you to make sure your camera speed is set properly.

[monty28428]

Her shutter speeds are 1/200 -- check the EXIF.

[dpds68]

Gatorboy , And they were all shots were at 1/200

[obnoxiousmom]

yeah, I had my settings set on manual of 200 and 5 so if its my shutter speed that needs to be right, its seems it was more than right yet I still had this issue. These ebay triggers suck horribly. Maybe I just need a little better trigger?

[Curtis N]

These ebay triggers suck horribly. Maybe I just need a little better trigger?Well, you get what you pay for.

If you haven't tried fresh batteries in the transmitter and receiver, that might help.

Try slowing down your shutter a few clicks to make it work.

[sandpiper]

I agree that this looks like a synch speed problem, however I am a bit confused by the shadows.

With a synch problem, the flash will be lighting the brighter part of the image and ambient alone will be lighting the darker part of the image. Yet, the shadows from the flash are clear in both sections. This is particularly noticeable in the third image, the one with the flash near the floor, where the shadow is distinct from top to bottom of the pic.

Surely, if this was simply a synch problem, the darker area would be unaffected by the flash - yet the shadow is created by the flash.

[tim]

Like everyone has said your shutter speed was too fast for your crappy triggers. Get some skyports (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505381-REG/Elinchrom_EL_19360_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slav e.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114), cybersyncs, or pocket wizards. Even then you might only get 1/125th, though I almost always get 1/250th with my skyports and 40Ds.

[alabama1980]

nevermind

[tim]

I agree that this looks like a synch speed problem, however I am a bit confused by the shadows.

With a synch problem, the flash will be lighting the brighter part of the image and ambient alone will be lighting the darker part of the image. Yet, the shadows from the flash are clear in both sections. This is particularly noticeable in the third image, the one with the flash near the floor, where the shadow is distinct from top to bottom of the pic.

Surely, if this was simply a synch problem, the darker area would be unaffected by the flash - yet the shadow is created by the flash.

The flash is off camera, that's why there's a weird shadow. It's a sync problem.

Shutter speed of 1/50th would've solved the problem, though as the exposure allows for plenty of ambient light you'd have a bit of camera shake.

[sandpiper]

The flash is off camera, that's why there's a weird shadow. It's a sync problem.



Yes, I realise the flash is off camera, I'm not querying the 'weirdness' of the shadow.

What I don't understand is that, if it is a synch problem causing the light from the flash to not cover the whole image, how is the shadow from the flash present in areas which aren't seeing the light from that flash.

Surely, the area where the shutter blades are blocking the flash wouldn't show a shadow created by light that isn't there :confused:.

[tim]

Fairly sure it's just a sync issue still, it's just a trickier one to understand. I think trial and error would help explain it.

[Curtis N]

Surely, if this was simply a synch problem, the darker area would be unaffected by the flash - yet the shadow is created by the flash.Good point. I also noticed that the lower part of each frame is exposed brighter than one would expect indoors at 1/200 f/3.5 ISO 200.

I'm perplexed.

[alabama1980]

Something else I noted was that the shadow itself is uneven. It's dark at the top, light in the middle, and dark at the bottom. Thats inconsistent with the shutter curtain.

It almost looks as if the flash fired a couple of times with a shorter duration before making the final correct exposure at the top of the frame.

Hopefully a solution will arise, because this has me kinda boggled too. It really just doesn't make sense. I would be very surprised if it's a simple sync issue. The images are just inconsistent with that conclusion.

[40Dude6aedyk]

Is the flash set to manual mode or is it set to ETTL mode? What does an off-camera radio-triggered 580EXII do if set to ETTL mode? Pre-flash still?

[tim]

Is the flash set to manual mode or is it set to ETTL mode? What does an off-camera radio-triggered 580EXII do if set to ETTL mode? Pre-flash still?

Not sure what it does, but it won't be what you want it to do. Manual only with standard radio slaves.

[gkuenning]

Sure looks like sync-speed shadows to me. I've gotten the same effect with Ebay triggers on occasion.

PWs are certainly a superior solution, but you ought to be able to sync the Ebays reliably at 1/125 and almost always at 1/250. I normally shoot mine at 1/250. Of course, I did the antenna mod, and installed fresh batteries. (Interestingly, I haven't changed batteries in over a year--the ones that come with the Cactus triggers are really feeble!)

[Gatorboy]

Any chance you had your flash set on ETTL and not manual?

[Jim M]

It does look like a preflash is wiggling it's way into the picture. Notice that there actually seem to be three or four bands instead of the usual two with just an ordinary sync issue. I have a certain amount of experience with eBay triggers, but not attached to my EX flashes. I only use mine for studio flash. Except for the multiple bands and shadows, it looks pretty much like what happens when the batteries run low. It starts requiring slower and slower shutter speeds to sync. However, it is pretty easy for me to imagine that a 580EX not set to manual and setting off a preflash could do this. The darker bottom band could be prior to the signal reaching the flash, which could be partially exposed by preflash if the timing was just right. You can see some variation in that very bottom darker band. In the first and third image, it looks like the bottom-most shadow is fading away, which would indicate very little to no light from the flash. The middle band could be the preflash, and the properly exposed upper band would then be the actual flash firing its maximum load. I don't think it's just an illusion that there seems to be a narrow darker band between the "preflash" medium dark band and the upper bright band. It is probably just the time between the preflash and the actual flash.

So recapping, my wild guess is first band - eBay trigger delay. Second band - preflash. Third little tiny dark band - time between preflash and flash. Fourth bright band - the actual flash.

To the OP (and anyone who wants to experiment), I hope you try this again making sure the flash is set to manual. You may have to back off the shutter speed a little to get rid of that first lower dark band, but it would be interesting to know if a preflash was the main issue.

[tim]

...but you ought to be able to sync the Ebays reliably at 1/125 and almost always at 1/250. I normally shoot mine at 1/250. Of course, I did the antenna mod, and installed fresh batteries. (Interestingly, I haven't changed batteries in over a year--the ones that come with the Cactus triggers are really feeble!)

Mine were reliable at home, but always failed at wedding venues. I had many misfires and sync speed was often as low as 1/60th, with good batteries and an antenna. Maybe I just had terrible luck.

[Jim M]

Mine were reliable at home, but always failed at wedding venues. I had many misfires and sync speed was often as low as 1/60th, with good batteries and an antenna. Maybe I just had terrible luck.
In the three years I've had them, my eBay triggers have been unbelievably reliable, all things considered. I think luck plays a huge role in success or failure with these things. Until I upgrade to something with much better range, I'm hanging on to this set even though they are starting to get a little beat up.

[Azzure_7]

I always get 1/320 with my 30d.
But only 1/125 with 5d.
You should try 1/125.

[obnoxiousmom]

Ill bring them out again and try with with a slower speed. I hate these triggers though as they only set my flash off about half the time and I have to fight with them to get them to set it off at all. Deffinitely upgrading as soon as I got the spare cash

It was set to M btw

[beano]

Ill bring them out again and try with with a slower speed. I hate these triggers though as they only set my flash off about half the time and I have to fight with them to get them to set it off at all. Deffinitely upgrading as soon as I got the spare cash

It was set to M btw

It sounds like you've been a bit unlucky. I received my V4's today, and although i've only been taking random nothing shots with them, they haven't failed once.. Apart from the flash going into sleep mode, which is REALLY annoying!

[Curtis N]

Mine were reliable at home, but always failed at wedding venues. I had many misfires and sync speed was often as low as 1/60th, with good batteries and an antenna. Maybe I just had terrible luck.I've been reading informal reviews and anecdotes on the various E-bay triggers for at least three years. They're all over the map, from super awesome to absolute crap. I also have first-hand experience with some.

The inescapable conclusion is pi$$-poor quality control. Some work great, others don't work at all, some give better sync speed, etc. ect. Apparently, no two are alike.

If you have a good set, consider yourself lucky. If not, well, you've learned a $40 lesson. Get some Cybersyncs or Skyports.

[tim]

If you have a good set, consider yourself lucky. If not, well, you've learned a $40 lesson. Get some Cybersyncs or Skyports.

Exactly, I bought Skyports a year or so ago, they've been flawless for me.

[dehoff]

Like everyone has said your shutter speed was too fast for your crappy triggers. Get some skyports (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505381-REG/Elinchrom_EL_19360_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slav e.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114), cybersyncs, or pocket wizards. Even then you might only get 1/125th, though I almost always get 1/250th with my skyports and 40Ds.

I have to use 1/160th with my skyports and 600RX's. I get an ever-so-slight amount of shutter creep at 1/200th. With my pocket wizards I can use 1/250th without issue.

[Curtis N]

Can anyone figure out what could cause the black area at the bottom of the first shot - right under the subjects's right arm/right breast?

[tim]

I have to use 1/160th with my skyports and 600RX's. I get an ever-so-slight amount of shutter creep at 1/200th. With my pocket wizards I can use 1/250th without issue.

I haven't used mine much with studio strobes, I use speedlites and get 1/250th pretty consistently.

[alabama1980]

Can anyone figure out what could cause the black area at the bottom of the first shot - right under the subjects's right arm/right breast?

looks like the top of the speedlight to me.

[40Dude6aedyk]

How about the in-camera flash going off and the off-camera speedlite? How was the radio trigger connected to the camera? Through the PC-sync port? Or to the hotshoe?