Breaking the 1:1 Barrier

[mblanton]

I want to begin a project doing some extreme closeups (magnification greater than 1:1). How can I get there with my 10D? Are there reversing rings, or tubes I can use? Here are the lenses I have to work with: 17-40, 28-135, 50, & 75-300. Let me know what you think would work best and provide the greatest amount of magnification. Thanks.

Mike

[PaulB]

The lenses you have are not ideal for Macro work I'm afraid - even using extension tubes.
Better would be a dedicated macro lens - the Canon 100mm, 180mm, Sigma 105mm or 150mm etc.
However even these will only get you down to 1:1ie. life-size. To get closer than 1:1 really means using a (very) specialist set-up such as a 50mm or 100mm (standard or macro lens) on bellows, or a lens such as the Canon MP-E65/2.8 which will give magnifications of life-size to 5x - it's not cheap though it does (by all accounts) deliver stunning performance, and is manual focus only and on the 10D would require manual exposure adjustment as the magnification is increased. You would also NEED a macro-flash unit (MR-14EX/MT-24EX) as natural light is just not enough at these high magnifications unless you are working in very calm indoor/studio conditions and a focussing rail to make the very fine adjustments necessary. Oh, and a good tripod.
Best of luck!

[jyrgen]

Stack your 50 reversed to the front of your 75-300 and you get magnification from 1.5:1 up to 6:1 (multiply by 1.6x if you wish, for crop factor). You need a macro coupler for that (a simple ring with male threads in both sides). Maybe also step-up ring, if the filter sizes do not match. You will have very short working distance, extremely short DOF, and as said, you need lot of light, good tripod, and focusing rail if possible.

[kraterz]

Here's how I do extreme macro. I use a couple of extension tubes. I have 25 and 12mm tubes. In addition, I use a close up filter. I've used this setup with both my 50mm and 24mm lenses to very good effect.

[rdenney]

I want to begin a project doing some extreme closeups (magnification greater than 1:1). How can I get there with my 10D? Are there reversing rings, or tubes I can use? Here are the lenses I have to work with: 17-40, 28-135, 50, & 75-300. Let me know what you think would work best and provide the greatest amount of magnification. Thanks.


As an engineer who designs to requirements, I have to suggest that you define your requirements. If you are shooting pictures of tiny bugs (a popular topic on this forum, so it would seem), you'll want (and be able to tolerate) a different setup than if you are making archival images of rare postage stamps, and that will be a different setup from making images for scientific purposes.

For example, flatness of field and lack of distortion (barrel or pinchushion) are a must for copy and scientific work, but not an issue for flora and fauna. Portability and convenience in the field are issues with flora and fauna, but not copy work, and suggest purpose-built macro lenses with extension tubes to break the 1:1 barrier. Working distance is important for both, but you want longer distances (and therefore longer lenses) with nature photography and shorter distances with copy work.

Macro lenses are optimized for close focus performance, and will be necessary for any application that requires a high degree of acutance and resolution. This is true whether or not you use use bellows or extension tubes. Macro lenses are much more than a regular lens with a really long focus helical. So, for copy and scientific work, you'll likely want a macro lens (either purpose built or by reversing) no matter how you break the 1:1 barrier. You may not need that degree of acutance and resolution with pictures of flora and fauna, and extension tubes might be easier to manage in the field than bellows.

Using a normal lens optimized for infinity with a reversing ring is one standard way to turn the infinity optimization around to a closeup optimization. It's a cheap way to get excellent macro performance (though you still may have issues with distortion and flatness of field for copy work). But electronic lenses lose their connection when they are reversed, and you therefore lose your aperture control.

Bellows give you the greatest control over image magnification in applications where the degree of magnification is critical. You can use Canon bellows and a macro lens, for example.

There are other ways to skin the cat, though, that cost a lot less. For example, you could buy any decent normal lens (50mm/1.8, for example) from an era before electronic control, and mount it on a bellows also designed for another camera and adapted to the Canon. Reverse it if resolution is really important.

Two examples: I have a bellows designed for a Pentacon Six medium-format camera. I took a Pentacon Six body cap, drilled a hole in the middle of it, and installed an enlarging lens. I use it for copy work on medium format. But with a $30 adaptor, I can mount that rig on the Canon. Everything is manual, of course, but when you want to break the 1:1 barrier, that's the price you will pay. The camera will still meter through the lens and set the exposure properly using Av. This rig is as good as any high-end system for scientific and copy work--it is optimized for close focus and is highly corrected for flatness of field and lack of distortion. The adaptor was $20, the bellows $65 on ebay, the body cap free, and the lens (an EL-Nikkor 105/5.6) was under $100 at a used camera store. So, I have a system that would meet the most exacting requirements for under $200, and it works on my medium-format cameras, too.

The second example I have not done myself, but I can see how easy it would be. Get a M42/Canon EF adaptor (less than $30), a screw-mount bellows attachment, and a normal lens with a reversing ring. I see Pentacon screw-mount bellows for $30 that would work fine on ebay. The Industar lenses from Russia in the M42 screw mount are Tessar designs that are well-corrected for macro work when stopped down, so with it you would not need the reversing ring. Pentax lenses in 50mm are another option, and when reversed would be outstanding. Both are easy to find under $50. Reversing rings come up frequently on ebay, too, for under $20.

Thus, it's possible to build a very usable rig even good enough for scientific applictions for under $100 if you are a little resourceful.

Rick "who doesn't always look first to Canon for solutions to special needs" Denney

[ron chappel]

The quick easy answer is to suggest the canon 65mm 1x-5x macro lens built especially for the job (with a price to match:))

The traditional way of doing it involves bellows which can give far more extension that normal extension tubes.The lens used can be allmost anything but reversed 50mm or wider lenses are best.
*later edit* i see the poster above has given some very in depth good advice on this method
Because there are no electronic connections it is easiest to use older manual focus lenses because they tend to have simple aperture controls (an EOS lens offers no way of adjusting aperture when disconected from a camera)

Or you could use the 50mm reversed on the front of the 75-300.
The benifits are low cost and the aperture and focus confirmation work as they should.
The drawback is vignetting -which gets WORSE when stopped down (huh?) ..in fact all reversed combinations i've tried vignette horribly.No doubt someone more experienced could give you better advice on this than me but i cant see how i'm far wrong(?)
-experiment with this yourself,it's interesting at least

Or you could use the 17-40 reversed directly onto the camera.Try it-hold it there by hand :)
This is an inexpensive ,good way of going past 1:1 - but does mean you lose all auto functions,including the important aperture control.
There is a way of stopping down the lens on the camera THEN reversing it but that means you have to focus at your chosen aperture .And because macro inevitably requires small apertures,the viewfinder is going to be dark

There is another version of this idea-the novoflex EOS lens reverser which allows allmost any EOS lens to be reversed with full auto capability-but costs ALOT (us$280+?)

[malcolmx]

i have achieved a high degree of close up with the 100 macro lens plus the novalux bellows they have the ability to maintain the electronic integraty between lens and camera not auto focus though you must use a heavy tripod and mirror lock up and remote trigger . focusing is done with the rail on the bellows . i have only used this on my d30 i have not used it on my dsmk2

[Jon]

(multiply by 1.6x if you wish, for crop factor)
"Cra^hop Factor" doesn't affect the reproduction ratio at all. Reproduction ratio means that a 1 cm object will project a 1 cm image onto the sensor at 1:1. That the sensor 1s 1/1.6 the size of a "standard" 35 mm frame is irrelevant.

I'd agree with Rick - pick up an earlier-vintage (manual) lens (macro or enlarging, by preference), an appropriate bellows and an EOS-to-whatever make bellows you have adapter as the cheapest alternative. You'll get much more flexibility and control than you will trying to stack or reverse your current crop of lenses.

[PhotosGuy]

Excellent advice, guys!

[mblanton]

You've all provided some great information and I am trying to allow it to sink in. I want the higher magnification for nature photography (bugs, flowers, etc.). For simplicity I like the idea of reversing my 50 onto the 75-300, but I would love to build a custom rig like rdenny described. If anyone has a link to photographs they have taken or the rig they are using I would love to take a look at them. Thanks for the info and I am going to keep reading about the subject and I will let you know what I am going to do.

Mike

[pierrot]

Mike, you're obviously targetting the most difficult : extreme magnification of natural objects.
- these are moving (by themselves like bugs or because of wind like flowers)
- they are 3 dimensional, and at very high enlargement ratios, the DoF is riduculously narrow

Good luck anyway, keep us informed and post samples! ;)

[Vega$50]

May I suggest you go here...one of the great macro shooters....He explains set ups, reversing, couplers. A good jump point to start on your road to macro.

http://www.mplonsky.com/photo/article.htm

[Mark Kemp]

If you want to get really reaaly big magnifications you could think about microphotography. I have never done it myself but I have seen some pictures by other people that are really impressive.

Basically you need to buy a microsocpe and a specialist adaptor that attaches the camera where your eye would go.

I don't know much more about it but I am sure a web search would turn up some useful info.

[MrKickalot]

If your subject isn't moving but a bunch of old stuff on e-bay. Here's what I bought:

EOS-M42 Universal Adapter $15 shipped
M42 Bellow $25 at the camera swap
Vivitar 135 f2.8 $20 at the camera swap
Russian 50 f2.8 (haven't got it yet) $15 shipped

The bellow is about 150-200mm long. I'll try to put some pictures of it and sample pictures on here in the next couple days. I got all of this because it was a cheap way to experiment with better than 1:1. If I like it I'm going to be in the market for some old Ziess lenses. And what makes this even better, this stuff don't lose value since it's already cheap... I can get most if not all of my money out of it on e-bay!

Just another opinion!!

[chemicalbro]

this thread on making a macro lens using an old FD lens and a body cap may be of interest to some
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/227149

I'm going into town on saturday to pick up an FD lens for £25 :) ... the guy at the local camera store said he'll keep it for me..... a body cap will be about 2 pounds...... (I like this CHEAP alternative ) :)