How to remove shadows in off camera flash portraits?

[NicD]

Hello everyone,

Recently i have been moving into off camera flash portraits.

In pretty much all of my shots there has been horrible shadows coming from the key light (generally my 580EXII) which will land on the background.

Note: both were shot with bare flash, until i get some brollies this is all i have to work with.

Example:
http://www.ndavphotography.com/photos/575720114_EzQAM-M.jpg

One way i tried to fix this is to put my 430EXII as a background light, although the results were not always pleasing

Example:
http://www.ndavphotography.com/photos/575714616_CC6im-M.jpg

What is the best way to get rid of these shadows?

With the background light i had the flash turned up way to much which led to it turning out a bit funny, if i were to hit the right exposure for both the key light and background light, would it be better?

What are the other ways to remove these shadows? (preferably in camera, and not in PP)

Thank you all and i look forward to hearing your replies :D

[theshape]

If you want to use your second flash as a fill flash, try firing it from the camera sides into the area you want fill instead of behind the subjects.

You can also use a reflector (off camera of course, using the light from the 580) to add a little fill as well.

I'm sure other people would have better ideas.

[NicD]

If you want to use your second flash as a fill flash, try firing it from the camera sides into the area you want fill instead of behind the subjects.

You can also use a reflector (off camera of course, using the light from the 580) to add a little fill as well.

I'm sure other people would have better ideas.

So instead of having it behind the models have it on the opposite side of the key light facing where the shadow would be?

thanks for your reply.

[theshape]

Yeah, sounds right. It might be a little difficult since the tree roots sticking out but you can use a light stand with it facing downward. Just get a little creative.

[NicD]

46 views and only one person nice enough to comment?

anyone else please, i'm trying to learn here!

Thanks :D

[Pixel Pete]

NicD,
I don't think the shadows, which I can't make out at all btw, is the problem.

If I may, perhaps you should be composing tighter to start. I'm sorry if that doesn't address your question about the shadows. But bear with me.

Do you feel the picture is too loose? Do you need to see their feet?
That takes away from their faces which I assume is what you feel is most important, right?

If you feel you want to work in the roots, reduce the distance between their beautiful faces and the roots by having them kneel or sit, perhaps? That's another way of "filling the frame"

Once you've established the composition, then you can start messing with the lighting. If you have 2 speedlites on stands, then have one on opposite sides, perhaps?

PM me if you like more suggestions. As it is now, I can't see the shadows you are referring too. Sorry

[Digital_zen]

If/when you get that second flash off to the side on some type of stand, you may not want it adding any fill to your subjects, check out a google search for "GoBo".
Gobo actually stands for "Go between" (I know, not a very good abbreviation, but I guess Go-Be just does not sound as cool and is also already the name of a desert, at least phonetically) and goes between the flash and whatever you don't want lit, basically a single "barn-door".
Also the other option of putting the flash behind your subject and getting the fill to match your main will work IF you can get them to match (you'll most likely still want the BG to be just bit darker for a more natural feel) but it would work, in theory at least.
One more thing, having gotten two speedlights and gotten those off camera you're well over half way there,...check out some the stuff over at DIYphotography.net, like this softbox. http://www.diyphotography.net/studio-photography-the-best-softbox-ever
I hope this helps. I can't wait till I can afford an ext. flash again, then it's just a matter of getting wireless, gunna skip the PC chords as my 350D has no PC jack anyhow (No PC jack FTW).

Also does the 430EX have power output control?

[timbop]

I've got to agree that I think it is a question of framing and not lighting. Making the model more prominent would definitely minimize the shadow. Try moving them closer to you (i.e. further from the tree), and the shadow won't hit the tree anymore. Better yet, use a longer focal length to get an upper body or head & shoulders crop.

[Karl Johnston]

What you need is a ringlight :D

[kibipod]

Bare flash is very harsh and 580 is a powerful unit. Try some kind of diffuser - cheapest DIY type - will do better job.

[bobbyz]

Move them away from those trees. Problem solved.

[NicD]

Thanks all for your replies guys.

Pixel Pete - good suggestion about them kneeling, i will try that next time i go.

Digital Zen - thanks for link, i will have a shot at that in the next upcoming weeks :D

Timbop - thanks for the reply, i tried to use the tree as much as possible because i liked the texture that it provides. I will give your idea a shot because i do see where your coming from.

Karl - want to buy me one mate?

Kibipod - as posted in the other post, i will try making a large softbox and i will also be looking into stands and brollies in the near future.

Bobby - why do you say that? Why move away from the tree? The problem isnt solved since i dont know where you are coming from.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

[Goshawk]

Bare flash is very harsh and 580 is a powerful unit. Try some kind of diffuser - cheapest DIY type - will do better job.
Diffusers tend not to work so well outdoors, you will still get hard shadows. I use a Gary Fong diffuser and it is no good outdoors does not matter what the DVD that comes with it says.
If you do not have a softbox or brollie(fairly large if you doing full length) go for a reflector. They are cheap and easy to make and works well. The wider you can project your flash beam the softer it will become. Narrow flash beams is very harsh for portraits.

[Goshawk]

I sometimes get ok results with just a piece of white cardboard taped to the flash, flash pointing upwards with cardboard reflecting the light towards your subject.

[NicD]

Diffusers tend not to work so well outdoors, you will still get hard shadows. I use a Gary Fong diffuser and it is no good outdoors does not matter what the DVD that comes with it says.
If you do not have a softbox or brollie(fairly large if you doing full length) go for a reflector. They are cheap and easy to make and works well. The wider you can project your flash beam the softer it will become. Narrow flash beams is very harsh for portraits.

Thanks mate, i will look into a reflector.
I would prefer not to use a home made one as i would prefer something that folds up easily and isn't a pain to carry around.

[bobbyz]

Bobby - why do you say that? Why move away from the tree? The problem isnt solved since i dont know where you are coming from.


Why are you getting these shadows in outdoor situation? The bg (trees in this case) as too close to the subject. And choosen trees are so big. You want to show the subject or the trees unless this is some famous tree.

[NicD]

Why are you getting these shadows in outdoor situation? The bg (trees in this case) as too close to the subject. And choosen trees are so big. You want to show the subject or the trees unless this is some famous tree.

I see what you mean now.
Now that i think about it i do agree with what you have said.

how do you think that i could have used the trees better? or just not at all?

[Lojt]

Get a cheap umbrella and shoot through.

[rockfordhx]

I have to agree with many of the others who have posted. I would move the subject away from the tree and compose a bit tighter on the subject.

If you want to keep the tree in your composition, then move the subject 4-8 feet from the tree so that her shadow falls on the ground and not on the tree behind her.

[NicD]

Get a cheap umbrella and shoot through.

Yep this is one thing i plan on doing sometime in the close future.

Would a soft box or umbrella be better?

I have to agree with many of the others who have posted. I would move the subject away from the tree and compose a bit tighter on the subject.

If you want to keep the tree in your composition, then move the subject 4-8 feet from the tree so that her shadow falls on the ground and not on the tree behind her.

Yep i will keep that in mind next time i go there for a shoot.
Now that you have all brought it up it does make a lot more sense.

Thanks guys!

[Karl Johnston]

If you want soft light - go for a soft box. Umbrella will create a spread, and although your high contrast work may benefit from that..if you are going for the soft look you need a nice large softbox (36" would be great)