Sally B Grounded....

[johndm]

I was looking forward to getting some good flying shots of our only flying B-17 in the UK this coming weekend.

Well European legislation has succeeded in grounding her.

Is this the beginning of the end for airshows in the UK..:cry:

http://sallyb.dcgservices.com/news_frameset.php

John (UK) but ruled by everyone else

[Cadwell]

Idiots. I vote she makes one last flight and bombs the hell out of the eurocrats in Brussels. :evil:

[Belmondo]

Obviously you're dealing with a new breed of bureaucrats who have no appreciation for the sacrifice of preceding generations. There is no more fitting tribute to all who died in WW II than the occasional flyover by an icon of those times.

I honestly believe politicians have no idea what truly pathetic creatures they really are.

BTW, are there any WW II-era Lancasters still flying?

[insomnia]

That is a terrible shame, I hope more people contribute to the restoration of these wonderful machines and preserve them for future generations.

[RichardtheSane]

BTW, are there any WW II-era Lancasters still flying?

There is still one, not sure if there are any more.

It is a part of the battle of britain memorial flight consisting of a lancaster, a spitfire and a hurricane. Truly one of the finest sights in the air when they go overhead.

[johndm]

Obviously you're dealing with a new breed of bureaucrats who have no appreciation for the sacrifice of preceding generations. There is no more fitting tribute to all who died in WW II than the occasional flyover by an icon of those times.

I honestly believe politicians have no idea what truly pathetic creatures they really are.

BTW, are there any WW II-era Lancasters still flying?

Indeed! Europe is screwing the UK from every front..:oops:
We can't buy food in Pounds weight anymore,
Petrol is sold by the litre,

Sunday was to be a special day for Sally B, after her display at Duxford, she was due to travel south and take part in a V.E Day salute over Southampton.

There are just two remaining flying examples of the Lancaster, one here in the UK, and one in Canada. The UK one is operated and maintained by the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, along with several Spitfires and Huricanes

[Belmondo]

That would beg the question of whether or not the sole flying Lancaster in England is also grounded for the same reason. It sure sounds like a lot of foolishness from my perspective.

We are very fortunate to have a wonderful air museum here in our area. The Palm Springs Air Museum has a few WW II-era aircraft still in serviceable condition, including a B-17. They still haul it out on a regular basis and actually sell rides in the co-pilot's seat for $300.

Someday.

[Longwatcher]

Idiots. I vote she makes one last flight and bombs the hell out of the eurocrats in Brussels. :evil:

I suspect you could find a few of us Yanks to get together at least three more and do a four ship up right with some P-51 red-tail escorts for that mission if needed. The good part is flak would be light. It is the enemy aircraft you would have to watch out for, but just remember you can fly a lot slower then they can, make em stall.

I really don't know how much longer these planes can be kept flying, but they are always in their own way more awesome then any of the new toys the USAF has to play with.
And because of time spend at the Reno Air races when I was younger, I can still tell a P-51 or a P-47 from anything else when they fly over, just from the sound of the engine.

I still remember watching a B-17 called "Snoopy" (named after the cartoon dog) racing and then coming in overall 6th place out of I think 25 aircraft. The winners were P-51, Supermarine Spitfire? , P-51, P-47 and a P-38 (not necessarily in that order, but all by less then a lap in front of the B-17. Now that was something to see. Especially given the second P-38 in the race came in just behind it followed by some more P-51 and misc other aircraft. I think all but four aircraft finished the race.

Disclaimer: No actual bombing by B-17's is desired, they are by far way too valuable to risk against such a worthless targets

[Belmondo]

One need only look at the list of EU nations to understand why there's no sympathy for preserving a flying example of a heavy tactical bomber. The only member-nation that had them was the UK.

Not even Germany had any, preferring to concentrate on multi-purpose medium bombers instead.

This (http://europa.eu.int/abc/governments/index_en.htm) is a list of countries in the EU. You don't see too many that can look back with pride on their participation in the air war that ultimately liberated most of them.

Well, then, why should England?

Grumble, grumble, mutter, spit. :evil:

[PhotosGuy]

This is a list of countries in the EU. You don't see too many that can look back with pride on their participation in the air war that ultimately liberated most of them. France & Italy were in that war? ;)
I suspect you could find a few of us Yanks to get together at least three more and do a four ship up right with some P-51 red-tail escorts for that mission if needed. We've got 2 right here! (YOU tell Mr. Rousch he'll need to wear "blackface") JOKE! Don't yell at me!
Disclaimer: No actual bombing by B-17's is desired, they are by far way too valuable to risk against such a worthless targets :D:D:D

[jeffherald]

That is very sad. I hope they can resolve this issue. These planes are best viewed while they are flying.

And now, for your viewing enjoyment, here are two pics I took in 1995 at an air show in southern Indiana (USA for you non-Americans ;) ). Sorry these are so poor but they were taken with a very old, very manual, Topcon 35mm with a 100mm f4 plus a 2x teleconverter. I love this camera though. My grandfather bought it new in 1968 and passed it on to me in 1987 (it still works). Anyway, I wasn't very good with it and these pictures are very under exposed. It was a bright sunny day.

B-17 on taxi after landing

B-29 Fifi (last flying B-29)


There was also a B-24, B-25, several P-51 Mustangs including Chuck Yeager and his P-51. Add to that many others from WW2 and today including an F-117 Stealth Fighter. It was very exciting to me at that time (even still :D )

[Belmondo]

I had an opportunity to see Fifi at the Reno Air Races. She's absolutely gorgeous, both in the air and on the ground. Must be an expensive bugger to keep flying.

[Cadwell]

That would beg the question of whether or not the sole flying Lancaster in England is also grounded for the same reason. It sure sounds like a lot of foolishness from my perspective.

I wouldn't have thought so... the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight is flown by the Royal Air Force. I suspect different rules apply to the military.

I have heard tell that the Lancaster's flying days are numbered over concerns about the number of "hours" on the airframe though.

[Cadwell]

This (http://europa.eu.int/abc/governments/index_en.htm) is a list of countries in the EU. You don't see too many that can look back with pride on their participation in the air war that ultimately liberated most of them.


Malta is an obvious exception. That little cross in the top left hand corner of their flag speaks volumes.

[johndm]

That would beg the question of whether or not the sole flying Lancaster in England is also grounded for the same reason. It sure sounds like a lot of foolishness from my perspective.

We are very fortunate to have a wonderful air museum here in our area. The Palm Springs Air Museum has a few WW II-era aircraft still in serviceable condition, including a B-17. They still haul it out on a regular basis and actually sell rides in the co-pilot's seat for $300.

Someday.

Thanks for all your replies..:)

The flying Lancaster here in the UK is operated and maintained by the Royal Air Force, so presumably does not need any private insurance.
Sally B is privately owned, and run by donations, as a tribute to the Americans who lost their lives here during WWII.

A pity that the rest of Europe seem to see this in a differant light.

Lets hope she can be got back into the air for the Memorial Day Flypast over the American Military Cemetery at Madingley on 30 May. This is undoubtedly her most important and poignant event of the year, when we pay tribute to all those young men who sacrificed their lives for our freedom, and especially as we mark the 60th Anniversary of the end of the War.

At present, this means having to find an additional £25,000 per year - that’s an astonishing £1,000 extra per flying hour, on top of the aircraft’s already extensive insurance premium.

As for The Palm Springs Air Museum, I visited there last year, but missed 'Miss Angela' as she was away for the Chino Airshow.

I will be visiting again this year, should be in Palm Springs again on or around the 23rd May..:D

[dewmuw]

I thought political discussion were out of bounds? ;)

You might like to read this - interesting and offers some views on bureaucrats - from The Daily Telegraph.

German works tirelessly 'to give war dead a face'




With the gentlest of touches Erwin Kowalke ran his fingertips along the tops of four tiny cardboard coffins. "My job is to give the dead a face," he said.



For 25 years he has been doing just that, unearthing the bones of soldiers who perished in the woods around Berlin during ferocious battles in the final days of the Second World War and trying to identify them.



In front of him, in the grounds of a German war graves cemetery, lay the remains of five RAF crew members in four shoebox-sized brown coffins.



The airmen's remains were discovered last year in a wood in Gerbisbach near Wittenberg, north-east of Berlin, during one of Mr Kowalke's many missions. The find followed a tip-off by a local resident who had watched on the night of March 24, 1944 as a blazing RAF Halifax plummeted to the ground before smashing into pieces.



Of the original crew of seven, two escaped, possibly with parachutes. In his detailed report to the Volksbund, the German war graves commission, Mr Kowalke, 63, wrote of the crew from the RAF's 640 Squadron: "I estimate their ages to be between 20+ and up to 30, one must have been heavily built. Another had previously broken his left shinbone and fibula." He even listed the shoe sizes of four of the men, as well as the make of their footwear. "Some of the crew members were flung out of the plane as it crashed," he wrote.



For Mr Kowalke, whose anatomic and forensic knowledge is all self-taught, it is all in a day's work. Since 1980, when he carried out his work illegally because the then-communist regime ruled that nobody was to have anything to do with the remains of a "fascist army", he and his network of volunteers have worked on the remains of 20,000 soldiers.



Even now 1,000 bodies a year are still uncovered in and around the sandy battlefields of Berlin where more than 100,000 German, Russian and Allied soldiers lost their lives. More than 10,000 are still believed to be there.



The Ministry of Defence is close to a final identification of the remains of the Halifax's crew. A spokesman said the aim was to bury the remains in September.



Mr Kowalke said: "Some bureaucrats in Germany find it tiresome and pointless having to deal with the dead decades after the war but I only need to see a grateful widow who finally knows the whereabouts of her loved-one after 60 years spent in the dark to know that the work is worth it.



"After all, one in seven war widows are still alive, while 1.3 million Germans remain missing in action."



The task of identifying the RAF crew was a relatively easy one. Often Mr Kowalke only comes across an engraved wedding ring when he is roaming in the woods with his metal detector.



He said all the soldiers he finds he treats equally, regardless of nationality.

[johndm]

You can hear a BBC radio report by using the "listen again" facility.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/l...ain/index.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/index.shtml)

Scroll down the running order to 07.42 am.