Which diffuser/bounce device do you use when you don't have a ceiling or white walls?

[TMR Design]

Recently I've been shooting many more events and some weddings. I'm using a flash bracket and also avoiding direct flash at all cost. Bouncing off walls gives me beautiful soft light that really produces beautiful portraits rather than those classic 'flash' shots we see everywhere. I'm getting pretty good at creating this type of portrait but my question is one that I'm sure is asked often.

When you don't have walls or a ceiling to bounce from then which device do you turn to?

I've run into situations with rooms that have dark mahogany walls and ceiling, mirrors on the ceiling, red walls and a variety of other colors and materials that do not work well for bouncing.

I still want to avoid direct flash because to me, that always looks the worst, and can even look horrible.

SO.... do you use the Lumiquest ProMax? The Demb Flip-it? Another device. I already know I don't like the Fong tupperware.

For those that shoot professionally, what is your preferred bounce device, and why?

[vadim_c]

Recently I've been shooting many more events and some weddings. I'm using a flash bracket and also avoiding direct flash at all cost. Bouncing off walls gives me beautiful soft light that really produces beautiful portraits rather than those classic 'flash' shots we see everywhere. I'm getting pretty good at creating this type of portrait but my question is one that I'm sure is asked often.

When you don't have walls or a ceiling to bounce from then which device do you turn to?

I've run into situations with rooms that have dark mahogany walls and ceiling, mirrors on the ceiling, red walls and a variety of other colors and materials that do not work well for bouncing.

I still want to avoid direct flash because to me, that always looks the worst, and can even look horrible.

SO.... do you use the Lumiquest ProMax? The Demb Flip-it? Another device. I already know I don't like the Fong tupperware.

For those that shoot professionally, what is your preferred bounce device, and why?
"Bouncing device" by definition means "bounce". If there is nothing to bounce from there is no bounce. So in order to still bounce you need to bring the "wall" with you. It can be a screen, umbrella, softbox. They work well but difficult to handle without an assistant.

[TMR Design]

"Bouncing device" by definition means "bounce". If there is nothing to bounce from there is no bounce. So in order to still bounce you need to bring the "wall" with you. It can be a screen, umbrella, softbox. They work well but difficult to handle without an assistant.

Yes but that is why I asked about the Lumiquest Promax and Demb Flip-it. They both offer the ability to bounce into them. I understand what bounce means. The Promax has a 'ceiling' and the Flip-it has an adjustable bounce card of sorts.

Many pros work without assistants holding accessories. I'm interested in hearing from those that are shooting these events and what they do in these specific situations.

[form]

When there's nothing at all to bounce off of, I resort to either handheld umbrella or handheld softbox along the lines of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Portable-Flash-Softbox-for-Nikon-Canon-Speedlight_W0QQitemZ360109697448QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53d835e9a8&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1234%7C 293%3A1%7C294%3A50

If it's during the reception I will just grab a stand with umbrella and flash already attached and bring it over for whatever group shot is requested.

If there's something to bounce off but it's distant, sometimes upping ISO and opening up a fast lens will still get the shot.

I have seen things like this on some occasions, but as far as I'm concerned no flash diffuser that fits while the flash is on-camera does an adequate job of light diffusion: http://cgi.ebay.com/Flash-Softbox-diffuser-for-Canon-Minolta-Sony-Metz_W0QQitemZ270321372750QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamer a_Flash_Accessories?hash=item3ef068ce4e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1234%7C 293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[TMR Design]

When there's nothing at all to bounce off of, I resort to either handheld umbrella or handheld softbox along the lines of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Portable-Flash-Softbox-for-Nikon-Canon-Speedlight_W0QQitemZ360109697448QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53d835e9a8&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1234%7C 293%3A1%7C294%3A50

If it's during the reception I will just grab a stand with umbrella and flash already attached and bring it over for whatever group shot is requested.

If there's something to bounce off but it's distant, sometimes upping ISO and opening up a fast lens will still get the shot.

I have seen things like this on some occasions, but as far as I'm concerned no flash diffuser that fits while the flash is on-camera does an adequate job of light diffusion: http://cgi.ebay.com/Flash-Softbox-diffuser-for-Canon-Minolta-Sony-Metz_W0QQitemZ270321372750QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamer a_Flash_Accessories?hash=item3ef068ce4e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1234%7C 293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Thanks for the response. What happens when you're shooting on-the-fly and there isn't time or perhaps no space to setup a light stand, softbox or umbrella and you're working alone. I'm sure situations like that come up and it's just not practical or possible to set any additional gear up.

I understand that none of those bounce card type devices are increasing the size of the light source and won't give you the same light as that of a softbox or umbrella but are you saying that no working pros are using them? Is it just amateurs or that people are buying into the hype and they don't work?

[form]

I work alone all the time. If I have no time or space for light stands/etc, my solutions are to look for any object to bounce off of, and step up ISO and open aperture if needed. Colored walls are acceptable, including and especially brown or orange - they bounce off a nice orange-cast light. I can, have and do open umbrellas in limited spaces, such as inside a limo. As a last resort, I also may use on or off-camera flash and bounce off a white reflector in such a tight space.

Plenty of working pros use on-flash diffusers (I've seen the stofen omnibounces most often, followed by mini-softboxes), but I do not. I used a lightsphere early in my wedding days, but I moved pretty quickly to using bounce and umbrella-diffused flash, because I don't like anything that will produce undesirable specular highlights on faces, or anything that produces distinct, constrasty shadows. Furthermore, I really like side lighting, loop lighting and backlighting, and those can't be created with on-camera flash diffusers.

[TMR Design]

Thanks again. That's good info.

[form]

It's the way I prefer it; others with more experience may prefer different things that work even better than what I do. I've only been doing weddings for just over a year.

[Joelene]

I use my fong dong!! I have the Clear, Gary Fong Lightsphere. I have been doing weddings for years and have never brought extra lights / stands / softboxes.. Honestly if it doesn't fit in my tiny little lunch box turned camera bag, I don't take it.

http://flashdiffuser.com/

[tim]

I use a flash in a small soft box held by my asssistant triggered with radio slaves. Or ambient.

[TMR Design]

Hi Tim,

I work by myself so whatever I end up doing has to be convenient enough for me to setup and move easily.

[tim]

If you have nothing to bounce from then use direct flash if you must have flash. Diffusers work by increasing the size of the light source, and the difference between the size of the flash head and even five times the size of the flash head is insignificant unless your subject is really close.

[form]

Getting ready and reception are different situations from the ceremony. Ceremony needs a lighter setup, but reception and getting ready can easily stand a portable flash and softbox setup. For getting ready, I frequently put flashes around the room to get some directional light and ambient fill. When I do it right ( by my standards), it comes out something like this:

http://www.resolutionplan.com/Joey/Mar7_09/IMG_9338_POTN.jpg

[kay188]

Bounce off a person.

Have a friend/assistant wear a white shirt or hold a large white board.
That in my eyes, is just like a wall.

When ceilings were inefficient for me to bounce, I made a DIY bounce card, rubber banded it to flash, and had it tilt downwards towards subject. Worked pretty awesome.

[Jackie8o4]

Gary Fong! I have have the clouded diffuser. I've found it works great!
If you don't have the $$ attaching an index card to create a bounce is great!

[smorter]

I use the surroundings to bounce. There is ALWAYS something to bounce off. Worst case scenario you can turn the camera upside down and bounce off yourself (have never had to resort to this)

Yes but that is why I asked about the Lumiquest Promax and Demb Flip-it. They both offer the ability to bounce into them. I understand what bounce means. The Promax has a 'ceiling' and the Flip-it has an adjustable bounce card of sorts.


What Vadim_c is saying is that these devices require a bouncing source to work properly. Flip Its and Lumiquests etc only provide forward fill to supplement the main bounce. If you can't bounce, then it is just providing forward fill...in which case why not just use direct flash? It will be the same result and cheaper.

I've run into situations with rooms that have dark mahogany walls and ceiling, mirrors on the ceiling, red walls and a variety of other colors and materials that do not work well for bouncing.

All these are irrelevant factors that can be overcomed imo, I'll show you some examples of what you mention:

1. Gold Ceiling with Textured Patterns and Mirrors on Walls

http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p1035398598-3.jpg

Here you can simply just apply FEC +1 1/3 or so, and apply WB correction in Post. The only downside is the gold ceiling looks silver after colour correction, but I reckon it looks better than what it looks like in real life

2. Bouncing off Red Walls

http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p457224099-3.jpg

This just requires some WB correction in RAW. Terrible photo (was a test shot) but the best example of bouncing off a red wall I have. The actual wall was crimson red (not in photo). RAW can handle colour shifts like this

3. "a variety of other colors and materials that do not work well for bouncing."

The first shot below sets the scene of what was around (notice the lack of "white walls" and "white ceilings" and also those stupid spotlights that made ambient light photography unfeasible). I was standing where indicated below but further back. I also included 3 sample shots of what I took on the night (apologies I don't usually do fashion and sucked at it :D but anyway I thought the light was very soft even though you would think you can't bounce in such situations - but you can)

Scene + Sample Shots from the scene (I stood futher back than where indicated (I was using a 70-200 f/4 lens so was quite far back)
http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p383110347-5.jpg

4. Peach/Orangy Coloured Ceilings
http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p369632117-3.jpg

Again, just correct WB in RAW

[TMR Design]

I use the surroundings to bounce. There is ALWAYS something to bounce off. Worst case scenario you can turn the camera upside down and bounce off yourself (have never had to resort to this)



What Vadim_c is saying is that these devices require a bouncing source to work properly. Flip Its and Lumiquests etc only provide forward fill to supplement the main bounce. If you can't bounce, then it is just providing forward fill...in which case why not just use direct flash? It will be the same result and cheaper.



All these are irrelevant factors that can be overcomed imo, I'll show you some examples of what you mention:

1. Gold Ceiling with Textured Patterns and Mirrors on Walls

http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p1035398598-3.jpg

Here you can simply just apply FEC +1 1/3 or so, and apply WB correction in Post. The only downside is the gold ceiling looks silver after colour correction, but I reckon it looks better than what it looks like in real life

2. Bouncing off Red Walls

http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p457224099-3.jpg

This just requires some WB correction in RAW. Terrible photo (was a test shot) but the best example of bouncing off a red wall I have. The actual wall was crimson red (not in photo). RAW can handle colour shifts like this

3. "a variety of other colors and materials that do not work well for bouncing."

The first shot below sets the scene of what was around (notice the lack of "white walls" and "white ceilings" and also those stupid spotlights that made ambient light photography unfeasible). I was standing where indicated below but further back. I also included 3 sample shots of what I took on the night (apologies I don't usually do fashion and sucked at it :D but anyway I thought the light was very soft even though you would think you can't bounce in such situations - but you can)

Scene + Sample Shots from the scene (I stood futher back than where indicated (I was using a 70-200 f/4 lens so was quite far back)
http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p383110347-5.jpg

4. Peach/Orangy Coloured Ceilings
http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p369632117-3.jpg

Again, just correct WB in RAW

Thank you. I appreciate the sample shots and explanation.

[tim]

Gary Fong! I have have the clouded diffuser. I've found it works great!
If you don't have the $$ attaching an index card to create a bounce is great!

The Fongfong is an ingenious way to separate people who don't understand light from their money.

[sdsviet]

how about those bounce cards from abetterbouncecard.com. not affiliated with them at all. i just find them to be pretty useful and getting the right type of bounce needed. also i have heard of people shooting with one hand and have the other hand with a monopod with flash and umbrella on it. that way u can move the light however u pls.

[SoccerRef]

I have found that my 12 year old son is better than the best light stand money can buy.

He responds to voice commands (raise the flash, lower the flash, move it right/left, etc.), and when I am separated from my flash by distance he can give me feedback.

I've told my "light stand" that if it ever gives me back talk, I'll get a new one. Over time, he'll cost more than a metal light stand, but My "light stand" can also carry my bag and change a lens if I need it to!

[TMR Design]

I have found that my 12 year old son is better than the best light stand money can buy.

He responds to voice commands (raise the flash, lower the flash, move it right/left, etc.), and when I am separated from my flash by distance he can give me feedback.

I've told my "light stand" that if it ever gives me back talk, I'll get a new one. Over time, he'll cost more than a metal light stand, but My "light stand" can also carry my bag and change a lens if I need it to!

It's great if you have someone to give you a hand. I work by myself so many of the options involving an assistant are not available to me.

[SoccerRef]

It's great if you have someone to give you a hand. I work by myself so many of the options involving an assistant are not available to me.

I understand. I was going to offer the following, but my phone rang and I had to cut my previous post short...:rolleyes:

Gary Fong's diffusers basically spread the light from your flash in circle all around you. I know people who swear by the thing, but I find it rather wasteful.

I use a DIY diffuser that works very well. It is basically two pieces of black foam with a plastic needlepoint sheet sandwiched between them. (The plastic needlepoint fabric provides rigidity). I then have three different "liners" that I use. One is white, one is gold and one is silver. I can change between them very easily as they simply velcro to the black foam "frame". It looks something like the one being sold on this site (http://www.litegenius.com/).

It looks a little bulky, but it works great. I made mine with three interchangable liners for less than $10.00. They charge $35-$50 depending on size on that site, and you only get a white diffuser. I have found the gold one works very well with darker skinned and well tanned people, and the silver one throws more light than the white one.

I like it because it diffuses 100% of the light from my flash, so people behind me aren't blinded by the flash. It also effectively raises the point from which the flash is being spread by another 8 inches. If I am getting too much flash, I just angle it toward the back a little more, if I need more light, I angle it forward.

The ONLY issue with it is that is pretty much a sail and on a windy day outdoors it is more of a hindrance than a help. You might get a few funny looks, but when they see the photos, they won't remember the sail on top of your camera. (And frankly, it isn't much more bulky than an on camera soft box.)

As with anything, some like it and some don't. For me, it works better than anything I have tried. And it was worth the risk. If I didn't like it, I was only out $10.00!

Hope this post is a little more helpful...;)

EDIT: Look at this site (http://super.nova.org/DPR/DIY01/) for actual directions on how to do it!

[PhotoMatte]

I use the Gary Fong in large rooms. The rest of the time I bounce off whatever wall is available. I shoot in RAW and can always find something in the frame, when I'm using Lightroom, to fix the white balance if I have to. Not desirable, of course, but much more so than using deer-in-the-headlights direct flash. I, too, rarely use an assistant. I have asked wedding guests to hold a reflector sometimes, and then I can bounce my flash into that. You have to make sure such a guest is willing to do so, of course:-)

[PhotoMatte]

Also, whenever someone asks a really great question about flash, I always refer them to this invaluable site:
http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/

[TMR Design]

Also, whenever someone asks a really great question about flash, I always refer them to this invaluable site:
http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/

Thanks. I have read and still do read Neil's web site. I correspond with him often in email as well. He's very good at what he does and has given me a lot of great information and help regarding flash and flash techniques.

[F4 Cyborg]

At first I didn't like the fong-o-sphere (lightsphere clear) for reason's mentioned above "blasting the guest behind me" then it dawned on me I could fix that with a white card.
I have a white card that I set inside that covers the back have of the sphere. I have a tinfoil covered card I put inside when I want to blast more light forward outside. IF i want more light off the ceiling I take it's cap off. Do I use it the entire time. Nope. Sometimes I will use my hand to shoot warm light forward. My favorite bounce is a 3 x 5 solid white card on both side's. I can shape it to direct light as I think I need it. I put notes on the side I see to remind me of things I know I will forget. Scotch tape holds it in place and both items are cheap. I use a bracket by RRS and an off shoe cord.
Just upgraded to D mkIII's and 580 exII's from 5D's and 550 ex's so my lighting may change a great deal. ( but until I get the learning curve on the mkIII's So that I can adjust them on the fly without having to look ) the old setup is still what I use.
One thing I do like about the fong-o-sphere is that if you manually adjust your flash as I do most of the time, you can point it forward (with cap on) and get round catch light instead of squarish. Want a really hot light going forward put tin foil all the way around the inside of it point it where you want it o go, leave the top off and be careful you do not blind someone. (flash canon) pun intended. Long distance flash.

[PhotoMatte]

man do i wish i'd never sold my 550 EXs! i too use the 580 EX IIs now, and the only thing I like better about them is the one-button swivel. the 550 had greater range and was much easier to use as a slave or main. but...i've gotten used to my 580s so i will stick with them. good idea about the 3x5 card. i wonder if a 5x8 card would be too big...

[F4 Cyborg]

5x8 outa work I just like the 3x5's cause I can put them in my pocket. If I don't use one on the flash, I still keep my notes on them to remind me of who what and where along with some names of the guests the bride or groom direct me to. Or the type of shot I want to do that fits in with the couples hobbies, likes and such.

I wouldn't mind having a self moving portable light stand that works for cheese burgers and follows instructions without fail'

As for the 550's I have four 2 of which I purchased when they hit the shelf and 2 I grabbed off the net couple years ago before they had the bugs worked outa the 580's.
All of them still work but I am careful with my equipment. I use it hard but I don't abuse it.

Had a couple of Q's that I loaned out and never made there way back.

[Peacefield]

I use the homemade foam light scoop, very similar to what SoccerRef is pointing you to. It's my light modifier of last resort, but is inifinitely better than direct and only costs about $3 plus 10 minutes to make. Real happy with mine; again, though, as a last resort.

[Peacefield]

When I do it right ( by my standards), it comes out something like this:

Hey, Joey; a little OT, but I've got to comment on that photo. The light, color, angle; a very nice take on what has become a tired standard shot. Extremely well done.

[jra]

Bounce off a person.

Have a friend/assistant wear a white shirt or hold a large white board.
That in my eyes, is just like a wall.


Or....just use the bride and that big ole white wedding dress as a giant reflector ;)